Combinations - cocktail for opioid withdrawal?

[JaWill88]

what could be good for opiate withdrawal? swim always uses benzos, almost always clonazepam like 1.5 - 2.0 mg per dose twice a day. but it definately isn't enough. how are muscle relaxers such as soma (carisoprodol) and flexeril (cyclobenzaprine)? swim has had methocarbimol, ate like 4 pills and felt nothing. and that wasn't in withdrawal. but swim has never tried soma and maybe others at all. would a cocktail of benzos and muscle relaxers be a good idea for withdrawal? and of course swim knows the dangers of mixing CNS depressants. swim is talking about moderate doses and no way overdoing it. anyways... anyone have any good cocktails for this? do muscle relaxers help for op withdrawal in a different way then benzodiazepines? swim wants to know more about them. thanks.

[t1rex]

Use clonidine! Forget about all those benzos, they dont work so good against opioide withdrawl.
In the best case they fight the cramps and the high heart beating. But clonidine works (or lofexidine in uk) direct against the overstimulation of cells. But dont take too much, cause it lowers your blood pressure very effective. This is limiting the clonidine dose. The best is one would have a blood pressure device. Kratom is also doing a good job. But nothing works as good as clonidine.

[bloot]

Originally Posted by t1rex

Use clonidine! Forget about all those benzos, they dont work so good against opioide withdrawl.
In the best case they fight the cramps and the high heart beating. But clonidine works (or lofexidine in uk) direct against the overstimulation of cells. But dont take too much, cause it lowers your blood pressure very effective. This is limiting the clonidine dose. The best is one would have a blood pressure device. Kratom is also doing a good job. But nothing works as good as clonidine.

SWIM didn't get much of any effects while using clonidine.

[t1rex]

many poeple knows about the helping effects of clonidine in a opiat withdrawl. This is not swims "personal receipt". There are medicals like lofexidine http://www.lofexidine.co.uk/main.html or Paracefan in Germany especially for that. It's the only non-opiat chemical substance that helps that much.

[JaWill88]

thanks for suggestion. swim knows about clonodine. but can anyone answer swims questions?

[Laudaphun]

SWIM was detoxed using only clonodine, chloral hydrate, and another med that helps the stomach. clonodine was adiministered via both pill and patch... 2 patches at once actually... catapress patches or soemthitn they were called... initially SWIM felt like he had a buzz, however when they took his blood pressure they immediately ripped the patches off of SWIM's chest. Apparently the buzz SWIM thought he felt was his blood pressure dropping dangerously low. The rest of the stay was miserable. SWIM stayed on clonodine but at a lower dose. This was a very uncomfortable detox. A tiny dose of chloral hydrate was added to the regimine only after they thought SWIM had walked out when he began to feel agitated and ripped the I.V. from his arm... The I.V. didn't contain anything important, might have been saline solution or whatever they would give to someone.

Detox #2 they were much less caring about the patients... nurses didn't want to deal with the group of junkies 24 hours a day. There SWIM was prescribed a muscle relaxer, along with 100mg librium(chlordiazepoxide), and a hoard of other junk. The librium, which is an old (the first actually) benzo was prescribed at 100mg every 3 hours. SWIM watched the clock all through the day/night and when it ticked 3 hours, SWIM was at the nurse's station with his hand out. SWIM was so doped up he was almost enjoying himself.

In SWIM's opinion benzos are your best friend if you dose yourself correctly and have a supply that will last for a week. Carisoprodol was used by a friend of SWIM's to help him sleep during withdrawl periods. The active metabolite of carisoprodol is meprobromate which what was used for anxiety very commonly before benzos were invented. So that might help a bit, but perhaps take it slightly ahead of time to give it a chance to build up a bit of the active metabolite which is what you want... This is only SWIM's theory.

[blackdb1]

Swim has gone through opiate withdrawal many many times! He has used an array of different meds to ease symptoms of W/D. He found that clonidine 0.2mg helped ALOT with the cold chills and sleep but not much else. Muscle relaxers (skeletal) he has tried all the most common ones and they somewhat help keep swim relaxed but mainly only effect sleep. Benzos worked wonders. Much better than muscle relaxers! Most times nowadays when swim has to withdraw he stocks up on all three if possible and it actually makes it bearable (swim hopefully wont have to ever worry about withdrawing again since hes been battling addiction and has been clean a couple weeks maybe three, anyways hopefully he will never have to go thru that again!
Another very helpful med that almost everyone knows about is methadone and while it has withdrawal too. If used in small, fast, tapered down doses it has actually got swim off opiates with no symptoms whatsoever! Of course everyone is different but swim would take 20mgs the first night right after showing withdraw symptoms, then wait a day or 2 depending on his dependancy at the time being take either 10mg second day or 7.5 or 5 mg third day and stuck it out from there on. Swim won't argue the point though some things work better for some than others.

[machine_elf]

Instead of benzodiazepines swim had success using kratom and lots of cannabis.

[soma]

SWIM has detoxed from a 300mg/day oxycodone habit with loads of carisoprodol, but he has a high tolerance to this substance. A good dose for most swimmers would likely be 1-2 350mg tablets, but swim took 4 and passed out for a good 5-6 hours. He would then awaken and re-dose. This went on for 4 days, and then he awoke out of withdrawels. This would probably be a dangerous dose for many people, so keep this in mind. This was the easiest withdrawel he has ever had, almost fun. He now doses 400mg/day of tramadol as a replacement substance for oxycodone, and he is functioning much better.

[machine_elf]

Originally Posted by soma

He now doses 400mg/day of tramadol as a replacement substance for oxycodone, and he is functioning much better.

Is this advisable? SWIY will now have both SSRI and opiate withdrawals to deal with when you come off the tramadol.

[JaWill88]

Originally Posted by machine_elf

Is this advisable? SWIY will now have both SSRI and opiate withdrawals to deal with when you come off the tramadol.

yes swim has ponderd this very much. swim has been on buprenoprhine (suboxone) for over 1 year now and has been on the highest dose possible (32mg per day 16mg 2x daily). the withdrawal is AWEFUL. it's not supposed to be as bad as others but thats when one is taking something like 4-8mg one per day for a few months. the withdrawal from that done with a decent taper wouln't be too bad but swims case is quite a bit different. swim is going to get on another opioid (shorter acting) for a month or two so he is physically addicted to that and then can detox off an opioid where the withdrawal is like a week instead of like a month or two (methadone and buprenorphine). then swim will detox with a cocktail like mentioned in this thread or maybe even buprenorphine but only for like 3 or 4 days. swim thought about tramadol but swim doesn't want to deal with opioid withdrawal as well as SSRI withdrawal. and tramadol is longer acting than codeine, hydro, morph, oxy, ect. so it would make sense that the withdrawal would be longer and that would defeat the purpose for swim. would codeine be best for swims situation? it would probably have the least severe withdrawal out of oxy and hydro and morphine (morphine withdrawal is probably the worst for short acting presctibed opioids). any opinions on this? swim hates having to take buprenorphine everyday. he gets absolutely no opioid effects from it at all what so ever, but if he doesn't take it, in a few days hes FUCKED!! any advise as to what short acting opioid swim should use. btw, which ever one it is, he will be using the least amount possible, just enough to be semi comfortable.

[soma]

To offer SWIM's take on the situation, he is functioning much better than he was during his oxycodone addiction. He now operates a successful business and doesn't feel that drugs are causing day-to-day life issues. Yes, he thinks tramadol is awfully addictive, but it can be procured cheaply and in mass, its not a controlled substance in the US, and it helps SWIM's depression that he has always experienced. For him, its a vast improvement over oxycodone addiction, but surely not ideal. And for the record, though tramadol withdrawel feels insanely odd and uncomfortable, its nothing compared to kicking oxycodone. He does feel that physical dependance develops very rapidly to this substance, but hasn't felt compelled to escalate his dose even once.

Also, JaWill, SWIM believes seeking a short-acting opiate is ill advised, as short acting opiates are often far more addictive than long acting ones. Take fentanyl, a very very short acting opiate, which is also one of the most physically addictive. Hydromorphone is another example. SWIM would suggest revisiting his plan, and possibly just dealing with his fate with the use of other substances, possibly using non-opiates.

[Jatelka]

Given that this is posted in "Downers and Sleepers", cocktails for opiate withdrawal should focus on this (rather than other opiates).

[static_vodka_420]

swim uses a few well planned dxm trips at the end of his opiate binge as it reduces the physical withdrawl symptoms and mental ones.. after about 3 days of this he switches over to 1 glass kratom tea , 1 350 mg carisiporadol(soma), 1 mg clonazepam, and immodium ad twice daily and then an additional 30 mg flurazepam before bed
in a few days he quits all of those accept the immodium kratom and soma and reduces it to once a day

then he waits around a week and completelly drops everything occasionally taking a tizanzidine if his back causes problems or a cup of kratom tea if he feels just generally shitty note he continues taking immodium daily as well

after a week of that hes done with everything and ready to start agian

he also is an everyday smoker of high grade marijuana and has to say thats the one condition it cant treat is w/d from opiates, weed just lifts you up then drops you down in a lower hole than before leaving swim to either smoke all his very expensive bud or to be completelly fatigued, craving more drugs of some kind, and with possible back pains so he actually lowers his marijuana usage during w/d

static_vodka_420 added 2 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by Jatelka

Given that this is posted in "Downers and Sleepers", cocktails for opiate withdrawal should focus on this (rather than other opiates).

is swims answer still acceptable he does mention both downers and sleeping pills among other things useful for treating w/d