What would be the ideal drug combo for vision quest/see into another dimension?

[I<3Salvia]

Swim has been thinking for a long time about drug combinations for certain purposes, in this case to totally leave this dimension on a vision quest. The goal here is to get as far out of this body, and this realm as possible, while having a spiritually meaningful and enjoyable trip. It's kinda like planning our transportation and then making sure we can have a good time when we get there. Come on people, swim knows everyone can come together and figure a drug combo, describe effect (hopefully swiy has done this before), then recommend how it could have been made better. Experience first, speculation second please. All posts are of course are welcome.

[FrankenChrist]

You don't necessarily need substances. If you starve yourself you could start hallucinating like Jesus when he needed some time alone in the desert.

[Nature Boy]

Why a combo? A heavy ketamine dose produces a visual, dissociative effect much like what you describe.

[Mescaloid]

Are SWIY thinking on combining salvia with other stuff? If so, things can get too weird to be described as "enjoyable"...

A full DMT dose should do the trick, although I can´t recomend it since it's illegal in your country.

[I<3Salvia]

Right on dude, let me try to explain the desired effect better. Once swim took a 5x dose of salvia, he expected nothing but the usual visuals he experienced (closed eyed, vague, nothing important or meaningful to his life) but something was different this time. As soon as he put the bong down swim closed his eyes. He started spinning into what appeared another realm. He had no memories of who he was prior to this trip, or why he was there when he reached this place, but he was completely aware that he was there. It was almost like a dream. He was on a rock face cliff, overlooking the greenest lushest valley of trees he had ever seen in his life. Down about 300 feet he could see a crystal clear stream. Across the valley another rock face cliff with the sun shining brightly in the clear blue sky. It was one of the most beautiful things swim had ever seen in his life. Suddenly he looks to his right. There is a woman dressed like Zena, with dark long dredlocks standing about 5 feet away. She says in this sort of robot voice, "Pick your time in place you wish to be in." Suddenly a playstation like menu pops up allowing swim to scroll from left to right to pick desired one. He clicks it and before he could blink, he comes back down spinning in sort of a vortex, only to find he's right back where he was. Swim didn't know who, or where he was for about 5 minutes but it all came back to him. The question is, is there a drug/drug combo that could create such an amazing meaningful experience as the one just described?

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by I<3Salvia

Right on dude, let me try to explain the desired effect better. Once swim took a 5x dose of salvia, he expected nothing but the usual visuals he experienced (closed eyed, vague, nothing important or meaningful to his life) but something was different this time. As soon as he put the bong down swim closed his eyes. He started spinning into what appeared another realm. He had no memories of who he was prior to this trip, or why he was there when he reached this place, but he was completely aware that he was there. It was almost like a dream. He was on a rock face cliff, overlooking the greenest lushest valley of trees he had ever seen in his life. Down about 300 feet he could see a crystal clear stream. Across the valley another rock face cliff with the sun shining brightly in the clear blue sky. It was one of the most beautiful things swim had ever seen in his life. Suddenly he looks to his right. There is a woman dressed like Zena, with dark long dredlocks standing about 5 feet away. She says in this sort of robot voice, "Pick your time in place you wish to be in." Suddenly a playstation like menu pops up allowing swim to scroll from left to right to pick desired one. He clicks it and before he could blink, he comes back down spinning in sort of a vortex, only to find he's right back where he was. Swim didn't know who, or where he was for about 5 minutes but it all came back to him. The question is, is there a drug/drug combo that could create such an amazing meaningful experience as the one just described?

Hmm...sounds like a combination of Tetris effect and a very active imagination. Tetris effect, if you are unfamiliar with the term, can be the transferring of visual representations, often repetitive electronic images, into the subconscious to the point where it plays into states of mind similar to dreaming. That might explain the whole PlayStation menu sensation.

There are ways to produce very lucid effects in one's sleep to the point where one can take literal control of their dreams, an activity that can be very rewarding in terms of internal visual fantasy. There are exercises which can promote this lucid state. Run a search of our forum and I'm sure you'll find a thread or two about it.

Lucidity can be achieved in dreams by looking out for specific signals in dreams that inform you that you are dreaming. This may be anything from noticing unrealistic actions or events from trying to read a block of text in one's dream. Another exercise involves sleeping for five hours, awaking for one hour and going back to sleep. This stop-start sleeping apparently increases the chance of lucid dreams. Check out the Wikipedia page on lucid dreaming. I remember seeing a lot of information about how to achieve the lucid state there.

[ejbot]

swim found 2x blotter hits DOB + 2x bong hits of XXX salvia extract while peaking on the dob... to be the most dissociative/vision quest type experience he has ever done.

[ejbot]

oh ps: the salvia lasted about an hour instead of the usual 10-15 minute trip.

swim would only recommend it to someone experienced in psychedelics.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very interesting... thanks for sharing

[I<3Salvia]

Thanks fo the input, will make note of it.

[Mescaloid]

Take a look on the thread bellow.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...ghlight=salvia

[Shampoo]

Along with the both spiritually and literarily revered Peyote (mescaline), the infamous Tabernanthe Iboga (ibogaine) is perhaps the most potent and venerated vision-inducing hallucinogen. Though a relative rarity in the states, due both to its legal status and its propensity for mind-blowingly intense journeys, the plant, and occasionally its derivatives can be obtained outside of its traditional use by the Bwiti tribe of South-Africa. The intoxication induced by ibogaine induction is long-lasting and produces vivid 'true hallucinations'. It is currently being researched for its proposed use as a successful treatment for addiction, though the exact mechanism of action is still widely debated. Perhaps the most well-versed literary scholar, both in experience and education, is Daniel Pinchbeck, whose travel found him deep in ibogaine intoxication under the social control of the Bwiti tribe. See both "Breaking Open The Head" and "2012" for experiences and historical description. (He notes in the later text that a common explanation for the rarity of ibogaine in the 'black market' is the penchant of the iboga-intoxication for creating in addicts a disillusion and disgust for their former chemical allies.) As for seeing into another dimension, iboga has been used primarily to induce vivid spiritual contact marked by fully visceral communication with the 'other dimension'. A common hallucination (as jungles in ayahuasca...) is the appearance of a literal window of vision into another world, or an animation of the past or present within the physical picture frame. The intoxication is not to be taken lightly, as it has been known to cause distinct psychological impact in those under its spell, though it sounds like swiy may be prepared for the most confronting experience possible...

of course McKenna would say high-dose mushrooms produce the true connection with the cosmic mycelia of the time-space continuum...

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting piece of info

[I<3Salvia]

Thanks for the great post shampoo!

[Matt The Funk]

Any dissasociatve in the "k-hole" doses....don't know what you would call them for drugs besides ketamine. Lucid dreams, meditation, starvation, psychosis, delerium, and DMT could all produce effects like this as well.

[CosmosSurfer]

Ibogaine , ayuhausca. Consumption of both should be chaperoned by a Shaman...
other dimensions , indeed.

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by CosmosSurfer

Ibogaine , ayuhausca. Consumption of both should be chaperoned by a Shaman...

...only if the swimmer desires a predetermined destination. Read up on ibogaine consumption and the shamanic rituals associated with it. There is a distinct heir of royalty and privilege associated with ibogaine ingestion that puts a significant psychological predisposition in the experience. Daniel Pinchbeck's book, Breaking Open the Head is entitled after a specific ritual performed by a non-Bwiti shamanic tribe in performing the ibogaine ritual. As a rite of passage, the inductee is given massive doses of the substance before being struck several times upon the head with a heavy hammer. This is said to induce an overwhelmingly powerful white light (hmmm... healthy?) followed by intense visualizations of 'another dimension'. However, during swimy personal and solitary experiments with ibogaine, similarly vivid and intense visual stimulation (that could very well be interpreted as 'another dimension') occurred, without the induction of thick blows to the head. The point is, a shaman exists to create a predisposition for induction as connectivity to a most-literal 'other dimension', just as a priest exists to create explanations for feelings of ecstasy, empathy, and fear as being a result of connectivity with god. To truly experience the other dimensions, one must venture into their vast realms without the assistance of a guide. There may be preparation necessary, or even a 'sitter', but the predisposition created by induction via shamanic ritual will without-question alter the experience. For the record, swim has experience both ayahuasca, mimosahuasca, and ibogaine induction. Ayahusaca induction was with a present shamanic induction, and swim found this to be of exceptional intensity with little to no lasting introspective value. If swiy is looking for a guided journey under the auspices of shamanic values, seeking entry to a predetermined destination of the 'other realm' sought after by the specific shaman at hand, then shamanic induction may be suitable. If swiy is looking however, for a genuinely introspective experience, stripping oneself of the ego to the point that it speaks to you in dense sentences, then a self-guided journey is a favorable ideal. Just as having Timothy Leary as your chaperone for LSD induction would've created a distinct counter-culture, disestablishment, colorfully pseudo-religious experience, induction of Ibogaine via shamanic ritual will have a similarly well defined destination, not to be strayed from.

[I<3Salvia]

Thanks for the insightful info Shampoo! Swim will keep note of this as he figures out how he will go about this trip.

Reputation Comments on this post:

please kept us updated on successes and failures. best wishes!

[Salvinorin A]

SWIY basically looks like he wants the amazing effects of salvia to last much longer. Basically, dissociatives would be swiy's answer....high dose of ketamine or 4th plateau dxm. However, since both are just horrible (maybe not ketamine) compared to this next suggestion....

SWIM's friend, who had had very similar trips on salvia....made a combination with LSD. Not only did the trip last longer (instead of 5 min, 15 min).....but when he came out of the intense effect......every time swiy closed his eyes, or even stared at something, he was in the salvia world again.....and his LSD lasted about 10 hours, which made him quite an amazing trip. But that still probably doesn't reach up to what swiy is looking for.

Speculation: DMT, from what swim hears from his friends' experiences, is just right for this. However...

Experience: Dissociatives.....the more dangerous ones....will get swiy there, and let swiy stay there for many many hours. SWIM doesn't recommend this.

[CosmosSurfer]

Originally Posted by Shampoo

...only if the swimmer desires a predetermined destination. Read up on ibogaine consumption and the shamanic rituals associated with it. There is a distinct heir of royalty and privilege associated with ibogaine ingestion that puts a significant psychological predisposition in the experience. Daniel Pinchbeck's book, Breaking Open the Head is entitled after a specific ritual performed by a non-Bwiti shamanic tribe in performing the ibogaine ritual. As a rite of passage, the inductee is given massive doses of the substance before being struck several times upon the head with a heavy hammer. This is said to induce an overwhelmingly powerful white light (hmmm... healthy?) followed by intense visualizations of 'another dimension'. However, during swimy personal and solitary experiments with ibogaine, similarly vivid and intense visual stimulation (that could very well be interpreted as 'another dimension') occurred, without the induction of thick blows to the head. The point is, a shaman exists to create a predisposition for induction as connectivity to a most-literal 'other dimension', just as a priest exists to create explanations for feelings of ecstasy, empathy, and fear as being a result of connectivity with god. To truly experience the other dimensions, one must venture into their vast realms without the assistance of a guide. There may be preparation necessary, or even a 'sitter', but the predisposition created by induction via shamanic ritual will without-question alter the experience. For the record, swim has experience both ayahuasca, mimosahuasca, and ibogaine induction. Ayahusaca induction was with a present shamanic induction, and swim found this to be of exceptional intensity with little to no lasting introspective value. If swiy is looking for a guided journey under the auspices of shamanic values, seeking entry to a predetermined destination of the 'other realm' sought after by the specific shaman at hand, then shamanic induction may be suitable. If swiy is looking however, for a genuinely introspective experience, stripping oneself of the ego to the point that it speaks to you in dense sentences, then a self-guided journey is a favorable ideal. Just as having Timothy Leary as your chaperone for LSD induction would've created a distinct counter-culture, disestablishment, colorfully pseudo-religious experience, induction of Ibogaine via shamanic ritual will have a similarly well defined destination, not to be strayed from.

Nothing was said either way in regards to a 'predetermined destination'..that is completely a subjective concept

While Pinchbeck was in Africa taking part in the ritual I do believe there was direction within his experience...it's been a while since I read 'Breaking Open the Head' ....his recent 'The return of Quatzequatl' was a bit too far out theory wise for me. But to believe a Shamantic presence would be detrimental and/or even completely prevent a individual from reaching these 'dimensions' to me is fraudulent.
ALL trips are ego-deflating.

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by CosmosSurfer

Nothing was said either way in regards to a 'predetermined destination'..that is completely a subjective concept

While Pinchbeck was in Africa taking part in the ritual I do believe there was direction within his experience...
But to believe a Shamantic presence would be detrimental and/or even completely prevent a individual from reaching these 'dimensions' to me is fraudulent.

The concept of a predetermined destination is based on the impact of 'set & setting' on the psychedelic experience. The introduction of a non-endogenous element implies an immutable alteration of this prominent factor in destination determination. It was never implied that the presence of a shamanic practitioner could prevent an individual from reaching these destinations, but rather that the destination will have been impacted by the presence of the shaman (positively or negatively, swim cannot make this judgement for anyone but him or herself). Without the shaman present, one can rest-assured that the elements of the integral experience are of endogenous origin. This is not to say that the experience with the shamanic presence is in any way invalid, but rather different, and the impact implied on 'set & setting' should be evaluated and understood before embarking on the journey. A predertemined destination is however commonly based on expectations presented by the shamanic presence, as is outlined in "Breaking Open the Head", as well as the more prominent writings of Huxley and his experiences with mescaline induction. In Pinchbeck's induction into the Ibogaine experience, which was in many ways a journey intended to reach a predetermined destination, he finds himself confronted by the fact that he has not reached this destination, and in doing such, augments his understanding of his experience to better fit the expectations of the assumed destination. The Shamanic inductor steams furiously asking, "When will he see the castles?" Pinchbeck has many vivid hallucinations, which he first interperits as of endogenous origin, but later attributes to the wisdom placed within him by the Iboga spirit. He is later told that the woman he saw in his visions was the Iboga spirit, and that he must make contact with it. He was also scolded on several occasions for not divulging the visions he experienced, and professed a distinct discomfort as a result, which undoubtedly had great impact on the 'trip'.

These details are besides the point. The bottom line is that his experience was in many ways shaped by the shamanic presence, and the value of this presence should be considered heavily as a prominent factor in 'trip' determination, and not as a requirement for valid induction.

[CosmosSurfer]

Thank you for your articulated answer my friend, it's appreciated.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good conversation. Appreciate the dialogue.

[I<3Salvia]

Thanks guys for keeping up the discussion, and adding some much helpful info. Swim is trying different hallucinogens right now (2c-I, 2c-e, mescaline from San Pedro), along with trying to get hold of some mushrooms and lsd. Thanks Shampoo for the info on Ibogaine. Swim is much, much intrigued about this drug and will try to find some of this when he feels he's ready for it. Also swim will check out the book you guys recommended. As soon as swim finds the combination he feels would provide a meaningful, spiritual, "mind opening" trip swim will report back to you all.

[heroin_ed]

One acronym... DMT

[LSD-25]

Add nitrous.

[Salvinorin A]

Yeah....DMT is quite enough...especially the higher doses.

Or Salvia + DXM......but mostly dmt.

[Desertfox]

LSD + nitrous has always brought me safely, mostly without fear, to other realms