What the "12 step program" really is....

[methMADMAN]

Essentially, all a 12 step program is, is a social club for people with problems that they can't deal with alone. In my case it was drug addiction. I have heard so many opinions on the thing I could write a book about the subject, but I really don't see the point.


The "addict" or "alcoholic", is in essence, and obsessive personality. I have come to believe we are people who just need to have an addiction, and just can't live without something to obsess about.. It's not really about quitting drugs for me, it's more about replacing them with a healthy "addiction". The 12 Steps that Bill Wilson and his cohorts, and perhaps "God" itself authored so many years ago, is a brilliantly therapeutic formula for self help.


I have found that in my personal quest to find "G.O.D.", that there are many paths to what I believe I have finally caught a glimpse of. I believe it can be found in any of the world's religions, or just as easily missed entirely. I have also seen atheists find it, whatever it is. I personally am an agnostic. I don't really know anything at all. What I do know in my personal version of reality, is that through working the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, and/or Narcotics Anonymous, is that I have found a comfortable way to live, no matter what life brings my way.


Once an addict, always an addict is entirely accurate in my honest opinion. I have done much research that backs this theory. I can never recover in this lifetime from the obsessive mind that I was blessed with at birth. It is an exceptionally talented, and efficient biological piece of machinery, and used properly is capable of great things. The double edge of that sword is that it is equally capable of complete self destruction if diverted by drugs and alcohol. I am now addicted to AA and NA. I will not lie, I have made them a habit. I love going to meetings. It's an integral part of my life, but I wouldn't have it any other way. If you have to be addicted to something, it might as well be self improvement, and helping others find the same "trudging the road of happy destiny", that those before you gave to you. For that my gratitude is boundless, and hopefully enduring for all the rest of my days.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	well thought and put, and I'm feeling ya'
	Very welll put and gave me some inspiration as to how obsessive personalitys can be a good thing is put to constructive ...

[jayjohnson81]

Well put...

Exercise is also a natural high - find something you enjoy to get that one. It's free too! (But the best view is at the gym, and you have to pay for that! ;O)

[methMADMAN]

Well one more thing. I see so much misunderstanding of it and outright lies being told on this board that I got pissed for a while and tried to fight it. My very 12 Traditions tell me not to do that. I have decided to stop.

In the final analysis though, coming from someone who has, and will continue working all 12 Steps, the things I have gotten from it are as follows:

• I no longer walk this earth feeling like a "less than", and while it's not perfect or consistantly always true, at least 90% of the time I see myself for what I truly am. A very intelligent, insigtful, deep, loving, creative, and multi talented person. I am no better or worse than anyone else, just different. I can't tell you how huge this gift is.
• The ability to walk through calamity, with calmness and purpose, and do the right thing in the face of inevitable pain thet everyone in this world has to face from time to time, without a crutch (drugs).
• A release from the boredom and worry that used to be a constant source of exasperation in my life. I realize now that things will be OK no matter what, or I'll die, and that too is ok when and if it happens.
• A release from the attachment to what is not real (i.e., money, material possessions). I want what I have more than I have what I want and that my friends is the secret of happiness IMHO.

I still strive for goals, but now I set realistic goals and look at what the mini goals are that need to be set in order to achieve the major goals. A lot of this stuff that has happened I can only speculate is a "divine gift", because it sure isn't "my" basic nature, that has effected these changes, and I still constantly slip back into old ways. The difference being now that when I do I am aware of it and aware of what to do to correct it. I suspect there is some creative intelligence behind the reality of the world we see. Most would call it "God" but if you asked me I'd call it "the force", but when I call it G-O-D, that stands for Good Orderly Direction. A dark side and a light side, both at my disposal should I decide to accept it's existence and use it for what its their for (guidance IMO). So I do pray, I call it god (though I really think of it as everything and nothing all at once).

The way in which I pray is like they told me to do in the book, and I don't usually make requests, because as my experience tells me, this thing never just gives you anything. Instead it gives you insights on how to acheive your desired goal, so long as your desires are divorced of seriously selfish and self serving motives. Nobody is perfect to be sure, but all that is asked is that we try. This thing though is NOT a judgemental man in the sky. It is within each and every thing living or no in this universe in my honest opinion. Beyond that, well until I pass from this level of existence, well I frankly don't really care. When I need to actually talk to it and ask questions, I grab my sponsor (one has 32 years, one 11, and one 5, because I have three), or another friend in the program I trust and ask their opinion about whatever dilemma I am facing. Generally I know what the answer will be when I ask the question, but ultimately I know that they can't make decisions for me, nor would they want to. The can though, act as mirrors, and when I am in error they can point it out, and why I am in error when I am unable to see through my will and the selfish motives driving it.

I have never in my life had more friends. All of them who truly care about my well being and that is a priceless gift. So go ahead and tell other people how 12 step programs that you have probably never even given an honest try, are total bogus crap, but I have ceased to care what you say, and I will not argue with you (unless I am in a bad way on that particular day and lapse into "stinkin' thinkin'". For you, for all I know, it may be true, but for me it's a heinous lie and I truly pity you for that belief.

May ALL of you, be blessed with a Happy New Year, and all the things I wish for myself in 2008.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good summary - I get many of the same things from AA

[Mr. Giraffe]

Originally Posted by methMADMAN

In the final analysis though, coming from someone who has, and will continue working all 12 Steps, the things I have gotten from it are as follows:

• I no longer walk this earth feeling like a "less than", and while it's not perfect or consistantly always true, at least 90% of the time I see myself for what I truly am. A very intelligent, insigtful, deep, loving, creative, and multi talented person. I am no better or worse than anyone else, just different. I can't tell you how huge this gift is.
• The ability to walk through calamity, with calmness and purpose, and do the right thing in the face of inevitable pain thet everyone in this world has to face from time to time, without a crutch (drugs).
• A release from the boredom and worry that used to be a constant source of exasperation in my life. I realize now that things will be OK no matter what, or I'll die, and that too is ok when and if it happens.
• A release from the attachment to what is not real (i.e., money, material possessions). I want what I have more than I have what I want and that my friends is the secret of happiness IMHO.

If you substitute 'mushrooms', 'MDMA', 'LSD' or other for '12 Step Programme', this sentiment abounds in trippers accounts of their experiences. It's interesting that absolute abstinence and enthusiastic experimentation can produce the same results in different people.

[stephy171072]

I really like what you have said here. I have always cursed my addictive personality on how much it has led me to self destruction but you are right in saying that this could actually be put to good use and if say your next addiction or obsession or whatever is to become a successfull internet millionair, who has a better shot at that than an addict?

[Spare Chaynge]

AA is not really needed to achieve all that you have described above. It might help if you are one of those who are incapable of enjoying higher pleasures. Their are other ways that are healthier, like simply making a choice to not use drugs. This does not require swapping addictions. What happens when AA goes away? Will you return to the old addiction? Would those friends of yours be your friend if you used drugs?

Of course debating AA philosophies are anti aa. The program does not want you to think to hard about them because you will find AA is illogical and self perpetuating.


Until you finally find that you prefer higher pleasures over lower pleasures you may be doomed to a believe in a cult like philosophy to maintain your sanity and happiness..

[suninmy_MOUTH]

NA saved SWIM's life. As they say, the program is for "people that want it, not people that need it". SWIM has tried introducing friends to NA/AA with not much luck. Also SWIM has tried to bring newfound friends back to the program after relapses etc. SWIM should know from his own story that if a person wants to use, they are going to. It's been hard though because SWIM has received so much from NA that he wants others to find recovery as well. Suppose the best thing is to lead by example and keep going to meetings for the newcomer.

[missparkles]

NA/AA provide a much needed support system for people who would otherwise have no one. If it helps another person stay clean or sober then it has to be good.
Swim has used NA and AA at times.
Yeah lots of people knock these organisations as being cultish, elitist and an addiction in themselves. Yes they may be all of those but they work for some, does it matter how they work?
Everyone needs structure in their life to feel comfortable so if they get it at NA/AA why not...it's a less harmful addiction than actively using.
Swim has an addictive personality and as such she has become addicted to pursuits such as exercise, reading and surfing the net. But shes still addicted...they're just healthier addictions is all.

[Leftöver Crack]

swim very much enjoys this thread started by the OP, it's rare to get a thought out thread like this about NA that's not NA SUCKS THEY CONTROL YOUR MIND THERES NO GOD ETC ETC.

swim is in NA; swim went there as a last resort because all other attempts to stay clean failed. he currently goes to 2-3 meetings a week (theyre mostly 30-45 min away swim would make more if they were closer) and has a sponsor. swim has relapsed while in NA, but stayed clean longer than he would have without NA. he is clean currently.

now the OP said
"Essentially, all a 12 step program is, is a social club for people with problems that they can't deal with alone." specifically, if we substituted "a 12 step program" with "NA", SWIM COULD NOT AGREE MORE!

this is swim's problem with NA, and he has asked his sponsor about this many times, but his sponsor won't be level and admit he sees the same thing. at meetings swim go to, there isn't just one or two, but the MAJORITY of people who speak, speak about NOTHING to do with drugs. "i have the kids this summer while theyre out of school, i have to do this and that and this and no one helps me..." they are NOT there because of a drug addiction, they are there because they treat it as a social club! their problems aren't related to drugs in any way. they drank socially years ago, or did coke once, and use that as being an "addict" so that they can go to meetings and have someone listen to their problems that's free.

IT REALLY, REALLY BUGS SWIM. it makes him not want to go there. now, many of the people there DO have legit drug issues; those are the people swim talks to there, and basically ignores the non drug addicts. as swim said, he asked his sponsor many times about it but his sponsor is not going to say "yeah, this woman and that woman dont belong here". the other thing swim always wonders and askes his sponsor about is why alcoholics come to NA. some of the meetings swim goes to, it's half alcoholics! there's a reason NA was created, and it was cause AA wasnt meeting drug addict's needs. i guess some alcoholics just like it better.

OP, i couldnt tell from your posts, are you in NA?

[missparkles]

Leftöver Crack,

Recovery isn't about swapping war stories in swims opinion, it's about day to day living. Relating to others who are struggling. NA and AA are about the addiction...not the using. Swim already knew about drugs and how to use she didn't want to spend her clean time talking about it.
For swim NA and AA are about support, off loading shit that could bury swim, shit that could eventually overwhelm her in such a way the only relief would be to use.
But everyone has a different take on what these organisations are there for. If it works for swiy then it works, regardless of how it works.

[Dickon]

Leftover Crack,

Alcoholics are welcome in NA because, according to the NA world-view, "alcohol is a drug" just like any other (except caffeine and nicotine which aren't for some reason).

I'm perplexed about the number of NA "groupies" you mention. My experience was that there were one or two NA groupies in the meetings in the UK cat went to who were mostly heavily codependent, had food issues or self-harm issues. But there weren't that many folk who wanted to sit around with a bunch of former junkies just as a way to pass the time!

A lot of talk in NA meetings is about day-to-day stuff that is not related to drugs. Once you've been off drugs for a while life takes over and it's more "normal" issues that becomes important.

Sparkles,

The swapping war stories can be important, especially for newcomers for whom it is often the sense of realising that they are not alone in what they are doing/have done. Often it is the deep sense of identification, a sense of "finding a home in NA" among fellow addicts/ex-addicts (in NA one is thought of as an addict always, never an ex-addict), that inspires people to clean up, become active in the fellowship and stay clean. The thought being something like "if he went through that and managed to clean up, so can I".

For those who want to know what goes on in an NA meeting, I've written about it extensively here: Narcotics Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous. Information on 12 step fellowships. [maybe I should have UTFSE and found this thread and added my post here! But I'm not merging these threads now]. There is a lot of negative stuff written on here about these groups and, although I have personal ambivalence towards them, I think a lot of the criticism here is ill-informed. Bear in mind too one thing I am increasingly learning, NA is not homogeneous. Having experienced one (or several) bad NA group(s) or one (or several) good one(s) does not mean that all NA meetings are bad or good.

I wish everyone well in finding the relationship with drugs that suits them best, be that excess, moderation or abstinence. For those that want or require abstinence, NA can be helpful.

Dickon

[chillinwill]

For rants about the good/bad discussion about NA, please check out the thread that Dickon started a while back called N.A. or not N.A?: that is the question. For or against 12-step recovery?

Red Rock personally thinks NA/AA is full of shit but thats just his opinion. However, without having gone to probably at least a 1,000 meetings total over his short life span, he wouldn't be where he is today over 15 months clean. It's not NA/AA that got him clean, but that 12 step program allowed him to aquire some of the good qualities about the program such as one day at a time and whatnot. Red Rock also believes that if NA/AA can help one person recover in their addiction, then he is all for it. One must keep in mind though that NA/AA is NOT the only way that sobriety can be reached nor is it the only way. It is just a way out of many in order for someone to stop their using and become a better person overall.

NA also allows one to find a social community that they can interact with other people going through some of the same issues. Of course, this forum can do the same type of thing (minus the person to person interaction) but it still provides a social community. NA/AA has its fallacies but it also has some benefits that one must determine if the 12 step program is going to be helping or hurting them. For more of Red Rock's viewpoints on this, check out the above thread because that thread deals with this very topic.

[missparkles]

Sparkles didn't think of it that way to be honest. Yes...it is about relating. She did find that too much drug relating can give her cravings and the urge to use. But there does have to be a common denominator...something everyone can identify with.
Thanks to Dickon for pointing that out to Sparkles...she does appreciate it.