Experiences - Question about getting frighteningly high

[Acm13Tus]

First some background: swim has been smoking everyday for close to 3 1/2 years now. He has seen all different types of weed, smoked name brands like Kali Mist and Northern Lights constantly for a while, and used pretty much every device known to man. So on to the question; the other day swim was taking some massive gravity bong hits out of a gallon container along with about five other people. The weed was a mixture of some pretty good headies and average mids. So swim took his two hits and thought that that would be sufficient since the container was huge. After he went back inside he was talking to this girl and all the sudden he completely spaced out. This happened so fast, the girl was talking and exactly midway through her sentence he just couldn't hear her at all. He had to listen very intently to understand what she was saying. He politely excused himself (at least that's what he would like to think) and went back upstairs and sat on a stool in the kitchen...apparently. At this point, swim has no idea what happened but saw a video of people standing around swim and exclaiming how white he looked while he just stared straight ahead. They began to poke him in his face to no response. That's how he sat for pretty much an hour. After a while he regained his memory and remembers remarking how fast the room was spinning and how it was kind of freaking him out because he couldn't stop the spinning no matter how hard he tried. Meanwhile, the other five people who took the grav bong hits along with swim were experiencing similar things. One person was in the bathroom throwing up while the other four were freaking out saying, "I've never been this high."
My question is this, could this have been laced with anything? Swim realizes that 95% of stories about weed laced without the persons knowledge are probably made up by inexperienced users and personally doesn't think that this was

Reputation Comments on this post:

intriguing- will be interested to hear others' input. thanks for sharing.

[Acm13Tus]

Dang it...

laced with anything because it doesn't sound like any drug swiy all have described. However, this was a more intense high than anything swim has ever experienced before and really has no other explanation and has not been able to recreate it. Swim just thought that he would ask swiy's opinion and maybe find an answer.

[moda00]

Weed can knock swi-me or you off their asses if taken in sufficient quantities ie. a potent strain out a gravity bong.

Swim's had a few experiences where she completely blacked out smoking- memory wise, and also physically- not fallen in the abrupt sense, and never injured, but sort of slowly lost consciousness and gently sank down on the carpet and then woke up probably seconds-minutes later, like WhOa.. But an hour, huh?

Shulgin describes something like this happening to him and his wife (at that point, girlfriend) in PIKHAL, they go to a party and some strange dude has some supposedly African pot called "the Dread." He comments that his policy is never to partake in drugs that are not procured from his own hand or a reliable/trusted friend source, but they did wind up smoking, and several people had bad reactions similar to what you are describing- from complete disassociation/disconnect from the external world, to severe anxiety and confusion, to vomiting.

All swim's (minor) experiences were with normal pot, in her normal pipe, and seemed to have nothing to do with the weed itself, but rather something entirely different/unexpected- lack of oxygen maybe? Paradoxical reaction? It seems that what swi-you are describing is something else, that was objectively confirmed by the others experiencing it as well, so it could have been either laced (although swim doesn't know what with?) or a very high thc content- plus the gravity bong- man, that'll make the room spin for even the most hard-headed of stoners.. Swim smoked daily (2-8x day) for several years, and she still felt that gravity bongs and the like were in a league of their own.. in a good way and a crazy way, but could see how it could become a bad thing if one smoked too much and freaked.. Question- swiy said he was unable to recreate the experience- has he smoked from the same batch of weed? The same gravity bong? Our bodies and chemicals we ingest can be unpredictable at times, but dang that sounds intense- glad swiy made it back to earth Keep us posted if you have any other thoughts or info.. I'm curious now, as is swim..

[Acm13Tus]

Originally Posted by moda00

Question- swiy said he was unable to recreate the experience- has he smoked from the same batch of weed? The same gravity bong?

No, he couldn't get anymore from the same batch. He has just kept his eyes open for anything like it. As for the grav bong, he didn't smoke from the exact same one but made his own pretty much the same way out of the same materials. He was thinking the setting and the mood might have had something to do with it but, again, he's not sure. Thanks for the reply

[moda00]

Originally Posted by Acm13Tus

No, he couldn't get anymore from the same batch. He has just kept his eyes open for anything like it. As for the grav bong, he didn't smoke from the exact same one but made his own pretty much the same way out of the same materials. He was thinking the setting and the mood might have had something to do with it but, again, he's not sure. Thanks for the reply

You're welcome.. indeed, set and setting could have had a major influence. Swim notices that with many substances, if a substance is taken simultaneously in a small group setting, something being experienced by one individual can influence others to the point where they are in a shared state/experience, albeit in their own "version" of it. Or like when you wind up in a shared dreamspace.. Can be a really potent force, whatever it is, whether positive or as swiy's case, seemingly very negative.

[Lehendakari]

^^ SWIM had a very similar experience, not so bad, he just couldn't follow a conversation with his room mate, and couldn't get the words to explain him SWIM was hyper high. The room mate told SWIM to calm down and told SWIM that he looked fine. SWIM never panicked, cause it didn't get worse.

After that SWIM had a similar experience smoking after a MDMA night. He remembers his hands felt like they were not part of his body and he looked like a zombie, unable to speak or follow the movie they were watching. SWIM managed to tell his friend about this and his friend again told him he looked fine just a bit out of it.

This was all with UK's street weed, don't know the strain but it's the strongest weed SWIM's tried so far though his tolerance was not as high as it is right now

[Nature Boy]

It doesn't sound like that unusual a reaction. SWIY probably just smoked well beyond his limit. It is actually possible. People tend to forget that with pot. If you down a substantial portion of vodka or snort a line of coke too big, you should expect the unexpected. The very same goes for cannabis, any psychoactive for that matter. Cannabis is capable of acting like a hallucinogen afterall.

Gravity bongs can be especially potent in this regard. They fill with so much smoke and it is all inhaled extremely rapidly before the user is even given a chance to prepare their lungs. Notice how a small bong always produces sharper, tough hits? Gravity bongs/buckets provide huge, rapidly-inhaled hits. It's comparable to accidentally swallowing swimming pool water.

[chrisn]

Does anyone know the science behind this phenomenon?

My pet dragon can smoke 4x the amount of marijuana in a pipe he would in a waterfall bong and only get half as high. If he had to guess why this happened, he would say that the more one smokes, the more short-term tolerance cannabinoid receptors develop and if all of the THC hits your brain at once, this is avoided.

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

It doesn't sound like that unusual a reaction. SWIY probably just smoked well beyond his limit. It is actually possible. People tend to forget that with pot. If you down a substantial portion of vodka or snort a line of coke too big, you should expect the unexpected. The very same goes for cannabis, any psychoactive for that matter. Cannabis is capable of acting like a hallucinogen afterall.

Spot on. The well populated mythic 'understanding' that cannabis overdoses are non-existent is as silly as the equally mythic 'understanding' that cannabis is the lunacy-inducing crazy factory it was proposed to be during the beginning of its prohibition. It is no more 'completely harmless' than it is a 'ravishing killer hallucinogen'. An excessive dose of any psychoactive will elicit an equally excessive intoxication, and cannabis is no exception.

Originally Posted by chrisn

Does anyone know the science behind this phenomenon?

My pet dragon can smoke 4x the amount of marijuana in a pipe he would in a waterfall bong and only get half as high. If he had to guess why this happened, he would say that the more one smokes, the more short-term tolerance cannabinoid receptors develop and if all of the THC hits your brain at once, this is avoided.

phosphorylation (rapid-tolerance mechanism) of cannabinoid receptors occurs in less than 2 seconds after an excessive consumption of THC like a gravity bong hit (meaning that before the entire hit has been even partially metabolized, less receptors are willing to accept cannabinoids), though down-regulation (long-term receptor recession) takes a bit longer to effect inhalation efficiency. This could be a part of the 'phenomenon'. If smoked correctly, bronchiodilation should open available alveoli, making inhalation more efficient. Studies have shown that 'correct', experienced inhalation techniques yield and absorption rate 50% higher than inexperienced or poorly trained smokers. Another worthwhile observation is that certain terpenoids present in cannabis will restrict overdose absorption, meaning that receptors will down-regulate to effectively stop accepting cannabinoids at a certain point, rendering the smoke session neurologically adjourned. This all translates to: take small hits and allow them to be fully metabolized before continuing to smoke, preventing phosphorylation from excessive exposure and unrelinquishing activation. smoke reasonable portions. and cough! bronchiodilation occurs as a result of two things: cannabinoids, and coughing. coughing drags air into unexposed areas of alveoli distribution, resulting in more efficient absorption. so cough!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	thank you for the post, fascinating information!! :)
	Thanks for posting. Looking forward to more similar info!

[moda00]

Originally Posted by Shampoo

phosphorylation (rapid-tolerance mechanism) of cannabinoid receptors occurs in less than 2 seconds after an excessive consumption of THC like a gravity bong hit (meaning that before the entire hit has been even partially metabolized, less receptors are willing to accept cannabinoids), though down-regulation (long-term receptor recession) takes a bit longer to effect inhalation efficiency. This could be a part of the 'phenomenon'. If smoked correctly, bronchiodilation should open available alveoli, making inhalation more efficient. Studies have shown that 'correct', experienced inhalation techniques yield and absorption rate 50% higher than inexperienced or poorly trained smokers. Another worthwhile observation is that certain terpenoids present in cannabis will restrict overdose absorption, meaning that receptors will down-regulate to effectively stop accepting cannabinoids at a certain point, rendering the smoke session neurologically adjourned. This all translates to: take small hits and allow them to be fully metabolized before continuing to smoke, preventing phosphorylation from excessive exposure and unrelinquishing activation. smoke reasonable portions. and cough! bronchiodilation occurs as a result of two things: cannabinoids, and coughing. coughing drags air into unexposed areas of alveoli distribution, resulting in more efficient absorption. so cough!

Shampoo, that is fascinating. So the feeling that after smoking for awhile, one doesn't/can't get any more stoned, even though they may keep smoking is actually rooted in a neurological mechanism to prevent proper absorption after a point? I wonder if this is a set point, or if it is different for individuals? Also, you discuss rapid tolerance and long term tolerance mechanisms within a session.. does long term tolerance (ie. over a period of days/weeks/months) also apply, and how do these relate? Swim has experienced this long term tolerance in that it seems to take much less to get high (as in several hits as opposed to several bowls or joints- a huge difference in quantity of similar high quality weed) when she stopped smoking regularly- but then again that could also be purely subjective- that she would stop smoking sooner in the session because the slight affects of marijuana done very irregularly may feel stronger than a "high" that is felt daily, in which case one might just be more accustomed to it. Do you know anything about this? Or is that tolerance related to the down-regulation you mention- do you know anything about how long this down-regulation lasts, and whether it is a linear process, or a more unpredictable one?

[Mr. Giraffe]

Though I'm sure Shampoo will weigh in with a neurologically impeccable response in a moment, I'll give this one a stab and we can all proceed to Shampoo's highly impressive answer below and find out if I'm right.

One of the reasons cannabis isn't addictive is because tolerance isn't built up to any significant extent. Though there may be some build up of tolerance during smoking sessions, this tolerance is not carried - or at least, is so small as to be insignificant - beyond the smoking session. I think the cut-off is around 90 minutes for tolerance to recede.

It's possible that the feeling of not being as high is due to learning or getting used to the cannabis intoxication, rather than tolerance per se... perhaps getting stoned just loses its novelty and doesn't feel as dramatic when it's practised often.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for your input, it is appreciated and valuable to hear more than one person's opinions and knowledge ;)

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by moda00

Shampoo, that is fascinating. So the feeling that after smoking for awhile, one doesn't/can't get any more stoned, even though they may keep smoking is actually rooted in a neurological mechanism to prevent proper absorption after a point? I wonder if this is a set point, or if it is different for individuals? Also, you discuss rapid tolerance and long term tolerance mechanisms within a session.. does long term tolerance (ie. over a period of days/weeks/months) also apply, and how do the these relate? Swim has experienced this long term tolerance in that it seems to take much less to get high (as in several hits as opposed to several bowls or joints- a huge difference in quantity of similar high quality weed) when she stopped smoking regularly- but then again that could also be purely subjective- that she would stop smoking sooner in the session because the slight affects of marijuana done very irregularly may feel stronger than a "high" that is felt daily, in which case one might just be more accustomed to it. Do you know anything about this? Or is that tolerance related to the down-regulation you mention- do you know anything about how long this down-regulation lasts, and whether it is a linear process, or a more unpredictable one?

Finally someone is interested! (Thanks) Ill try to answer the questions as briefly as possible, so as they do not become cumbersome in their language or density. For more detailed information, see this thread: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45944 which I later expanded into this: http://www.drugs-wiki.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46020 . Please PM me if your curious about anything else.

-There is not a 'set-point' at which down-regulation effectively reduces stimulation of receptors to an unnoticeable level. It is determined by a vast array of functions, including length and intensity, set and setting, the current neural activity during ingestion, age, weight, health, etc..

-Rapid tolerance occurs almost immediately, and is efficient at reduction within a single session consisting of several 'hits', however long-term tolerance also impacts the receptor availability within a single session. When I speak of long-term tolerance, it is down-regulation of CB receptors, which occurs within an hour of exposure, and sometimes even quicker. It is additive, and relatively linear, and can build up over the course of days, weeks and years. It is relatively predictable, and lasts for several days, in heavy abuse up to a week or a little more.

[Acm13Tus]

This is why I love this forum haha, I feel a lot smarter now. Thanks

[lexifer]

Something similar will happen to swim from time to time. 4 times to date since he started smoking 3 years ago, actually. It usually happens when swim either smokes a whole lot real fast. The first 2 times it happened like this. Swim got real pale and dizzy and like he was about to puke but then it ended in like 10 minutes and swim was just ridiculously high. The last 2 times however swim had been doing some oxycodone with it. The last time this happened, swim snorted only 30 mg of oxycodone and smoked one bong to his head in succession. As soon as the weed fully kicked in swim felt thos efamiliar feelings and decided to get up and go to the bathroom incase he did get sick. When swim got to the bathroom door not 6 feet away he all of the sudden got extremely disoriented and next thing he knows he is laying on the bathroom floor for what must have been only a couple minutes. Swim was awoken by his dad yelling up stairs "what the hell's going on!?". Swim waited the dizziness out in the bathroom for almost 45 minutes. When it finally subsided he was absurdly high for the small amount of drugs he did.

Swim still isn't sure what these occurences are but thinks that its just some kind of overload of sorts and since it only happens periodically swim isn't worried.

[JCJC]

Sounds like SWIY had a whitey. Sounds like he also got lucky, as when SWIM had a whitey he felt sicker than he could ever imagine feeling, plus couldnt move or speak.

[moda00]

Originally Posted by JCJC

Sounds like SWIY had a whitey. Sounds like he also got lucky, as when SWIM had a whitey he felt sicker than he could ever imagine feeling, plus couldnt move or speak.

What does this mean???

[JCJC]

A whitey is something that sometimes happens when SWIY smokes too much weed. SWIM doesnt know what exactly is going on in the body when it happens but he has experienced one and it is really unpleasant.

Basicly SWIY feels very very sick, very weak, possibly unable to move. Basically all the bad parts of a weed high x 1 million.

[moda00]

Originally Posted by JCJC

A whitey is something that sometimes happens when SWIY smokes too much weed. SWIM doesnt know what exactly is going on in the body when it happens but he has experienced one and it is really unpleasant.

Basicly SWIY feels very very sick, very weak, possibly unable to move. Basically all the bad parts of a weed high x 1 million.

Ohhh thank you.. never heard that term round these parts Seems like several swims and swiys have experienced this.. swim wonders if it might be comparable to a spontaneously induced panic attack or dissassociative state, except induced by too much weed or other factors? Has anyone experienced both and can compare? Swim has had a panic attack.. but her only such experiences on weed have been the very rare passing out of sorts for several seconds.. perhaps related more to lack of oxygen than the weed itself. I mean, she's gotten a little paranoid on occasion, who hasn't, but for the most part has never had a bad physical reaction like nausea/vomiting (well except when drinking alcohol and smoking, together, back in the day) or a really bad psychological reaction.. Doesn't sound fun though. Also interesting that many people have either a panic reaction or some sort of physical reaction or both and attribute it to "laced pot." I think much of that is fear- the idea of not being in control, of being deceived, and the impression we have grown up with of people lacing or spiking drinks or drugs as a terrifying phenomenon, so may interpret something to be that which is not. Interesting also how sometimes one person can react really badly and others are fine, or sometimes multiple people have bad reactions.. Would be interested to find out why people perceive this, and what they experience, and how it compares with say choosing to knowingly ingest pcp or some other type of drug combo or "laced" product, or like I said a natural psychological reaction like a manic state in bipolar depression, a panic/anxiety attack, etc. Of course there is much speculation, but it would be fascinating to do large-scale research on this phenomenon and see if there are any common traits or variations to explain this more thoroughly..

[Mr. Giraffe]

Incidentally, my cat reports that, though he used to get whiteys on a semi-regular basis (that last j that you prob'ly shouldn't bother with after a long session), he has not gotten a single one since he quit tobacco, no matter how 'frighteningly high' he gets.