Using codeine/GFJ prior to opium/morphine use as a booster?

[Ethyl]

Codeine as most swiyers know is metabolized by enzymes p450 2d6, and it saturates this enzyme at dosages of around 400mgs for most ppl, meaning that there is no more enzyme available to convert more codeine into morphine.

But it happens that this enzyme is also responsable for degrading morphine into inactives metabolites..

So only could use codeine as a p450 2d6 enzyme inhibitor for extending duration/peak effects of morphine.

And if one added GrapeFruit Juice beforehand that would imply also p450 3a4 inhibition, also extending duration/peak effects of morphine.

So for boosting one could use GFJ 3 hours before the opium/morphine and use codeine 1 hour before.

[samuraigecko]

Yes it does metabolize in that way. However as has been stated in other threads Morphine and opiates of the kind bond to endorphin receptors making their effects. Once the charge at the bond site has been used the opiate moves on allowing another to attach (since the system is flooded with opiates). In this way the opiate mimics an endorphin called endomorphin. Once the opiate is "used" it is useless and the next opiate attaches. Therefor all one would be left with is a bunch of useless and used opiates with no bonding charge left floating around in ones system.

The idea of potentiation is to inhibit the enzyme so that useful opiates are still available in the system (as some of those end up discarded by the system also). The inhibitation of this enzyme allows the opiate to stay in the system and gives it a "second chance" to bind to a receptor.

If codeine were used in such a way (not recomended since codeine can produce some nasty side effects, especially after the ceiling point has been reached) it may work to a point but the codeine content in the PT (which can be fairly high already) can take one past the point of the ceiling effect and produce a codeine OD or at very least some nasty side effects. Since the enzyme would be too busy with the codeine, the rest of the codeine and other opiates could not be metabolized and would therefor wander around uselessly in the system.

If GFJ were used first then the enzyme would already be inhibited and therefor the pre-used codeine would not be metabolized into morphine in the first place.

... " But it happens that this enzyme is also responsable for degrading morphine into inactives metabolites.. " ....

That is true, however they are talking about morphine which is already inactive since it binds to the site and the molecule looses charge and is no longer able to bind to a site. This all happens very quickly (within seconds) and it is also the reason why Naloxone etc work the way they do.

Example: Morphine attaches to a site, passes on its effect by releasing its charge then falls off the site because it no longer has a charge to "hold on" with - it moves along and is metabolized into an inert model (even though it is no longer effective now anyway). Naloxone has a higher affinity for opiate receptors in the brain, therefor the naloxone can attach itself to the receptor quicker than the next morphine (or other opiate) molecule in line, producing a blockade effect to the said receptors. Naloxone stays attached to receptors for longer than other opiates etc.

So from that example one can deduce that though the idea of potentiation through inhibitation of that enzyme is great, the enzyme needs to actually still be there also to produce the effects wanted. If the enzyme is no longer there at all then all one would have is uncharged morphine floating around aimlessly in ones system.

One does not recommend to others to play around with such stuff as PT and CFO can already be unpredictable and it would be irresponsible for one to suggest for anyone to take themselves past ceiling point for codeine alone let alone the other implications of doing so. If one is to try anything like this then please post ones findings but also please do so with CAUTION as this is not something to be played with lightly.

Hope this has helped.

[Ethyl]

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

If GFJ were used first then the enzyme would already be inhibited and therefor the pre-used codeine would not be metabolized into morphine in the first place.

Just to correct that.. GFJ does not inhibit 2d6 (like codeine) but 3a4.

But i agree with swiy. DON'T EVER MIX THE TWO. THIS IS FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY (TO AVOID DISASTER..).

[samuraigecko]

Ahh, misread, one knew that and still made the mistakes . LOL. Ones bad.

[Melalicious]

swim has tested this GFJ method once so far, she drunk 2lt of yellow GFJ around 15hours before dosage of 180mg of codeine, and she felt slight changes more so of the peek, but also found duration of feeling it strongly in her body lasted longer too, but nothing dramatic! swim is going to give GFJ another run tho!