Health - Ok. This is something I have always wanted to know about opiate dependents

[chronicpain247]

A long time ago before Swim had ever even tried Opiates or knew what they were, with the exception of his Dad's Tylenol 3's, a friend of his who was much older and more seasoned in the drug world, told him that people who used opiates on a regular basis do not get sick! Now Swim is not talking about "dope sick" from lack of supply, he is talking about the common cold.

This Friend had told swim that people who use daily, develop some sort of immune system defense against the average cold and things like the flu. swim don't think he was talking about more serious illnesses like cancer and things like that, but just the everyday type of sickness that most people get in the winter months.

Now I know this sounds silly to Swiy, as it did to Swim. Like dope turns you into the "super-junky" who is indestructible or something, but years later after suffering from years of chronic pain and treatment with narcotic analgesics, swim thought back to that conversation he had with that friend and came to realize that as long as swim can remember having a steady flow of opiates he has not had a cold!! Its has got to be at least 2 years since swim has had a head cold or needed antibiotics for a Upper respiratory infection. Swim is a smoker, lives in cold winter area of the states, and used to get Bronchitis every winter, but since he started consistent use of opiates he hasn't had one yet.

What is also odd, is that when swim has had to dry out for one reason or another, in addition to getting the usual "dope-sickness", he usually comes down with some kind of cold or Upper resp. infection too.

This is something Swim has tried to look up all over the webernet, but only get results about with-draw when using search terms like: opiates, sickness, cold.... of course, not surprising, huh?

Unfortunately the friend of swim's, although incredibly intelligent and a talented musician ended up being a crack smoker, shortly after losing touch with him, he got badly beat one night in a smoke house, and lost most of his motor skills and speech ability, so swim never got a chance to ask him what he meant and if he was serious or not.


Maybe we should send this one to Myth-busters??! LOL!! I could see it now! "Jamie and Adam will get themselves addicted to narcotics in the name of science and take dilaudids everyday for 3 months, then subject themselves to a culture of bacteria in a petri dish." HA!

Anyway is this just absolute poppy-cock (no pun intended) or is there some amount of creditability to this?


anyone?

[Lethargy]

I have a theory (Just a theory, no evidence to back it up whatsoever) that stress causes sickness, or immune system vulnerability which allows the microorganisms to propagate to the point of causing sickness. In modern times often we get sick when we need comfort or to get taken care of or held, now in Leary's 8-circuit model opiates activate first circuit bio-survival security and make us feel secure, comfortable, and in a womb-like or mother-like embrace. If SWIY like most of us only gets sick when SWIY needs "mothering" then it would perhaps make sense that since SWIY has Mother Opium (or her Sisters) SWIY does not get sick. Obviously more pernicious diseases would still affect such a person, but the common cold and flu not so much.

Again, just a theory cobbled together from a jumble of other theories, no evidence or scientific support whatsoever.

[beentheredonethatagain]

opiates are used as a cough supressant. that could be why no more colds.

[chronicpain247]

Originally Posted by beentheredonethatagain

opiates are used as a cough supressant. that could be why no more colds.

hmm. Yeah thats true but, like you said a suppressant, not a deterrent or an immune booster. I would agree with you if swim had a cold but no cough or something like that but, Swim would still have the other symptoms, like sinus pressure, stuffy nose, achy feelings.

No. Swim is talking about not getting sick at all, not getting sick but feeling good anyway, but that is true, maybe it has something to do with the myth.

it is very possible that swim just has been lucky and is experiencing some placebo effect, and is using more "mind over matter" than anything else.

[chronicpain247]

Originally Posted by Lethargy

I have a theory (Just a theory, no evidence to back it up whatsoever) that stress causes sickness, or immune system vulnerability which allows the microorganisms to propagate to the point of causing sickness. In modern times often we get sick when we need comfort or to get taken care of or held, now in Leary's 8-circuit model opiates activate first circuit bio-survival security and make us feel secure, comfortable, and in a womb-like or mother-like embrace. If SWIY like most of us only gets sick when SWIY needs "mothering" then it would perhaps make sense that since SWIY has Mother Opium (or her Sisters) SWIY does not get sick. Obviously more pernicious diseases would still affect such a person, but the common cold and flu not so much.

Again, just a theory cobbled together from a jumble of other theories, no evidence or scientific support whatsoever.

Is Swiy an opiate user, Lethargy? If so has Swiy noticed a opiate induced immune boost?

Thats a very interesting theory though. Kinda along the lines of what swim was thinking, but his theory was not as deep, "mind over matter". I do believe strongly in the power of the Human mind. Kinda like how magic only works for those who believe in it.

It reminds me of something I read once about the Native Americans curing diseases like small pox and TB with Shamanistic healing ceremonies, but when the Europeans would try the same cure it wouldn't work for them cause they weren't part of that culture and did not wholly believe in it.

The comforting theory is very interesting. I should check out that Leary stuff I never really got to deep into his stuff. Could you post some links for SWIM?

I think that if this is true it only goes for people who are dependent on opiates and use daily for whatever the reason, not just the occasional recreational user who uses in moderation (ALTHOUGH THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, wish swim could do this)

Has any one else who isn't you experienced this same thing? I would love to hear more peoples experiences. If this is a matter of mental immunity and therefor just a placebo effect for SWIM then it would be strange if lots of others have had the same experience.

[killersnowman]

to be short, swim says YES. swim has experienced this lack of sickness as well. it is an amazing thing when swim thinks back about it. swim got more sick when he had been an avid swimmer and worked out everyday than when he used opies every day.

its a miracle! now everyone take your medicine....

[Ethyl]

Be careful, just because you don't feel sick that doesn't mean you aren't sick... The lack of sickness is not lack of decease itself...

When you feel sick, you are mostly feeling sick from the immune system response towards decease.
It is know that external opiates lower the immune system response, so thats why junkies allmost never feel sick. Because they lower you body immune system response.


When you are real sick and you don't feel sick thats bad... that means your imune system is not doing its work.

If junkies wouldn't get sick than they would not get the hepatitis/aids/tuberculosis and all other deceases that affect real street junkies..


PS. Swim was treated of his hepatitis C with a special interferon, a med that boosts your bodys immune response, and ribavirine (antiviral). When he went thru treatment he was forced by his doctor to be opiates clean because they decreased the bodys response to interferon. If he was taking opiates he wouldn't be accepted to be treated because in statistics it makes a lot of difference in sucess.

[JaWill88]

swims friend died in swims own home from heroin/pneumonia and since he was doing heroin everyday he didn't know he had it. if swim hadn't gone to a doctor like 3 days later he would have died from the pneumonia alone. heroin completely made the symptoms gone. neither could tell he was sick except some coughing. we thought it was nothing serious. anyways the combination of the drug and the sickness killed swims best from from like 3rd grade.

[Laudaphun]

SWIM has been opiate dependent for most of the time since she turned 18. SWIM was also afflicted with seasonal allergies every spring and every fall but SWIM is pretty sure that she grew out of these. Everytime you get a virus, your body builds antibodies to fight off that particular strain of whatever it is. I guess this is why you normally get the flu or a cold more often as a child. Personally, SWIM has noticed almost no illness since regular opiate use started roughly 9 years ago or so (except for the 6 months she spent in jail, in which she was stricken with 3 throat infection, colds, or whatever they were).

While it would seem there is a correlation between SWIMs illnesses and opiate use as well as many other SWIMs, there could be other reasons. In general, people aren't shooting dope when they are 7 or 8 but this is when SWIM remembers the worst cases of flu, throat infection, brochitis, etc. It's possible that by the time people begin using opiates, they've begun to grow out of childhood allergies (such as SWIM believes she did), developed antibodies to the most common strains of common viruses. When SWIM spent 6 months in jail, did she get sick because of lack of opiates or was it because of the close confinement with so many other people and dirty, nasty living conditions? SWIM tends to believe it would be hard not to get sick in a place like that. Obviously, opiates would cover up many symptoms of common illnesses, as would withdrawl symptoms outweigh and/or mimic symptoms of common illnesses.

SWIM can say that she hasn't gotten sick (other than withdrawl) other than maybe once in 9 years or so of opiate use, but SWIM isn't entirely convinced that this is due the opiate use, but rather leans towards the belief that it is due to one or more of the possibilities in the above paragraph. SWIM has read about the saying in some very old books about opiates, "old junkies just get older" or old junkies will say that it keeps them from getting sick. It would be interesting to see some research on the matter.

SWIM has def noticed this odd effect as well, you would think that it would weaken your immune system but SWIM believes that it does the opposite. SWIM usually gets a handfull of pretty nasty colds during the year, esp. the winter season. But when SWIM was doing OC's he never once got sick during that time period, there was one point where he felt like he was coming down with something, but he took some airborne and more Opiates and was all good.

[chronicpain247]

first, JaWill88 I just want to say that Im sorry swiy lost your friend. SWIM was in no way saying that people should not pay attention to their health. Swim just wanted to explore the myth.

Also Ethyl I wanted to say that those more serious illnesses that you were talking about, especially ones that you would get from blood being exchanged, is definitly not going to fall under the catagory of sickness you may avoid from opiates.

[boylizard]

SWIM has noticed this not only with opiates, but with marijuana. SWIM doesn't seem to get sick as often when swim smokes regularly, regardless of the alleged immunosuppression caused by marijuana (swim thinks its ridiculous). Perhaps it is due to a more regular sleep pattern caused by increased melatonin production? Marijuana also partially activates the opiod receptors, doesn't it?

[samuraigecko]

SWIM has a large H habit on and off as one has mentioned.
He often gets a cold during these periods but the severity of it seems to be less.
One can be in pain or sick and not even know it in some cases.
Because Opiates block the actual impulses and triggers which allow one to feel pain and discomfort then often the symptoms of that pain and discomfort go unnoticed.
When SWIM did have colds during his addiction the severity of it SEEMED less to him as he was already "comfortably numb". At times his other friends (whom also use all year) got sick also, one was also hospitalized for a similar reason which has already been mentioned in this thread but for the exception that he KNEW he was sick beforehand but didn't think it was as bad as it really was which is caused by the suppressed feelings.

Taking an opiate long term for any reason is not a great thing (there are certain chronic pain management cases which one would think of as an exception). Finding another simple reason to do so is not a great thing. When one straitens up for long enough to look back they will know it is not a great thing. Clouded head, careless decisions, lack of commitment, lack of motivation etc. It is all logical and obvious to anyone whom cares to look.

One is not bad mouthing opiates or any other drug (he actually LOVES them), one is just saying that being smart is better than being an addict.

[JaWill88]

swim also must say he too has noticed no sickness of any kind EVER while using herion or any other opioid everyday. swim believes being high pretty much covers up all the symtoms. swim has been on suboxone for 1 year now and he has gotten a minor stuffy nose here and there, but thats it. and swim doesn't feel a thing from buprenorphine. no warmth, sedation, analgesia, nothing. so this is an interesting subject.

[chronicpain247]

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

Finding another simple reason to do so is not a great thing. When one straitens up for long enough to look back they will know it is not a great thing. Clouded head, careless decisions, lack of commitment, lack of motivation etc. It is all logical and obvious to anyone whom cares to look.

Swim was in no was endorsing addiction, or trying to say that avoiding the common cold is a good reason to be an addict. He was merely interested in finding out weather there is any validity to this myth and thought it would be interesting to see if anyone else has had the same experiences. Swim definitely does not think that anyone who is not already using opiates should start unless they absolutely needed to. After years of dependency Swim knows first had that cons definitely outweigh the pros of being on opiates and would rather have a cold any day than live with the difficulties that he has had to.

On the other hand Swim has always felt that if you manage to maintain a somewhat normal life without losing or jeopardizing the things one loves, that being dependent on opiates is not the worst thing in the world. Most people are addicted to something and off the top of swim's head he could think of a whole list of things that are worse.

All that being said I too think that this is a very interesting topic and I would love to know if there is any scientific data to back any of this up.

[psyche]

SWIMs friend had quite a large dose of buprenorphine I.V and he was sleeping 20 hours after the dose. After that he still was lethargic and very very nauseous and white. We finally took him to hospital after we noticed blue veins rising up between his palms and wrists. He had pretty bad pneumonia and was in a quite nasty condition when admitted, but we thought for quite long that it's only the acute withdrawal from a lot of buprenorphine.

[chronicpain247]

Originally Posted by psyche

SWIMs friend had quite a large dose of buprenorphine I.V and he was sleeping 20 hours after the dose. After that he still was lethargic and very very nauseous and white. We finally took him to hospital after we noticed blue veins rising up between his palms and wrists. He had pretty bad pneumonia and was in a quite nasty condition when admitted, but we thought for quite long that it's only the acute withdrawal from a lot of buprenorphine.

I would imagine that it can be very difficult to tell the difference between withdraw symptoms and the symptoms from an illness like pneumonia. I assume it can be very dangerous.

[psyche]

That is true. SWIM's mom visited his apartment while he was gone and his friend had to be let there sleeping. He told his mom that his friend would be there in bad shape sleeping off his opiate withdrawal. His mom would have called some help if she wouldn't have known that SWIM was going to come back soon because his friends' breathing wasn't very constant and had pauses in it. It was finally SWIM's friends' closer friend who came by and noticed the veins.

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by chronicpain247

Swim was in no was endorsing addiction, or trying to say that avoiding the common cold is a good reason to be an addict. He was merely interested in finding out weather there is any validity to this myth and thought it would be interesting to see if anyone else has had the same experiences. Swim definitely does not think that anyone who is not already using opiates should start unless they absolutely needed to. After years of dependency Swim knows first had that cons definitely outweigh the pros of being on opiates and would rather have a cold any day than live with the difficulties that he has had to.

On the other hand Swim has always felt that if you manage to maintain a somewhat normal life without losing or jeopardizing the things one loves, that being dependent on opiates is not the worst thing in the world. Most people are addicted to something and off the top of swim's head he could think of a whole list of things that are worse.

All that being said I too think that this is a very interesting topic and I would love to know if there is any scientific data to back any of this up.

One did not think that SWIY was endorsing addiction, sorry for the misunderstanding. One was merely pointing out to others that this should not be a new reason to "give it a go" because a forum like this can influence people so easily.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding and hopefully now my point is more clear. It is a very interesting subject indeed and one hopes to see and is looking for any scientific data to either back up or refute the conjecture made.

Peace

[chronicpain247]

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

One did not think that SWIY was endorsing addiction, sorry for the misunderstanding. One was merely pointing out to others that this should not be a new reason to "give it a go" because a forum like this can influence people so easily.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding and hopefully now my point is more clear. It is a very interesting subject indeed and one hopes to see and is looking for any scientific data to either back up or refute the conjecture made.

Peace

No prob I was more or less just seconding what you had said rather than defending myself. I think we were pretty much saying the same things, just in different ways. but thanks for being cool about anyway.

[Lisa J]

SWIM'S drug worker was chatting to the group only a couple of weeks ago and mentioned that people on heroin or methadone don't tend to get as many colds as other people. Don't know where his information came from and SWIM is now in a different group but if she can get any more info she will. SWIM has been around lots of people with several different viruses all over christmas and she didn't catch anything.