International - Bilderberg group, conference

[BEEKSc1]

"The Bilderberg Group or Bilderberg conference is an unofficial annual invitation-only conference of around 130 guests, most of whom are persons of influence in the fields of business, media and politics."
The elite basically (behind closed doors) discuss the state of affairs. At the meetings and conferences, the media is looked down upon and not welcomed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberger

Journalist D. Estulin has covered much of what this group is about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Estulin

Books by Daniel Estulin
The Bilderberg Group
http://www.amazon.com/True-Story-Bil...9070196&sr=8-1
Los Secretos Del Club Bilderberg/ the Secrets of Club Bilderberg
http://www.amazon.com/Los-Secretos-C...9070196&sr=8-3

Familiar with Bilderberg Group?

[Alfa]

Is this actual? I mean is there such a conference coming and is it about drugs or was this just a general remark?

[fnord]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Is this actual? I mean is there such a conference coming and is it about drugs or was this just a general remark?

more info http://www.bilderberg.org/

[BEEKSc1]

Bilderberg: The ultimate conspiracy theory
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3773019.stm

[fnord]

key word here is theory...

not saying im not a believer,just pointing it out.

[Alfa]

So what's the point of this thread?

[BEEKSc1]

Exposure.
What does Swim think this conference is about?

Originally Posted by fnord

key word here is theory...
not saying im not a believer,just pointing it out.

Yea it's unfortunate that people are misled to believe the corporate media is truthful. Look elsewhere (within), the uncouth media is not going to give you answers.
http://www.infowars.com/

[fnord]

What does Swim think this conference is about?

control of the world media,and pushing power from governments and into the hand of multi national corporations,what else?

while yes im sure they are against the use of drugs globally and would probably be discussing enacting laws against such use i dont see much this has to do with this forum,so maybe this thread could be moved to some for all,or better yet you can make an informative sigline with usefull links so others can learn about this.

[BEEKSc1]

this news clip explains alot... it's on cnn (london)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rch&plindex=28

[Donny Devito]

familar? yes. is the group wrong? perhaps. what can we do about it? nothing or not much or a great deal? what do you think?

[BEEKSc1]

Swim thinks/sees that most people are conditioned to misbelieve that the masses can't influence what happens to us in the future. People letting their intelligence shine know that if people work together, our destiny is liberation. ie, individuals (specifics) can make a difference; together, we can make a change.

Originally Posted by Donny Devito

what can we do about it? nothing or not much or a great deal? what do you think?

Is up the group benign? Most likely not.
Is the Bilderberg group purely evil; to some extent, probably not. But many who attend the Bilderberg conference follow the same nefarious agenda =
international and supra-governmental domination of the world, which is primarily controlled by the corporations

So many people engage in double think that they do not know what hold true.
Know anyone like this?

"oh, I acknowledge that a New world Order is taking form, but I will not think or talk about so I can misled myself to believing that is not true."

The elite are trying to shape up a world where the people serve the corporations. It is "a big idea, a New World Order"

As Noam Chomsky said, it is a "poor system"
As Bill Hicks said, "And we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between *fear and love*. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as *one*. Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore *space*, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.

[FuBai]

Do you have any proof that this is not simply a frank political conference where those invited can speak freely with no fear of being reported or misrepresented in the press? Because it's exactly the sort of thing that I would want to do if I had some influence - shut the press out and speak freely. It could be a giant conspiracy - but the world could be controlled by an owl headed demon with a penchant for Moon cake.

"can we do anything about it" - the real question is should we be able to do anything about it. We are all entitled to our own privacy, no matter what our political or social standing is. This is a group of private individuals having a chat - it doesn't pass laws, it doesn't have any formal power whatsoever and as such is not something we should attempt to pry into, much like we wouldn't wander into someone's garden and stand with our faces pressed against the windows to see what the occupants are doing.

5 or more humans can barely work together and agree as it is, let alone a conspiracy of 130+ people, some of whom change every year - in fact I saw as much written on someone's signature on this forum - "Three people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead." If this thinking still somehow passes you by then apply Occam's Razor - is the simplest reason that it is a giant world conspiracy to ensure humanity at large's slavery to the corporate machine or is it a chat between powerful people who would quite like to meet each other and make connections?

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice

[BEEKSc1]

Originally Posted by FuBai

Do you have any proof that this is not simply a frank political conference where those invited can speak freely with no fear of being reported or misrepresented in the press?

You already have blown your "concern" by showing your provincial perspective, when you start it off …proof… (it's not compatible here)
We are not dealing in mathematics; these are behaviors, not relationships between numbers. As such physical and behavioral sciences deal with evidence; and yea, if one looks, he/she will find a boatload of credible evidence (have to pan out the David Icke) that clearly indicates the nefarious elite are up to *no*good, in the most widespread sense.

Originally Posted by FuBai

Because it's exactly the sort of thing that I would want to do if I had some influence - shut the press out and speak freely. It could be a giant conspiracy - but the world could be controlled by an owl headed demon with a penchant for Moon cake.

No, I think you have got it backward (possibly on purpose); Doesn’t the satanic elite worships the forty-foot owl?
Swim does not get you, man. Those are some crooked aspirations that you have. God bless your soul
If people who have those kinds of positions were good; why would they feel that they have to maintain secrecy?

Originally Posted by FuBai

5 or more humans can barely work together and agree as it is

So I take it you are not a musician? Even participated at a jazz performance? Think you would have that pessimistic point of view if you did play music?

Originally Posted by FuBai

"Three people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead." If this thinking still somehow passes you by then apply Occam's Razor - is the simplest reason that it is a giant world conspiracy to ensure humanity at large's slavery to the corporate machine or is it a chat between powerful people who would quite like to meet each other and make connections?

Unknowing Satanists can be the most dangerous; and we are not supposed to divert the issues

It's just not the Bilderbergs, it's Bohemian grove, trilateral com. security and properity act (North American Union) it's skull and bones, the masons, illuminati, CIA (an illuminati shot off) these are only some; there are so many more, I have heard that British intelligence agencies are just as evil as the US's
Dark Secrets in Bohemian grove
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0

Reputation Comments on this post:

too weird for me...

[fnord]

Unknowing Satanists? could you explain this to me?ive heard a few people talking about conspiracy theories and satanist lately.

[BEEKSc1]

there are varying degrees of what is being called Unknowing Satanist
one extreme: a totally mind controlled person; these children are ritually abused (before the child starts to develop a sense of ego) by satanists and the practice is carried onto their children, without any rational thinking, they beat the program into their children; because the program is so intense; they ritually abuse their children as if it was second nature; because the parents know "nothing different." Our psychological makeup can't handle such tramatic experiences, so the mind fragments itself. ie, a person would shows symptoms of Dissociative identity disorder, MPD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissoci...ntity_disorder
DID does not come out any other way than beside systematic sexual, physical, and spiritual abuse

low ranking (1-3) degree masons, which most masons are in the first, second, and third degree???
Attendees of Bohemenian grove, those just entering into the club

on the other end of the spectrum is a fanatic of Marx
I use to appreciate Marxism; but communism is still an authoritarian establishment

Marx was a *fraud*; plenty of evidence shows that he was funded German bankers

Marx was a God-hater; his work clearly shows it
Research Oulanem - a poem where Marx plays Lucifer, written by him

In "German Ideology" Marx referred to God in Hegelian terms as the Absolute Spirit. Marx opined, "we are concerned with a highly interesting question: the decomposition of the Absolute Spirit."(77) Another poem he wrote,

“Then I will be able to walk triumphantly,
Like a god, through the ruins of their kingdom.
Every word of mine is fire and action.
My breast is equal to that of the Creator”

“If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool power-seeking megalomaniacs… Communism, or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite.” Gary Allen

“Communism is not [and never was] a creation of the masses to overthrow the Banking establishment, but rather a creation of the Banking establishment to overthrow and enslave the people.”-Anthony J. Hilder

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1121228/posts


THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED: A SYNOPSIS

Evidence already published by George Katkov, Stefan Possony, and Michael Futrell has established that the return to Russia of Lenin and his party of exiled Bolsheviks, followed a few weeks later by a party of Mensheviks, was financed and organized by the German government.1 The necessary funds were transferred in part through the Nya Banken in Stockholm, owned by Olof Aschberg, and the dual German objectives were: (a) removal of Russia from the war, and (b) control of the postwar Russian market.2

1Michael Futrell, Northern Underground (London: Faber and Faber, 1963); Stefan Possony, Lenin: The Compulsive Revolutionary (London: George Allen & Unwin, 1966); and George Katkov, "German Foreign Office Documents on Financial Support to the Bolsheviks in 1917," International Affairs 32 (Royal Institute of International Affairs, 1956).

2Ibid., especially Katkov.

That’s the just the intro to the article here.
http://reformed-theology.org/html/bo...apter_11.htm#1

http://www.amazon.com/Northern-under...7592843&sr=8-6

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/...?Article=Books
Chapter 7.2: Marx, Engels and the Socialist International
http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/...=FinalWarn07-2

World War 1 and Communism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbzcj1YPR58

The Conspiracy
http://www.savethemales.ca/000305.html

Reading the reviews on this one was helpful.
http://www.amazon.com/Marx-Satan-Ric...7587939&sr=8-1

http://fhc.rodd.us/mrxsatan.html

THE HISTORY OF MONEY PART 3
http://www.xat.org/xat/worldbank.html

http://www.amazon.com/Naked-Capitali...7594952&sr=8-2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Makow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scruples_%28game%29

Central Bankers Seek Totalitarian Power
http://www.savethemales.ca/001297.html

http://www.amazon.com/Return-fathers...7588706&sr=1-2

http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/red-symphony.html

Communist Takeover Began Long Ago
http://www.henrymakow.com/000843.html

Communism & NWO: Wall Street's Utopian Hoax
http://www.savethemales.ca/160303.html

http://www.amazon.com/School-Darknes...7588100&sr=1-1

THE MEANS OF COMMUNISM
http://users.hubwest.com/prophet/articles/means.htm

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by BEEKSc1

You already have blown your "concern" by showing your provincial perspective, when you start it off …proof… (it's not compatible here)
We are not dealing in mathematics; these are behaviors, not relationships between numbers. As such physical and behavioral sciences deal with evidence; and yea, if one looks, he/she will find a boatload of credible evidence (have to pan out the David Icke) that clearly indicates the nefarious elite are up to *no*good, in the most widespread sense.



No, I think you have got it backward (possibly on purpose); Doesn’t the satanic elite worships the forty-foot owl?
Swim does not get you, man. Those are some crooked aspirations that you have. God bless your soul
If people who have those kinds of positions were good; why would they feel that they have to maintain secrecy?



So I take it you are not a musician? Even participated at a jazz performance? Think you would have that pessimistic point of view if you did play music?




Unknowing Satanists can the most dangerous; and we are not supposed to divert the issues

It's just not the Bildergerg's, it's Bohemian grove, trilateral com. security and properity act (North American Union) it skull and bones, the masons, illuminati, CIA (an illuminati shot off) these are only some; there are so many more, I have heard that British intelligence agencies are just as evil as the US's
Dark Secrets in Bohemian grove
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0

When you get some real evidence to back up your claims then I will be prepared to listen but as it is this post is in the wrong forum - because it's not about "Drug Policy and Politics ", it should probably be in the some for all area (or, seeing the ludicrous angle that the Unknowing Satanist thinking is going down, the mystical experiences and insights section), it has no serious evidence backing it up it and it looks like something Dan Brown would write (I use the word write here cautiously). Honestly I worry that if someone comes on these forums and reads this post first they are just going to have all their worst suspicions about drug users confirmed. I do not mean to offend but please look seriously at what you are saying and ask yourself - is this the world as it really is or is this the world as I want it to be, because at least if there is a conspiracy then someone is in charge and there's someone to blame for what ever personal mess you may or may not be in that isn't you. This is where I think most conspiracy theories come from.

P.S. We are talking about influential political and social thinkers here, not a goddam string quartet!

P.S. P.S. - Why would you want to maintain secrecy from the press? Is this a real question?

[chemlove]

The Bilderberg Group is surely real. It's actually a collection of some of the most important and influential people in business (mainly international) and finance, not to mention global leaders and their people through out the world.

Their meetings from what i have read are some of the most heavily secured in the world. And if your not wanted there you don't want to be there

Bill Clinton is just one really famous member of the group (and if he's not an official member) Its known he attended meeting before being elected President.

[BEEKSc1]

Originally Posted by FuBai

I do not mean to offend but please look seriously at what you are saying and ask yourself - is this the world as it really is or is this the world as I want it to be

What you are doing is a disservice to humanity and our God. Again, let divinity bless your soul

Dude, the only people you are possibly (by a far shot) offending/embarrassing is your fellow English. (About 2 years ago, Swim studied occupational psych at King’s College in England and had the opportunity to visit the Netherlands.) As such, Swim would expect this from an American; as a typical American is misled. But more of the English have known what’s going on for a while, as compared to us Americans.
It formed in England, before it carried over into the US. Rothschild, napoleon, central bankers funding both sides of wars… ring a bell?

Among other similar possibilities, you are associated with darkness, or you are seriously confused and ignorant. We all are conditioned to a degree; but other people are not sending out a corporately conditioned perspective. The media is not going to give you the answer; basically, academia isn’t going to give you the answer. The people, the answer?

Turn off the telly! Read, esp Aldous Huxley, read more. Don’t disseminate so much. Wake up, praise Jah, look within

And to show that what is being put out there by FuBai is nothing more than a regurgitation of corporate conditioning, Lou Dobbs has been (to some degree) reporting what is going on with the bigger picture since around Feb 2007

Lou Dobbs Announces New World Order
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rch&plindex=13

Lou Dobbs: North American Union Orwellian Brave New World
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=2

Originally Posted by chemlove

Bill Clinton is just one really famous member of the group (and if he's not an official member) Its known he attended meeting before being elected President.

[moda00]

Regarding Bohemian Grove.. I watched part of that movie, and it seems the undertone is that the Christian filmmaker is trying to demonize it by exposing things such as occult/satanic practices, orgies/gay behavior, repeatedly brings up that they "run around naked in the woods.." At one point, he is standing in a field by a fruit tree/bush of some kind, picks off a berry and eats it, and says something like.. "Mmmm. The fruits of nature," then pauses, and goes...Yeah, but I don't go around worshiping it!" He seems less concerned with exposing any sort of big brother/new world order, than with denouncing the immoralities of the non-Christian practices that take place. Just my two cents. I haven't finished it yet, I'm about a half hour in, so I don't claim to speak for it in its entirety, but I think I got a pretty good feel of his position and his aims in making the film.

One other thing- someone told me that the "Owl Club" that Shulgin refers to, the exclusive San Fran men's club where he plays in the orchestra once a week, is indeed the Bohemian Club. Now we all know who Shulgin is (and if you don't- he's an author and chemist who has synthesized hundreds of new chemical compounds)-- it does seem interesting that the powers that be, who are generally so clearly and strongly opposed to drug use or synthesis of any kind, would overlook this and accept him as a member. Shulgin stated something in his book, about he was in a rough patch, and had to make a decision between completely retreating into himself or re-emerging as a part of the world and the people around him. It seemed that his music and social participation there were one way to stay connected and have a healthy balance in his life. Perhaps also a way to maintain respectability- not speaking for Shulgin, just paraphrasing what I remember him saying in the book, which I re-read a few months ago.. my interpretation was that he felt it was important to remain connected to the people and society around you, and to set an example for your beliefs and lifestyle- ie. prove to the drug warriors that most of the individuals who use drugs and/or support decriminalization are not homeless or violent or antisocial- that they/we are of all walks of life, and contribute to society through our jobs, our families, the arts, etc. Again, I was discussing Shulgin's books with a friend and he mentioned that, so I don't claim to be an expert, but I did think this was interesting..

[Coconut]

Originally Posted by moda00

Regarding Bohemian Grove.. I watched part of that movie, and it seems the undertone is that the Christian filmmaker is trying to demonize it by exposing things such as occult/satanic practices, orgies/gay behavior, repeatedly brings up that they "run around naked in the woods.."

The problem with Alex Jones is that he mixes up a lot of valuable information and clever analysis with rubbish. There is nothing inherently evil about the occult or Satanism - no more so than Christianity.

I believe there is enough evidence to confirm the existence of the New World Order agenda and that yes, the world is run by a group of psychopathic lunatics, but Alex Jones can be a guide to the truth and an obstacle.

This thread is in the wrong forum, too, as was pointed out earlier.

[BEEKSc1]

Originally Posted by moda00

At one point, he is standing in a field by a fruit tree/bush of some kind, picks off a berry and eats it, and says something like.. "Mmmm. The fruits of nature," then pauses, and goes...Yeah, but I don't go around worshiping it!"

Good point; that is hilarious. Alex Jones has a sense of humor; it’s pretty much sought after, esp if you are doing what he is doin

Originally Posted by moda00

He seems less concerned with exposing any sort of big brother/new world order, than with denouncing the immoralities of the non-Christian practices that take place. Just my two cents.

Swim doesn’t see that all in Alex Jones. Swim wouldn’t nominate himself as a Christian; but who cares if, while exposing the evil plans of one world government, he adds some Christian commentary. Peter Tosh was a Christian. Jesus is a prophet, just as Bob Marley is.

Did you state that Sasha Shulgin is an attendee of bohemian grove? Swim would acknowledge it, he just hasn’t heard that or red that book

Originally Posted by c0c0nut

There is nothing inherently evil about the occult or Satanism - no more so than Christianity.

Are you kiddin yourself? How so?

Originally Posted by c0c0nut

This thread is in the wrong forum, too, as was pointed out earlier.

Wouldn’t you have to know the inclusiveness of subjectivity to make that call?

Originally Posted by c0c0nut

I believe there is enough evidence to confirm the existence of the New World Order agenda and that yes, the world is run by a group of psychopathic lunatics, but Alex Jones can be a guide to the truth and an obstacle.

Indeed; Alex Jones does provide and demonstrate a lot of noteworthy evidence. And he could cut out some of his commentary, like when he yells, “we are not your slaves” to attendees of bilderberg conference. Swim can appreciate the meaning behind it; nevertheless, other approaches seem better

Alex Jones is a key.

Ron Paul discusses true issue with Alex Jones

Alex Jones interviews Ron Paul
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=3

alex jones ron paul
http://video.google.com/videosearch?...-revision&cd=1

In that interview, Alex Jones greets Dr. Ron Paul; and Paul replies to Jones, “Good to be with you Alex.”

An interview with Daniel Estulin (author mentioned in first post) that concerns the Bilderberg group
2007 Bilderberg Meeting In Istanbul, Turkey - Dutch TV
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=8

[moda00]

"Swim doesn’t see that all in Alex Jones. Swim wouldn’t nominate himself as a Christian; but who cares if, while exposing the evil plans of one world government, he adds some Christian commentary. Peter Tosh was a Christian. Jesus is a prophet, just as Bob Marley is.

Did you state that Sasha Shulgin is an attendee of bohemian grove? Swim would acknowledge it, he just hasn’t heard that or red that book"

I agree that the ultimate goal of exposing such things and making known what is carried out in secret are more important than differing religious views. I considered myself a Christian for a long time, and while I no longer affiliate myself with organized religion, mainly because for me personally, I find my time and energy more productively spent on other things- but I do acknowledge that with any organized group, there will be the the pros and cons, the Jesuses and the Judases.. I don't think Jones' points are any less valid because of his religious affiliation.. I guess I should have made more clear, my problem with some of his initial commentary was twofold- one, that his anger/disgust with the situation, and his desire to expose it, seemed based in a desire to denounce certain things (ie. non-Christian religions, homosexuality/open sexuality in general, etc.) and that it seemed to divert the focus from what I see as the greater threat and much more important issue. Also, while I finished the entire video and am always glad to hear new perspectives and learn new things (well, not glad, but you know what I mean- it's good to know things, even if the things you know aren't always good..lol) he addressed certain issues in a way that could put people off from a clear and rational exploration of the issues- either through the religious statements, again, his prerogative, or through the somewhat aggressive way he pursues his agenda. No doubt sinister things go on in our government behind closed doors every single day, and this has been exposed and accepted as fact, but usually long after the fact. I guess I felt that by his focusing on the outrageous sounding claims, especially when interviewing the townspeople, ie. "naked people running around the woods," or when he kept referring to human sacrifice without making it clear that it was an effigy- not an actual human. Still, it's pretty gruesome in the context of the blatant disregard for human life, and life in general, demonstrated by the powers that be, but to point out these extreme, sometimes misleading statements, it almost seemed he was sabotaging himself- misrepresentation of facts, for one, and then on top of that, making it sound like our primary concerns should be the nudity, or the ritual, or whatever aspect, when there are many other things that I find much more appalling- the idea that these men have such a disgusting amount of power over other human beings, that the income and lifestyle of those making the decisions is so far off from the majority of people, that the government can say one thing- ie. denouncing a leader, or a country, or even a substance, as evil, and then, behind the back of the people who are supposed to trust them, give support or funding to the very individuals they denounced in public. It has happened over and over, and it's getting worse, but the powerful are always one step ahead. Of course, I can't claim to know much about Jones' background or his intentions, but I do agree that what is important is that he is taking action and trying to make information available for people to judge for themselves. I have nothing against this, or against him personally, or against Christianity. I just thought that some of his statements may have been counterproductive in some ways.

As for Shulgin, I don't want to claim to know something for sure and misrepresent anyone, especially not someone I respect as much as Shulgin. But I did have a lengthy discussion with a close friend who shared that with me, and it does fit with the context he gives in his books- its not like he attempts to disguise it- it seems to fit. He talks about an elite men's only club in San Francisco where he played in the orchestra, and where many rich and powerful men congregated. He called it the "Owl Club" (in his books, which I believe are printed as fiction, he changes his and his wife's names, and other details, but essentially tells his life story and the love story of their relationship, along with the second half of each book, which is dedicated to recipes and experience reports for the phenethylamines (PIKHAL) and tryptamines (TIKHAL) Since Bohemian Grove is reportedly represented by an owl, it seems to fit. While there seem some apparent contradictions if true, I also think it could be a good example of how to simultaneously follow your heart and live life in a way that is right for you, while remaining a contributing member of society and even hopefully having some positive influence. Strassman spent tons of time and effort going through the proper legal channels to get his iv dmt study approved, despite huge obstacles, and his success provides a template for other research with psychedelics and other controlled substances. Shulgin has created hundreds of new drugs, and made the chemical knowledge of these compounds available to the world- all the while maintaining a close friendship with a DEA agent and (purportedly) playing in the orchestra at Bohemian Grove. While some may say this is contradictory, and maybe it is, it is undeniable that these two individuals, just to give examples, among many others, have contributed hugely to the cause ("the cause" being a rational drug policy and freedom of consciousness, imho) in part due to their willingness to work with the system when appropriate, and to circumvent it entirely when it clashed with their strongly held beliefs and goals. We all have to draw our line somewhere, and set our goals, whether that be to simply explore one's own mind and surroundings as thoroughly as possible, or to help others in the drug community struggling with addiction, or answer newbies' questions, or change the drug-testing policy at our place of employment, or educate our families.. there are many ways we can live our own lives and consider ourselves happy/successful, and that doesn't necessarily mean stepping out into the public sphere or taking drastic action, but someone has to do it, and I think it's great that there are those who have been able to navigate the system towards betterment rather than fall prey to the allure of money or power.

[Coconut]

Originally Posted by BEEKSc1

Are you kiddin yourself? How so?

I don't think one can objectively denounce Satanism, or any religion, as evil. Christianity is responsible for the bloody slaughter of millions of innocent people. I may believe that some Satanist beliefs such as social Darwinism are ridiculous, but I also believe the same about many Christian (and other theist) beliefs.

Many world leaders seem to be obsessed with the occult (the Nazis were well known for this) but I do not believe that this makes the occult inherently evil. These people hijack reverence of sacred geometry, druidic symbols etc. and use it for their own purposes.

Originally Posted by BEEKSc

Wouldn’t you have to know the inclusiveness of subjectivity to make that call?

I was under the impression that this forum is reserved for discussion about drug policy reform and drug-related politics, but I might be wrong. If that's the case, I apologise.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Disagree with you about the consipracy stuff, but I have given up trying to reason with him and it's nice to see someone...

[VincentVan]

BEEKSc1 I'd love to know what source you have been patronizeing lately.

[BEEKSc1]

Originally Posted by VincentVan

I'd love to know what source you have been patronizeing lately.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/patronize
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/source

Like looking at the body of evidence and using discretion to pull out the truthfulness?

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/truthful

Swim does not quite get what you mean. Come again; would you rephrase or explain further what you are talking about?

Originally Posted by fnord

more info http://www.bilderberg.org/

In google, feel free to type in Bilderberg and search. Swim might most often find results similar to these, as first noted by Fnord.

http://www.google.com/search?q=bilde...ient=firefox-a

“Largest site on the net for information related to the transatlantic power elite policy makers known as the Bilderberg Group.”