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  #1  
Old 09-01-2008, 13:14
thegoat thegoat is offline
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Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Swim has recently been getting brown rock/powder heroin. Swim has snorted this form of heroin as well as smoked it. Swim has a question on purity. The brown is in rock form before it is crushed into a fine crystalline powder. Swim believes the purity of this heroin is very low. The quantity varies by purchase and swim is sure he's being shorted sometimes. It is also sometimes already crushed into powder before swim receives it. Swim is aware of being ripped and having H cut with something.

The question is which type of heroin is brown rock/powder. What different purities there are and how to tell. The potency has varied, but after swim smokes it off of tin foil (a match head sized amount) and little to know bubbling is seen and the greater portion of the powder is left behind as charred ash. Swims most recent batch was of the lowest potency of all received. Swims main form of ingestion is through snorting, but when lower potency seemed to be the reason that way wasn't working smoking was tried and sometimes preferred however after discovering how little or not at all the substance bubbles.

Swim's guess is that because of low tolerance and infrequent usage small doses of snorted powder have worked fine, but estimates after research the large amount of charred remains after smoking it means potency could be very low, possibly in the 5% range? Swim could be very wrong and has had previous encounters that yield a much larger effect from a much smaller amount.

So basically swim wants to know what kind of heroin brown rock/powder heroin is. What is the average purity brown rock, what is in brown rock heroin besides heroin, what the purity mostly likely is, and is it safe to shoot. Swim also read you can place heroin under the skin through a cut as well and would like to know if this brown rock would be safe for that.

Swim thanks you all generously and apologizes if some of these questions have already been asked.
  #2  
Old 09-01-2008, 17:41
Solinari Solinari is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Brown heroin is usually, if not always heroin 3 as in number 3. This is in contrast to heroin 4 which goes through an extra step to make it into the salt heroin hydrochloride, similar to cocaine and crack. Basically heroin 3 is like crack as in it's in base form and heroin 4 is like cocaine because it's in a salt form and soluble in water. As far as i know you can still smoke heroin 4, but i don't think it 'runs' on tin foil the way brown heroin 3 base does, but i can't speak from experience.

The purity of brown heroin can vary widely from place to place and from dealer to dealer. If it's in a rock it doesn't necessarily mean it's more pure, it just means someone has pressed it in to rocks. Never the less, getting rocks is probably a better indication that it hasn't been cut to same degree that powder may have been cut too. Purity can range so much, from 10% (or less) to 60% maybe more, there really isn't a way to tell from looking at the heroin itself, and even after consumption, it is still anyone's guess.

Brown smack shouldn't bubble at all while running it on the foil, the only way it would bubble is if you don't run it and heat it in the one place, you shouldn't do this, it should be ran in lines. Most brown smack will leave a residue from these lines, generally the less the better but not always, when it fries or 'pops' at the end it should only be a small amount, but it will bubble and leave a small amount of charred 'beetle' on the foil but this should be no more ash than say a flick of a cigarette. If it pops after only a few lines then it's probably being cut to hell, and if this keeps happening from the same source then one should change sources and try to get better gear.

Brown heroin is injected all the time, but as with anything it does have risks, probably more than heroin 4 which would be soluble in water with the adulterants hopefully not dissolving. That said, i wouldn't say it's much more dangerous to inject brown heroin, at least beyond the obvious. But it will require an acid, usually citric acid to turn the base in to a salt (heroin citrate). Generally 100mg of citric acid should be able to dissolve 1 gram of relatively high purity brown heroin, the less pure the less acid required.

This placing heroin under a cut in the skin, i think that is crazy, ridiculous even, where did you hear this? Maybe you mean a subcutaneous injection (skin popping)? I would advise against this unless it is necessary, ie. you don't have any veins. Skin popping and muscle popping (subcutaneous and intra muscular injection) is against the advice the UK drug services are giving, it allows the solution to remain in one site possibly allowing infection to start. There have been a few cases of the flesh eating bacteria killing people in the UK because they used these methods of injecting, either that or they 'missed' the vein and the infection was allowed to take hold.

My advice would be to continue smoking it, or if one thinks they get good or better effects from snorting it, then i see no reason not to continue doing that, apart from the whole addiction thing of course. Speaking of addiction, first and foremost i would say stay away from heroin, no one can control their habit and in the end it always controls them, take it from some one that knows first hand and seeing it happening to many friends and people i know.
  #3  
Old 10-01-2008, 00:13
samuraigecko samuraigecko is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

This is a hard question to answer because there are so many variables.

The brown rock can either be
1] a refined form of the "black tar" (H3 or Heroin #3)
2] a more pure form of H4 (Heroin #4)

Herein lies the paradox. H3 is supposed to smoke better than H4.
H4 has a higher affinity for injection as the pH is lower and it is in a salt form.
H3 is still used for injection when "prepared" correctly.
H4 still smokes good but not AS good as H3.

It is also possible that the Heroin has been "jumped on" (cut) with something bad. Heroin is cut as it goes through almost every hand from the time of production to the dealer who puts it out on the streets.

These cutting agents can be anything from powdered babies milk to glucose or caffeine. Basically anything that will dissolve either clear or semi clear can and will be used to cut H4 with.

One is unsure what people cut H3 with and would need to research more into the matter. One thinks that it would and could be cut with almost anything water soluble, either clear or clouded, so that the person whom is cooking up on the spoon is unsuspecting.

(and one has observed that a lot of the time they just don't care).
A typical example would be "Ah, wtf is this crap in the bottom of the spoon bro? that cant be good. Oh well . . . " and the user proceeds to suck up the solution through the filter anyway. If one was to be in the culture in any way one would have also observed this for SWIyourself.

CAUTION is advised when using any opiate, know ones limits and do not push ones self to far as the results can leave devastation in its wake.

Hope this has helped

Last edited by samuraigecko; 10-01-2008 at 00:14. Reason: remix
  #4  
Old 10-01-2008, 09:39
thegoat thegoat is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Swim got the information on placing the H in a cut from this site at the bottom, helpingaddicts.net/use.htm. Swim's stash does not run on the foil as it does not take on the nature of liquid or tar when smoked. This could be due to how small of an amount swim smokes at a time (match head size amount) Or the purity is horrid. Swim may have a new source for white rock/powder. Swim thinks he may have better success with a rock of heroin 4. Swim usually buys what are called "40's" (40mg's???), but thinks buying a gram of heroin 4 still in rock form would be a better deal purity wise. Swim wants to avoid buying powder now because it most likely means it's being cut even more than the rocks themselves were.

Swim plans on getting a gram of H4 or not buying H3 unless it's still a rock when purchased. If swim can get 1 gram rock of H3 would this be better than a 1 gram rock of H4? Swim prefers to smoke or snort H, but from what is heard thinks H4 is better for shooting. Swim apologizes for being a newb, but wants to learn as much as possible about any drug swim plans on consuming.
  #5  
Old 11-01-2008, 01:16
samuraigecko samuraigecko is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

SWIMs opinion is that Snorting H4 is better than smoking H3.

Caution is always advised when playing with any opiate, especially a street opiate. Know ones limits.

Hope this has been of help.
  #6  
Old 11-01-2008, 05:08
thegoat thegoat is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Swim thanks everyone here. swim bonded with his contact and has formed a beautiful new relationship with trust. swim will continue snorting and has decided not to start bangin'. swim's friend squid bangs it and has access to a needle sharing program, has the OD life saver drug (forgets what it's called), and safely does this so the H is pretty clean. swim thnxs everyone again. be safe all!!!
  #7  
Old 13-01-2008, 09:07
samuraigecko samuraigecko is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
Swim thanks everyone here. swim bonded with his contact and has formed a beautiful new relationship with trust. swim will continue snorting and has decided not to start bangin'. swim's friend squid bangs it and has access to a needle sharing program, has the OD life saver drug (forgets what it's called), and safely does this so the H is pretty clean. swim thnxs everyone again. be safe all!!!
Can be Epinephren, and that is more than likely the case as it is easy to get a hold of. But could also be Naloxone if he/she happens to know someone in the ParaMed or ER business.

Epinephren is just adrenalin, it will bring a person out of an OD a lot of the time and usually almost IMMEDIATELY, but not always.

Naloxone is an Opiate reversal drug (although it is actually an opiate itself aswell) and will send a person into IMMEDIATE withdrawal and bring them out of an OD almost IMMEDIATELY.

Hope this ahs been of help
  #8  
Old 13-01-2008, 14:14
Solinari Solinari is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Drug services in the UK now offer what i imagine would be naloxone, but i think you have to be taught to use it before they give you it. There was a leaflet in one the packs the local exchange gives you about it.
  #9  
Old 01-01-2010, 01:49
muopioidagonist muopioidagonist is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

in Detroit SWIM was getting white acidic number 4 diacetylmorphine for a long time. Then suddenly some brown crap was coming in that smelled like vinegar (indicative of some type of acetylation) but when snorted, SWIM felt nothing. Just as swim was about to give up, he or she scrounged up 150$ and bought a gram off of someone who had just got arrested with 100$ of SWIMs money last week(on christmas day). The guy gets back and pulls out a hard chunk of a off-grey, almost brown chunk.

After snorting some and not feeling any immediate internal warmth, and noticing his eyes aren't pinned. Swim chews up a bit and it has a faint taste of the familiar almost earthy flavor. But after doing 100mg and chewing up a considerable amount doesn't feel much and still has dilated eyes from initial withdrawals. In the car ride home swim has some orange juice and decides to eat some more and then sip the acidic juice and swim thinks he feels something, and tastes more of that taste.

When swim gets home he pulls out foil and after letting the grey rock melt, it runs down the foil nicely and produces immediate euphoria.

Moral of the story: dont let number 3 fool you, always smoke a bit if one don't taste acid after snorting some and hopefully one got real H.
  #10  
Old 01-01-2010, 03:18
OnlyPulvoPlease OnlyPulvoPlease is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Sounds to swim like it's cut with sugar. In swim's area this is the most common cut. White sugar is cooked in a large spoon until it turns black but before it's burnt. Then it's powdered and combined with H. It looks and tastes very similar to H when prepared in this way. But it will bubble on foil and easily turns into rocks when compressed or kept in pocket. That's swim's best guess without trying it!

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  #11  
Old 01-01-2010, 17:55
muopioidagonist muopioidagonist is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Yes, It does bubble a lot for SWIM, when smoked on foil, a dark opaque residue is the trace of the "run" and eventually a considerable amount of char forms with the bubble. SWIM damns caramelization... when one thinks cooking up, it's not supposed to be with sucrose. Fuck those fuckers.
  #12  
Old 01-01-2010, 18:22
votrevelly votrevelly is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

If SWIYour gear bubbles on the foil when SWIY starts smoking it, it's either very low quality or SWIY can't run it on foil properly.
  #13  
Old 02-01-2010, 04:21
OpiLuvnOldLady OpiLuvnOldLady is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

The tar that SWIM was getting before she left the pacific NW would run well on the foil, but at the end of that line would stop running, develop a bubble, which would turn to charcoal, and quicky to ash. The ones who showed SWIM how to do this for herself said she was doing it right. And SWIM's trainers never asked for foils that had been used. But the more that I'm reading here it's making SWIM feel that maybe she wasn't doing it right. Yes, she did go back over the caramelized looking stripes to make them go black. But she's just wondering if there's something that is being missed.
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Old 02-01-2010, 14:24
mickey_bee Gold member mickey_bee is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Where's swiy's location? If people knew that then they'd be able to tell you with 99.9% certainty what type of heroin it is, and it's likely average purity, the most common cuts, and how safe/what is needed for injection.

H3 can be white as the driven snow, and H4 can be pretty brown. The colour really means nothing. Similarly, both H3 and H4 can come in rock and powder form.

And in response to the nalaxone thing, swim doesn't know about other countries, (although has seen harm reduction films from the Chicago area which suggest it's available, explaining how to use nalaxone).

In the UK, nalaxone is now widely available through drug services such as methadone/subutex clinics and needle exchanges, however this does depend to a degree on which region you live. A short training course must be attended before take home naloxone may be obtained.
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Old 02-01-2010, 15:12
Helene Gold member Helene is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by samuraigecko View Post

Naloxone is an Opiate reversal drug (although it is actually an opiate itself aswell) and will send a person into IMMEDIATE withdrawal and bring them out of an OD almost IMMEDIATELY.
This isn't actually the case - the doses of naloxone provided in take-home kits are not usually high enough to send an addict into withdrawal.

Also, it should be remembered that naloxone wears off after around 45 minutes. The effects of heroin can last many hours. So there is a very real risk of someone OD-ing again, after the naloxone has worn off, even if they have not had any more heroin. This risk is even greater in the context of a methadone overdose, because of its very long half-life.

As a result of this, DIY naloxone should not be used as an alternative to calling paramedics, but in addition to. Further medical attention may be required, user-administrated naloxone is not a one-stop, quick-fix solution to an opiate overdose.

For further info on take-home naloxone schemes, see here:

User held naloxone overdose kits

H

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  #16  
Old 26-06-2010, 09:55
standardbredhorse standardbredhorse is offline
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Re: Brown rock/powder heroin questions

Thank you for the fantastic advice, Helene. It is amazing the amount of misinformation that can be spread unintentionally by either incomplete research or repeating information that one hears from 'friends' instead of obtaining from reliable sources. Obviously you've done your research on naloxone.

One thing I'd like to add is that there are studies which have been done (actually numerous studies) which prove that naloxone and other opioid antagonists/mixed agonist/antagonists can actually help to potentiate when given in sub-clinical microdoses. In plain English, this means that minute amounts (research varies, but the most common I've seen recommend 1/10th the standard 'therapeutic' or clinical dose). The research is valid and strong enough that pharma companies have already developed products which mix the two (a primary opiate and naloxone) in a specific ratio, and are awaiting either approval for further research/experimentation or actual regulatory approval for distriibution.

What this would mean for a user in terms of harm-reduction or enhancing their experience is that their supply could be stretched, their subjective experience vastly improving, tolerance slowed and/or even reversed, and hopefully an increased chance of having a supply of naloxone (or naltrexone) on hand for emergencies, to be used just as Helene described.

1) Prepare as normal
2) ingest micro-dose of naloxone (1/10th the dose--but research first, I'm not going to do all the work for you, and you shouldn't rely on my word, but on primary sources)
3) ingest opiate

In summary, small doses of naloxone/naltrexone and other mixed opioid agonist/antagonists can help potentiate heroin, oxycodone, and almost all other opiates/opioids (potentiate = make them work better, feel stronger, last longer, achieve better results with small doses, etc. etc.). It's an amazing new discovery - definitely worth searching on and reading when one has the time!

Thanks, and friendly nickers,

S. Horse

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