Is Withdrawl physically PAINFULL?

[BakaBilly]

For the last 7 years SWIM has had this unexplained condition. Basically when SWIM wakes up in the morning and has a BM he gets terrible pain in his gut and near his sternum. This also happens on occasion after eating a meal, or for no good reason at all sometime later in the evening. SWIM has seen many doctors but nothing has been diagnosed. SWIM has been to the ER countless times for this pain. 12 times in last years 12 month period!

For at least the last 5 of those 7 years SWIM was using pot to ease the pain. SWIM would smoke quite a bit in the morning and after meals and sometimes before bed.

SWIM finally just last year was perscribed oxycontnin which worked wonders. For three months SWIM finally felt like he could live his life again. SWIM took one 10mg pill in the morning and one 10mg pill in the evening.

Well one morning SWIM got an attack and went to the ER. The ER chalked the attack up to withdrawls. They reluctantly gave SWIM some pain medicine and addmited him to a room. SWIMs doctor came in that morning and said that because SWIM had missed an appointment he broke his narcotic contract and would be taken off the oxycontnin.

Sooo SWIM is off the oxy but this week SWIM gets a monster flare up. Pain in the 10s and man does it suck. SWIM goes to the ER and they literally make him lay in the ER bed for over 6 hours! They wouldnt give SWIM anything because according to them SWIM was going through withdrawls. SWIM had to threaten bodily harm to get anything and all that really got him was 2 days on suicide watch!

So heres an attack at a glance. SWIM wakes up and has a BM, SWIMs gut hurts like a bitch and he is nauseated. SWIM takes hot showers to sometimes help. Sometimes the attacks are just so bad hot showers and pot dont help. SWIM then goes to the ER for pain medicine. SWIM can move about and writhes alot. Doctors tell SWIM that since he is moving his pain must all be in his head. SWIM sweats alot when hes dry heaving and SWIM dry heaves alot when he gets an attack. The shit is a fucking living nightmare. Especially when doctors are looking at him like he is a drug seeker. This week was especially bad.

SWIM went to the ER at 11 am and they finally gave him morphine at about midnight that night.

Sorry for the long post. I guess to get straight to the point. Is withdrawl that physically painful? I mean SWIM feels like he could stab himself in the gut and the knife wound might actually ease the pain (the comment in question that got him admitted). Is the pain really a 10 out of 10 like he tells the doctors at the hospital it is?

SWIM literally holds his breath so long that he almost passes out because it makes his body numb for 20 seconds and that 20 seconds is joy in hell.

[JaWill88]

withdrawal is physically painful and may be amplifying whatever condition swim has, in other words withdrawal is making it feel even worse then when sober and not hooked on anything. withdrawal would definately do that.

[samuraigecko]

It actually depends on how long one was taking the Oxycontin for. To develop a true dependence one needs to take enough opiates over a period of time so that the brain will stop producing a particular endorphin (endomorphin).

It (the brain) no longer produces that endorphin during addiction because it no longer needs it because the opiates are almost always attached to the receptor sites anyway. Opiates move slightly faster in the system than endomorphin which means that they reach the site before the endomorphin does (which is what makes opiates work).

In short, YES. Opiate withdrawal can be extremely painful. True opiate withdrawal can be even worse because the body as yet cannot produce any endomorphin which would normally regulate the pain in a normal healthy persons body. Until the body has recovered and the production of endomorphin resumes the withdrawal remains painful. Psychological withdrawal can produce similar effects but no where near as severe.

The psychological withdrawal commences because the body is producing smaller amounts of endomorphin rather than its usual amount. This produces the sweats and aches and a great psychological WANT for the drug but no real NEED for it. People can have this psychological dependence so bad that they actually feel they NEED it.

Again in short. YES, real physical withdrawal is extremely painful. Yes, psychological withdrawal is discomforting but is usually more like a bad flu that wont go away.

Hope this has been of help

[JJx23]

Well none-the-less, once the receptors are clear then the pain-killers would reach full effects once again, but this is why people get addicted to pain-killers, they need to take more just to feel that same high. Physical withdrawals are definitely possible, especially if SWIM has been taking that certain medication for a while. I remember watching the House episode where House was going through his detox off of Vicodin and he smashed his hand, this focused the pain else-where via the endorphins I believe, although i don't advise doing this, that is probably what you mean by stabbing SWIMself, but please don't do that, it is definitely not advisable.

Hope this helps.

[BakaBilly]

Ya SWIM would never actually hurt himself. SWIM is just sick of being treated like a drug seeker when he goes to the ER now.


SWIM admits that when he doesnt have the oxy he goes through withdrawl, which causes an attack, which ends up being a worse attack than normal because its also accompanied by all the other BS w/d comes with.

However even when going through w/d the attacks really arent much different then before SWIM had ever tried even pot for relief.

Apparently they arent allowed to deny anyone pain medicine until they have sent a letter stating "we think you are a drug seeker and will no longer treat your pain with narcotics.". SWIM has received no such letter and feels he is being poorly treated.

[samuraigecko]

Any ER doctor can deny pain meds if one exhibits "drug seeking" behavior. They do not need any letter stating that one may be a drug seeking patient.

Yes any opiate will produce the same WD as Heroin etc, this include vicodin or any other opiate based drug one can think of. Basing what one thinks on a TV show is not really recommended. Once the receptors are clear the psychological dependence is still there so - No the drug will not be at "full" effect again but certainly more of an effect than it normally would. One can ask any Heroin addict or previous pill addict this same question and one will get the same answer.

Example. A friend of SWIM used to have a big Oxycontin habit. He used to take up to 160mg (two 80mg) crushed tabs at a time. This dosage would almost certainly drop any normal non opiate tolerant person. After a period of drying out, he took this same dosage, he was certainly more fucked up than ever before but it still didnt drop him like it would with a fully NON opiate tolerant person.

In short, these pumps and receptors never "fully" recover. Even though the opiates are fully out of the system and the WD has been experienced and overcome, the natural tolerance level is now increased. In some cases the receptors can actually be permanently damaged. One will also find that they will never reach that first high . . it will never be quite the same as it first was.

Hope this has been of help

[JJx23]

Well this is why people taking medication need to take more to receive that same high. Obviously the medication isn't going to give you that same high at first, but if you took more it would. And basing information off of the show House is pretty close, watch the show, you will be surprised how realistic it is. When he smashes his hand, people actually do that to focus the pain elsewhere, or in other words release endorphines so they don't feel withdrawal pain totally. Believe me, I know, I was on Percocet for 6 months straight and I would say I am a lightweight compared to other people who take 160 MG + of Oxycontin, but if I take 10 MG of Percocet I feel the effects so everybody is different and filling people's brains with that information isn't going to help anyone, just scare people, everyone is different. The body repairs itself most of the time, and I highly doubt the receptors are 'permantantly' damaged, I could be wrong but doubt it. Surely withdrawal sucks, I went through it with Perks and the Suboxone crumbs (yes crumbs) little pieces worked wonders just so I didn't feel crappy, and now I am back on Percocet 10\650 I believe, so just letting you know that I must have a different tolerence than others.

I hope this helps all...

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

Any ER doctor can deny pain meds if one exhibits "drug seeking" behavior. They do not need any letter stating that one may be a drug seeking patient.

Yes any opiate will produce the same WD as Heroin etc, this include vicodin or any other opiate based drug one can think of. Basing what one thinks on a TV show is not really recommended. Once the receptors are clear the psychological dependence is still there so - No the drug will not be at "full" effect again but certainly more of an effect than it normally would. One can ask any Heroin addict or previous pill addict this same question and one will get the same answer.

Example. A friend of SWIM used to have a big Oxycontin habit. He used to take up to 160mg (two 80mg) crushed tabs at a time. This dosage would almost certainly drop any normal non opiate tolerant person. After a period of drying out, he took this same dosage, he was certainly more fucked up than ever before but it still didnt drop him like it would with a fully NON opiate tolerant person.

In short, these pumps and receptors never "fully" recover. Even though the opiates are fully out of the system and the WD has been experienced and overcome, the natural tolerance level is now increased. In some cases the receptors can actually be permanently damaged. One will also find that they will never reach that first high . . it will never be quite the same as it first was.

Hope this has been of help

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by JJx23

Well this is why people taking medication need to take more to receive that same high. Obviously the medication isn't going to give you that same high at first, but if you took more it would. And basing information off of the show House is pretty close, watch the show, you will be surprised how realistic it is. When he smashes his hand, people actually do that to focus the pain elsewhere, or in other words release endorphines so they don't feel withdrawal pain totally. Believe me, I know, I was on Percocet for 6 months straight and I would say I am a lightweight compared to other people who take 160 MG + of Oxycontin, but if I take 10 MG of Percocet I feel the effects so everybody is different and filling people's brains with that information isn't going to help anyone, just scare people, everyone is different. The body repairs itself most of the time, and I highly doubt the receptors are 'permantantly' damaged, I could be wrong but doubt it. Surely withdrawal sucks, I went through it with Perks and the Suboxone crumbs (yes crumbs) little pieces worked wonders just so I didn't feel crappy, and now I am back on Percocet 10\650 I believe, so just letting you know that I must have a different tolerence than others.

I hope this helps all...

The data is accurate. One can look at the many links one has posted in other threads in this and other sections to verify any of it.

One agrees that misinformation is dangerous, which is why one always researches a subject before posting or will post from previously obtained knowledge and usually show the relevant data.

TV is the biggest source of misinformation this planet has. One has watched "house" on many an occasion and laughed hard along with his partner (whom is an ER nurse) and with his room mate (whom is an intern). Laughed seriously hard at some of the outrageous things which happen and are said which NEVER happen in any real ER or hospital situation.

Hoever, one does know that people do (usually ineffectively) try to focus pain somewhere other than what is actually giving them the pain.

Percocet is rather weak (depending on the dosage and from what one has read about SWIyour dosage it is low). People whom take larger dosages will tend to experience more of what one has explained previously.

Percocet at 10mg per tablet, lets say 3 to 4 times a day, for 6 to 8 months is not going to produce any huge amount of WD. Do not get one wrong, it can produce some WD and probably in a significant amount of people but at this dosage for such a short period one would assume that it is mostly a psychological WD because the opiate saturation is not enough to make the endomorphin pumps to cease function.

SWIyou are definitely right about different people having different tolerances, especially the natural level of tolerance already present before an opiate is taken.

Here is an example: Imagine someone whom does crazy stuff, lets say . . a self proclaimed stunt man or a good skateboarder / motorcross rider / etc whom cares little for his/her own safety. Because of the amount of small injury they go through day to day their endomorphin production would be higher than most people (which has been shown to be true in a fair number of cases). These people tend to have a higher natural opiate tolerance than other people just because the receptor sites are already used to a high amounts of endomorphin (which opiates mimic) in their system.

Again, someone whom has been taking opiates for a long time, then comes off opiates (especially someone addicted to opiates at high dosages) tend to develop a higher natural tolerance to opiates because of this use. Cellular memory holds the key in this, that is why if SWIyou were to ask any significant opiate user or a Heroin addict or even an ex-user they would more than likely answer the question in the same way.

One is not advocating the use of opiates for any other reason than prescribed by a medical professional. If one is to choose to do it anyway then that is their choice alone and no one is going to stop them. Perhaps by reading some of this some people may be deterred a little from playing around with opiates too much.

Sorry for any earlier misunderstanding. One hopes this has been of help.

[JJx23]

Well I do know that TV can manipulate somethings, after all they need to add drama, etc. But I have family who are in the medical field and 95 % of the cases on House have been true to the tip, but that's besides the point.

I am opiate naive, and after 5 months on Percocet I felt really crappy, I mean not I want to kill myself crappy, but ya know run down (like flu-like symptoms). This is why I want to keep myself at this level, I only take pain medication for injuries, like my wrist. Tomorrow I go to my orthopedic and he prescribes me Percocet, it works for me, I enjoy being pain-free, until I get the surgery. I have stated this in previous threads that I need surgery, but this pain management program is working, I did take sometime off of the pain meds though as the pain was tolerable, but I fell in the shower right on the bad wrist and pretty much put myself back to square one. It sucks but I knew I needed surgery in the first place. I will let you all know how things go.

Thanks for the help. =)

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

The data is accurate. One can look at the many links one has posted in other threads in this and other sections to verify any of it.

One agrees that misinformation is dangerous, which is why one always researches a subject before posting or will post from previously obtained knowledge and usually show the relevant data.

TV is the biggest source of misinformation this planet has. One has watched "house" on many an occasion and laughed hard along with his partner (whom is an ER nurse) and with his room mate (whom is an intern). Laughed seriously hard at some of the outrageous things which happen and are said which NEVER happen in any real ER or hospital situation.

Hoever, one does know that people do (usually ineffectively) try to focus pain somewhere other than what is actually giving them the pain.

Percocet is rather weak (depending on the dosage and from what one has read about SWIyour dosage it is low). People whom take larger dosages will tend to experience more of what one has explained previously.

Percocet at 10mg per tablet, lets say 3 to 4 times a day, for 6 to 8 months is not going to produce any huge amount of WD. Do not get one wrong, it can produce some WD and probably in a significant amount of people but at this dosage for such a short period one would assume that it is mostly a psychological WD because the opiate saturation is not enough to make the endomorphin pumps to cease function.

SWIyou are definitely right about different people having different tolerances, especially the natural level of tolerance already present before an opiate is taken.

Here is an example: Imagine someone whom does crazy stuff, lets say . . a self proclaimed stunt man or a good skateboarder / motorcross rider / etc whom cares little for his/her own safety. Because of the amount of small injury they go through day to day their endomorphin production would be higher than most people (which has been shown to be true in a fair number of cases). These people tend to have a higher natural opiate tolerance than other people just because the receptor sites are already used to a high amounts of endomorphin (which opiates mimic) in their system.

Again, someone whom has been taking opiates for a long time, then comes off opiates (especially someone addicted to opiates at high dosages) tend to develop a higher natural tolerance to opiates because of this use. Cellular memory holds the key in this, that is why if SWIyou were to ask any significant opiate user or a Heroin addict or even an ex-user they would more than likely answer the question in the same way.

One is not advocating the use of opiates for any other reason than prescribed by a medical professional. If one is to choose to do it anyway then that is their choice alone and no one is going to stop them. Perhaps by reading some of this some people may be deterred a little from playing around with opiates too much.

Sorry for any earlier misunderstanding. One hopes this has been of help.

[chansonGuy]

Sorry to necro up an old post, but your symptoms sound similar to what's known caused by a simple wheat allergy. It's Celiacs disease, I suffer from it, and believe you me... Swim loves his opiates, but they're TERRIBLE for Celiacs if we aren't gluten free. By increasing our constipation, they own the hell out our small intestine/colon.

Just something to look into, as opposed to simple withdrawals. Though, it also MAY be simple withdrawals because let's face it, when we're in pain - withdrawal pain, which includes mental stress - we exaggerate our hypocondriac'd condition and all is worsened. Also, your withdrawals may simply be making your abdominal pain WORSE, MUCH WORSE.

If you get an email notifying you of this response, which I hope you do if you're still having issues... Look into "Celiacs Disease" - Just google it, you'll probably find all your symptoms listed and the answer is simply cutting out wheat. Dietary change, which could solve your need for pain killers, by actually cutting out your pain. =)

Good luck! Hope you're better by now as well, since this post was drudged up out of the boonies :P

Reputation Comments on this post:

very insightful post.

[Songcycle67]

SWIM says:

SWIY's symptoms sound like the symptoms I suffer from supposed sciatica. I've never had an MRI to confirm it, but I wake up in the morning with severe diarrhea pains in my stomach and my testicles feel as if they've been kicked by a horse. Sometimes the stomach pain gets so sharp that it would make me incoherent and spread this burning ache to my limbs.

After being on hydrocodone for a year for the problem, one day I went to the ER for the severe stomach pain and they said the same thing: "it's only withdrawal." But it clearly wasn't. I had been experiencing the same effects for over three years, long before i started my medication. Unfortunately I wasn't so lucky and was promptly removed from hydrocodone (later they tried to justify this by saying that it was only hurting my stomach ...and tylenol doesn't?!??!").

But the symptoms are so weird and rare that most doctors would rather tell you you're suffering from withdrawals as opposed to actually fixing what's wrong. Especially ER doctors. I feel your pain!

[BakaBilly]

Well after 7 years of having this "mystery" disease Celiacs has been ruled out. Ive gone thru the tests, changed my diet a million times and things only just get barley better.

Recently they did a biopsy and found a small amount of evidence of Chron's disease. So thats what I say I have now.

However just as someone stated when I go to the ER with a Chrons flare up they say "this is all drug withdrawl" which is rediculous. For the first 6 years I never took anything for the pain. So every ER visit it was a "flare up" then the last 2 years I was taking perscription pain meds and suddenly all of my pain is from "withdrawls". Its as if im being written off so they can just get me out of the ER.

I cant stand it.

Recently ive had to exploit the system.

SWIM claims to have been an opiate addict for 2 years and gets methadone daily. Although SWIM was on opiates for less than 6 months. Basically SWIM pretends hes an addict to get pain meds. :/

It sucks. But it works.

[chansonGuy]

Damn, sorry to hear it wasn't Celiacs. When SWIM was diagnosed, his problems got MUCH better after a few months... Though every time SWIM accidentally ate some wheat, his pain comes back. However, SWIM no longer has or uses pain meds for that since SWIM knows what the problem is. :P Though he does still use for other reasons, he does have the pills if the pain gets unbearable!

Well, good luck to you. And I'm glad SWIY has managed to get something to help their pain! It really is too bad that ER's write off shit like this as "Withdrawals" cause frankly, they know damn well they aren't. =(

Take care!

Edit:

They also looked into SWiM for Chron's disease, and I'm very sorry to hear that is what you have. But hey, a diagnosis is better than being told you're in withdrawals right? ... Atleast a tiny bit. Too bad a simple diagnosis for that can't take the pain away =(

[Ranke]

As others have said, yes opioid withdrawl is physically painful. Swim is nearing the end of his withdrawl after quiting heroin. Despite his relatively small habit (1 to 1 and a half balloons a day) he was in intense pain during the worst of his withdrawl.

One way swiy may be able to differentiate between pain due to a medical condition and withdrawl is that at least in swims experience the pain from withdrawl is head to toe. Not isolated in one spot.