bup withdrawal, on pause or starting over?

[JaWill88]

swim had been on suboxone for 1 year and just jumped off of it. it does have some shitty withdrawal. not as intense as heroin but much longer duration. anyways swim didn't take any for like 6 or 7 days and was taking clonazepam. then one day swim gave in and took 8mg suboxone. that was yesterday. today swim started back on the clonazepam. did swim put his withdrawal on hold when the suboxone was taken, or is going to start all over?

[JaWill88]

swim is back in his withdrawal and it really blows. swim bought some kratom but it doesn't seem to do anything

[Laudaphun]

The first time SWIM attempted to get off of bupe, she had been taking 8mg/day for 1 year. She just stopped and went 4 days with no suboxone at which point was very uncomfortable so she took an 8mg suboxone. She then proceeded to go another 3 days with no suboxone at which point she took a few mgs... not sure exactly but it was a small amount and much to SWIMs surprise, it gave her a good buzz with a good deal of euphoria (for bupe anyways). This made her want to take it again so she started taking 3mg/day for a few months before gradually titrating the dose back up to 8mg in response to stress. SWIM would crush up the 8mg pills and divide them into 8 semi-equal piles... it was a bit of a pain in the ass but effective at measuring a 3mg dose w/o having to buy the 2mg pills (very expensive from the pharmacy compared to the 8mg). Pharmacy charges $4.75/8mg pill and $2.75/2mg pill

On a side note, SWIM has had a bottle of 2mg pills stashed for awhile for another attempt at quitting, which she has gotten into and is trying to taper off again while over winter break.

[chronicpain247]

in swim's opinion WD from Bup is worse than almost any other opiates because the drug has a half life of 72 hrs, that means it doesn't even start to get out of your system for at least 3 days. this means that the withdraw lasts much longer that other opiates which you can begin to experience WD from in 6-8 hrs and the WD is usaually over in about 3 days.

When Swim was trying to stop taking sub after 1 yrs of 8mgs each day he would ween down from half 2x day to 1/4 twice a day for about a week. then started trying to go as long as possible with out any until WD set in then took 1/4 when it would and did this for about a week or two. then finally go as long as he could with none and just took 1/8 whenever WD was starting and went as long as possible in between doses and did this untill finally he was able to just stop after about 2 or 3 week of doing this. that might sound drawn out but swim was able to stop taking suboxone without any serious WD effects.

hope this helps. good luck.

[Laudaphun]

Originally Posted by chronicpain247

in swim's opinion WD from Bup is worse than almost any other opiates because the drug has a half life of 72 hrs, that means it doesn't even start to get out of your system for at least 3 days. this means that the withdraw lasts much longer that other opiates which you can begin to experience WD from in 6-8 hrs and the WD is usaually over in about 3 days.

Woah, finished with a withdrawl from a full agonist in 3 days? For most people withdrawl symptoms peak at 72 hours from a full agonist and gradually burn themselves out after 6-8 days. Bupe withdrawl just takes so much longer to really set in. Btw, the half-life of bupe is 36 hours, not 72.

With Suboxone, the withdrawl seems much longer than it actually is... SWIM has consumed 8mg/day... occasionally more or less. SWIM has tried quitting various ways, but as described in an earlier post, SWIM initially tried quitting suboxone cold turkey... and the problem was for SWIM at least, it was almost 4 days until any real withdrawl symptoms would begin. SWIM has never rode out cold turkey suboxone any longer than 4 days as she is very uncomfortable.

The current and most comfortable wean down has been from an old bottle of 2mg pills SWIM has had stashed for a serious attempt at quitting. SWIM has went from 8mg to 7mg for 3days, to 6mg for 3 days, to 5mg for 3 days, and 4mg for 5 days. The funny thing is that when SWIM hit 4mg, the suboxone started hitting her harder which doesn't make any sense unless it is due to the buildup becoming depleted. Once at 4mg, SWIM started thinking of just staying there since she felt better at 4mg than she did at 8mg, but then she remembered the same thing happened last year when she used this philosophy when she got down to 3mg. SWIM is down to 2mg per day (2nd day). This too seems drawn out but, if you want a painless withdrawl/taper, then it's gonna have to be drawn out... which is the problem as SWIM is either gonna taper off and be off suboxone before the spring semester of school starts or it will be another failed attempt at quitting. SWIM had about 30 days off of college, of which about half remain.

SWIM recommends that once down to 4mg start decreasing by 0.5mg every 3 days or so. So far, SWIM has experienced no discomfort. It's more important the percentage of dosage reduction rather than the mg of the dosage reduction.

It sure would be nice if suboxone/subutex(buprenorphine) came in dosage units other than 8mg and 2mg in the U.S...

[chronicpain247]

Originally Posted by Laudaphun

Woah, finished with a withdrawl from a full agonist in 3 days? For most people withdrawl symptoms peak at 72 hours from a full agonist and gradually burn themselves out after 6-8 days. Bupe withdrawl just takes so much longer to really set in. Btw, the half-life of bupe is 36 hours, not 72.

Sorry about the incorrect info. swim was thinking back to a time when he didn't have a very heavy habit and was only taking Hydros for the most part. He just curled up in a ball on he couch and after 3 days he was pretty much over the hump. Swim is sure that if he tried that today it would be a lot worse and for much longer, and he can only imagine what WD from Heroin would be like.

Also you are probably right about the 36 hr half life of Bup, swim could have sworn that his doc had told him 72, but I'm sure you know more about this than swim does.

[JaWill88]

swim is back on sub but wants to try and quit again. swim will do much more taper as reccommended above instead of just jumping off. the kratom swim ordered didn't do anything at all. swim really hates bup withdrawal because of the long half life which yes, is 36 hours. the withdrawals are quite long. swim may get physically addicted to a weak opioid like codeine or tramadol for a month or two and then detox with benzos or maybe even really low doses of bup but only for like 3 - 4 days. that is what swim should have used it for in the first place, just detox. not this stupid maintenance.

[Laudaphun]

SWIM has got down to 4mg and stayed at that dose... She is beginning to wonder if the bupe withdrawl from the fairly sudden decrease is starting to catch up with her. SWIM is about to start back to school next week therefore withdrawling is now out of the question. Maybe she will be able to stay at 4mg and get comfortable with that dose.

While the acute effects seem to have increased with the dosage reduction when SWIM got to around 4mg, she believes it to be the result of the reduction catching up with her. Before her daily dose she REALLY does not feel like getting out of bed. After she takes her daily dose, she feels 100% better. Unlike before when she would take 8mg daily and it had minimal effects. Just giving an update.

SWIM has a friend, who was on 16mg/day for 1 year and then the dr. reduced his dosage by 50% each month until 2mg was reached, then he was reduced to 2mg every other day. SWIM's friend reported that each reduction was very unpleasant and began to run out before the end of the month.