What to do if the cops come for you....

[jkolt89]

The following article is from a leaflet that has been distributed by the
Libertarian Party in New Jersey. Written by an attorney, it deals with
the subject of talking to police or other government agents.

************************************************** ***********
**** DON'T TALK TO COPS ****
************************************************** ***********

By ROBERT W. ZEUNER, Member of the New York State Bar

"GOOD MORNING! My name is investigator Holmes. Do you mind
answering a few simple questions?" If you open your door one day and
are greeted with those words, stop and think! Whether it is the local
police or the FBI at your door, you have certain legal rights of which
you ought to be aware before you proceed any further.

In the first place, when the law enforcement authorities come to see
you, there are no "simple questions." Unless they are investigating a
traffic accident, you can be sure that they want information about
somebody. And that somebody may be you!

Rule Number one to remember when confronted by the authorities is
that there is no law require you to talk with the police, the FBI,
or the representative of any other investigative agency. Even the
simplest questions may be loaded and the seemingly harmless bits of
information which you volunteer may later become vital links in a chain
of circumstantial evidence against you or a friend.

Do not invite the investigator into your home! Such an invitation not
only gives him the opportunity to look around for clues to your
lifestyle, friends, reading material, etc., but also tends to prolong
the conversation. And the longer the conversation, the more chance
there is for a skilled investigator to find out what he wants to know.

Many times a police officer will ask you to accompany him to the
police station to answer a few questions. In that case, simply thank
him for the invitation and indicate that you are not disposed to accept
it at that time. Often the authorities simply want to photograph a
person for identification purposes, a procedure which is easily
accomplished by placing him in a private room with a two-way
mirror at the station, asking him a few innocent questions, and
then releasing him.

If the investigator becomes angry at your failure to cooperate
and threatens you with arrest, stand firm. He cannot legally place
you under arrest or enter your home without a warrant signed by a
judge. If he indicates that he has such a warrant, ask to see it.

A person under arrest or located on premises to be searched, generally
must be shown a warrant if he requests it and must be given a chance
to read it.

Without a warrant, an officer depends solely upon your helpfulness
to obtain the information he wants. So, unless you are quite sure of
yourself, don't be helpful.

Probably the wisest approach to take to a persistent investigator is
simply to say: "I'm quite busy now. If you have any questions that you
feel I can answer, I'd be happy to listen to them in my lawyer's
office. Goodbye!" Talk is cheap. But when that talk involves the
law enforcement authorities, it may cost you, or someone close to you,
dearly.

P.S. "This leaflet has been printed as a public service
by individuals concerned with the growing role
of authoritarianism and police power in our society.
Please feel free to copy or republish."

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good information
	Very Interesting!
	I liked the information, have read most before, but i believe everyone on here should be directed towards this info.
	thanks for this, all seems correct.

[hh339]

Yeah. Don't say anything, it won't do you any good. But of course they will try to make you believe the opposite, don't fall for it. Let your lawyer do the talking, if they won't let you leave before talking.

[Joe Duffy]

Interesting, I’d like to know what the situation is in the Republic Of Ireland with our police officers.

[Mr. Giraffe]

Originally Posted by Joe Duffy

Interesting, I’d like to know what the situation is in the Republic Of Ireland with our police officers.

You have to give them your name, address and date of birth. That is all. You do not need to answer any questions, though refusal to answer questions during police interregation (when arrested) can now be used as an inference of wrong-doing. Our government quietly did away with the whole right to silence thing in 2006 if I remember correctly.

Incidentally, other things they can do without a warrant includes searching your person and your car (but not your house), and you can only be searched after being arrested, though refusal to submit to a search can be taken as an inference of wrong-doing and you'll then be arrested on suspicion of drug possession.

In short, you're pretty much boned.

[Dark_Man_Of_Peace]

If the cops come keep you're mouth shut!

[Euphoric]

SWIM has talked his way out of trouble with cops. He had pills that the cops thought were E. SWIM at first said he'd like legal counsel but the cops straight out said they could haul his ass to the station and arrange that (and have SWIM rack up legal fee debt) or he could answer some questions and perhaps walk free that night. As his friend was in cuffs too he chose the latter. He explained the pills were BZP, and the cops were suspicious, but SWIM guesses by answering the questions and being polite SWIM was deemed non-threatening and waste of time/money to imprison (thank goodness!!!) The cops told of the dangers of amphetamines, saying how anything can be in pills. SWIM swore the pills were not illegal and suggested the cops through them in the baggy he's seen on TV to test them. They said they don't have any and it would cost money likely at SWIM's expense to have them tested. They made SWIM throw his pills in the garbage and let him walk. SWIM was very lucky. SWIM realizes that this was quite a unique situation and there have been many more where talking to cops is nothing but trouble.

[Pondlife]

Originally Posted by Euphoric

SWIM has talked his way out of trouble with cops. He had pills that the cops thought were E. SWIM at first said he'd like legal counsel but the cops straight out said they could haul his ass to the station and arrange that (and have SWIM rack up legal fee debt) or he could answer some questions and perhaps walk free that night. As his friend was in cuffs too he chose the latter. He explained the pills were BZP, and the cops were suspicious, but SWIM guesses by answering the questions and being polite SWIM was deemed non-threatening and waste of time/money to imprison (thank goodness!!!) The cops told of the dangers of amphetamines, saying how anything can be in pills. SWIM swore the pills were not illegal and suggested the cops through them in the baggy he's seen on TV to test them. They said they don't have any and it would cost money likely at SWIM's expense to have them tested. They made SWIM throw his pills in the garbage and let him walk. SWIM was very lucky. SWIM realizes that this was quite a unique situation and there have been many more where talking to cops is nothing but trouble.

So SWIM had some perfectly legal pills (assuming they were BZP, and BZP is not illegal in your area), the cops made him throw them in the bin, and he's happy about it? I think that's quite sad. I suspect I would feel exactly the same way if it happened to me, which is sad as well.

I like the line "we can test them, but we may charge you for the costs of the test" WTF?

I think that there are times like this where, if you know that you are on solid ground, talking and being polite can result in less hassle. but the end result would almost certainly have been no charge either way, SWIY just avoided a trip to the station and the associated timewasting.

The only other caveat is that in the UK, and perhaps other jurisdictions as well, just getting arrested can have negative consequences even if you are subsequently released without charge. For example, you will have your DNA and fingerprints taken and stored. You're also not allowed to fly to the US on the visa waiver scheme, so trips over the pond become more hassle. With this in mind, it can sometimes be worth talking if you know you are clean, and you are in a fit state to talk.

However, if you are at all unsure, then I think the original advice is spot on. I've heard of many people who've talked themselves into trouble, or made their defence much more difficult, and very few who have talked themselves out of it when there has been a real case to answer.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good points.

[Police Officer]

That "leaflet" contains flawed information and advice.

I.E. Police can't arrest you without a warrant? This must be new-or innacurate. Say I catch a guy with a gram of meth on a traffic stop. Do you think that I'm running to a Judge in the middle of the traffic stop, or do you think that I'm going to make a warrantless arrest upon probably cause that the person has committed a crime as is specifically allowed per Supreme Court rulings?

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

That "leaflet" contains flawed information and advice.

I.E. Police can't arrest you without a warrant? This must be new-or innacurate. Say I catch a guy with a gram of meth on a traffic stop. Do you think that I'm running to a Judge in the middle of the traffic stop, or do you think that I'm going to make a warrantless arrest upon probably cause that the person has committed a crime as is specifically allowed per Supreme Court rulings?

He was talking specifically about police men coming round to your house and knocking on the door. Of course if you catch someone in the act of committing a crime then there are clauses that allow an arrest without a warrant, however, to the best of my knowledge, if the person in question is being sought out (not in active/hot pursuit) and that this is known in advance a warrant has to be issued by a judge in most cases - I don't know exactly what America's anti-terrorism laws now allow the police to do and I shouldn't be surprised if they in some way contradicted this.

[Police Officer]

Originally Posted by FuBai

...however, to the best of my knowledge, if the person in question is being sought out (not in active/hot pursuit) and that this is known in advance a warrant has to be issued by a judge in most cases

Not exactly. I'll give an example. I had a guy who was wanted for questioning in conjuntion with a strong armed robbery where physical harm was inflicted. You guys will love to know that it was drug related. Anyway, we found the guy an hour later. I incarcerted him without a warrant. I then applied for a warrant while he was incarcerated.

If we are looking for a person and have probable cause to arrest then we can effect a warrantless arrest. The above would not have been different if I found him a month later. As long as the statute of limitations has not expired I am allowed to arrest without warrant.

[jkolt89]

FuBai, thanks for explaining it so I didn't have to.

[chemlove]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

That "leaflet" contains flawed information and advice.

I.E. Police can't arrest you without a warrant? This must be new-or innacurate. Say I catch a guy with a gram of meth on a traffic stop. Do you think that I'm running to a Judge in the middle of the traffic stop, or do you think that I'm going to make a warrantless arrest upon probably cause that the person has committed a crime as is specifically allowed per Supreme Court rulings?

It's important to divide the two situations. The one your referring to is an example of caught red handed. Yes if your Pulled over for speeding and your straight amped up and he looks around and sees your stuff laying around, your right he's not going to a judge your going to jail no doubt but with a little discreetness you probably could avoid most these situations.

If you haven't done anything illegal or if the police/branch of authority just knocks on your door its a different situation all together. At that point all you have to do is loose leverage. Politely deny their request for information, and take it up at a later date with an attorney, or w/ those you trust. Don't answer any questions ID any people in any pictures, remark to the where abouts of anyone you may know, or at least know of. See what happens in most cases is they get your worked up and get that little piece of information they need to either get the next link in a chain or they could even get the info needed to take down friends of yours even parents and other important people in your life.

the bottom line is "no body knows no body" don't tell them anything use the term i don't know until they are either sick of talking to you, or until they are satisfied you don't know anything. If you have a warrant then sorry chances are your going down to the station, so don't say anything until they have to give you a lawyer to further advise.

[rxbandit]

Originally Posted by Euphoric

SWIM has talked his way out of trouble with cops. He had pills that the cops thought were E. SWIM at first said he'd like legal counsel but the cops straight out said they could haul his ass to the station and arrange that (and have SWIM rack up legal fee debt) or he could answer some questions and perhaps walk free that night. As his friend was in cuffs too he chose the latter. He explained the pills were BZP, and the cops were suspicious, but SWIM guesses by answering the questions and being polite SWIM was deemed non-threatening and waste of time/money to imprison (thank goodness!!!) The cops told of the dangers of amphetamines, saying how anything can be in pills. SWIM swore the pills were not illegal and suggested the cops through them in the baggy he's seen on TV to test them. They said they don't have any and it would cost money likely at SWIM's expense to have them tested. They made SWIM throw his pills in the garbage and let him walk. SWIM was very lucky. SWIM realizes that this was quite a unique situation and there have been many more where talking to cops is nothing but trouble.

Swim has also used this tactic. swim got pulled over for suspected drunk driving late at night and insisted the officer breathalyze him so swim could be on his way. He was a bit aggressive with this suggestion despite the fact he had a bit to drink and had a good deal of pot in the car. The cop backed off, apologized for the inconvenience and let swim go.

I feel like if you make a cop feel like they are wasting their time they will be far less likely to pursue the "bust". although this could also backfire as you are in essence giving consent to something that could screw you over, but if its inevitable anyways why not...

From a minor police report swim had written up he confirms that cops will twist your language to make it sound ten times more incriminating and threatening. In swims report they also took some artistic liberties with interpreting swims mannerisms, such as glances and head shakes.

stay as stoic and unemotional as possibly, while not talking... or so swims experiences would suggest

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for sharing.

[umbra1010]

I quote Busted "The only purpose of a cop is to prosecute you". Sometimes you get a nice one once in a while, but most of the time they will try anything to get you to talk. Thanks for some good advice.

[Euphoric]

They were legal and SWIM was pissed at first and is still pissed about it in some ways but he realizes it could have been worse. It does still seem unjust but the police did put substantial faith in SWIM because he would have been in deep shit if they had meth or MDMA in them as they suspected. And then what if SWIM did go the hard route and the manufacturer of the party pills actually put something illegal in them? This isn't financially sensible, but it's not entirely unheard of. Perhaps it's possible that the BZP/TFMPP pills would be treated as analogues of something illegal. Given the current laws and the power of the police, SWIM is grateful that things weren't any worse.

[Oxycontin]

This is really good info everyone should know. Swims been in police interrogation rooms before and this info still applies.

The police had Swims wallet which he lost while fucked up. They told him he could come pick it up at the station, and when he walked in they threw him right into interrogation room. They put infront of Swim his wallet, real drivers license, and fake ID. They had one cop sitting in front of swim and one sitting behind him. They tried to tag team Swim with questions or something gay like that. Anyway Swim had a feeling this would happen so it didnt surprise him too much.

When interrogated swim didnt answer anything except name and address. Alot of the questions they asked were seemingly innocent, ie. "How much did it cost?" "this is your wallet right?" and shit like that. They even accused swim of being part of an ID making ring, or having info about one. Basically nobody talks there way out of anything, thats what lawyers do for you. If you have done something wrong, any info you give them can be used to hurt you later in court.

After a short while of this they got frustrated and told swim to leave haha. swim ended up getting felony charges bumped down to misdemeanor charges, then eventually after a 3 month probation period he got all charges dropped. Score one for the bad guys, I mean good guys.... wait which one is swim again?

[Capn_Danger]

Busted: Know Your Rights is fantastic. Grab a bag of chips and enjoy the show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjM...eature=related

Here's the groups website:

http://www.flexyourrights.org

And of course, the ACLU has a lot to say on the matter of asserting one's rights:

http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html

[jkolt89]

Originally Posted by Capn_Danger

http://www.flexyourrights.org

And of course, the ACLU has a lot to say on the matter of asserting one's rights:

http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html

Awesome Info for Everybody

[jkolt89]

As far as swim knows, the car can only be searched without consent if cops see or smell something suspicous from outside of the automobile. Otherwise, they have to ask for consent which they will pressure swiy into giving them or they will call in the K-9's and have them sniff around the outside of the car. If their is a positive response from the dog they can at that time search the car. Cars are not very secure when it comes to cops b/c if they want to they most likely will find a way to search it

[Mr. Giraffe]

Originally Posted by jkolt89

As far as swim knows, the car can only be searched without consent if cops see or smell something suspicous from outside of the automobile.

In Ireland, cops can search the car if they have any suspicion. Don't need warrant, anything, just, y'know, a hunch.

[jkolt89]

Originally Posted by Mr. Giraffe

In Ireland, cops can search the car if they have any suspicion. Don't need warrant, anything, just, y'know, a hunch.

And then they see that someone who isn't us lives in a FREE country! Yeah, free as long as swi us do what they say.

[ninjaned]

I quote Busted "The only purpose of a cop is to prosecute you". Sometimes you get a nice one once in a while, but most of the time they will try anything to get you to talk. Thanks for some good advice.

well swiy has to remember, cops are people, you get good ones and bad(although it seems like more bad than good). treating them(or anyone) like shit just because of their job is sure to make them angry. so while everyone should know their rights and be prepared to exercise them, please don't be an ass to cops unnecessarily.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	weirdly redundant and patronizing in the context
	undeserved negative rep- good points.

[nomud]

Governments plant evidence all the time.Not rare at all.Sometimes they lose evidence too.Most of the time their motivation is they want your cash and control is what they'll all about.That said keep in mind sway could be recorded by hidden microphone or camera,best to deny all and look at them like they're crazy.Even if they got the goods on you.Here is example.Government pats you down,one cop has baggie in their hand already and acts as though it was pulled out of your pocket,other cops witness that,not knowing evidence was planted by cop doing pat down.

[ninjaned]

ok i'm sorry if anyone thought that swim was being patronizing, he was just saying that its wrong to treat people badly because of their jobs. also swim doesn't get the redundant part... how was what he said in anyway redundant? please let him know, hes not here to be a jerk and someone obviously thought that he was.

[trixion]

Some things swim pick up on the streets....before any officers can search swiy. One of the most basic question will be regarding the offier particular. Ask for his verfitication documents and ensure that his rank, name and police identification number matched. Before body search....Swiy can say :"Show your hand." The officer doing the search will have to let swiy check his hands to ensure that planting arguement do not take place. Keep answers short and neat. Once upon reaching the station, swiy is entitle a phone call. Try to make use of that last chance to seek sos. If lawyer is engaged and on the way...swiy can have the lawyer at the room during questioning...
Hope the street learning can assist swiy from trouble...!