hallucinogenic opiate??

[TripsBalls]

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there is a drug in the opiate family that is also a hallucinogen? If not could you tell me a drug that gives both opiate and hallucinogenic characteristics?

[forumdude]

ever tried dextromethorfan?

cyclorphan was too hallucinogen to be marketed.

Levorphanol also has nmda activities so it might not be hallucinogenic but possibly disociative?

i dont know for sure, i ofcourse never tried such a substance

[biggpri]

william s burroughs, the writer, had hallucinations from shooting massive amounts of heroin. this is how he wrote his famous novel Naked Lunch. opiates aren't supposed to make you hallucinate, but i suppose an enormous quantity of any drug can alter the brain's perception of reality and cause hallucinations. but swim has never experienced such an effect.

[bloot]

Originally Posted by biggpri

william s burroughs, the writer, had hallucinations from shooting massive amounts of heroin. this is how he wrote his famous novel Naked Lunch. opiates aren't supposed to make you hallucinate, but i suppose an enormous quantity of any drug can alter the brain's perception of reality and cause hallucinations. but swim has never experienced such an effect.

Pretty sure that Burroughs was using Ayahuasca when he ventured to Tangier ,seeing that this was one of his major reasons for going there. And if not he also explains in Junkie how he had hallucinations as a child. Either of these could have been the reasons for hallucinations. Just my opinion, though.

[zera]

Well as the above poster alluded to strong opiate experiences often lead to pseudo-hallucinogenic experiences. Many people, including swim, have reported feelings of being "on the nod" after consuming a high dose of opiates through a relatively fast acting method of administration (intravenous heroin being the most likely to produce this), in a sort of half-awake, half-dreaming state surrounded by beautiful imagery.

Salvia of course is a powerful hallucinogen and its primary mechanism is at the kapp-opiod receptors in brain, which by definition makes it a hallucinogenic opiate. However pretty much all the classic opiates target the mu-opiod receptors.

I found this little gem with some google-fu:
"The kappa opioid agonists are analgesics that seem to be free of undesired morphine-like effects. Their dysphoric actions observed with the kappa agonist cyclazocine are thought to be mediated by an action at sigma-phencyclidine receptors. The benzomorphan kappa agonist MR 2033 is inactive at sigma-phencyclidine receptors. In male subjects, the opiate-active (-)-isomer, but not the (+)-isomer, elicited dose-dependent dysphoric and psychotomimetic effects that were antagonized by naloxone. Thus, kappa opiate receptors seem to mediate psychotomimetic effects. In view of the euphorigenic properties of mu agonists, our results imply the existence of opposed opioid systems affecting emotional and perceptual experiences."
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...t/233/4765/774

Upon some further investigation into this mysterious compound MR 2033 I found another abstract that was interesting:
"Mr 2033 CL is a very potent non-morphine-like opioid analgesic as shown in different test models and animal species. On a weight for weight basis, it is about 20 times more potent than morphine. The analgesic effects of Mr 2033 CL are supposed to be different from those of morphine and bremazocine because of individual sensitivity against selective antagonists like naloxone and Mr 2266 CL. Mr 2033 CL does not induce the Straub tail phenomenon and increased circling movements in mice, catatonia in rats, and stupor in rabbits which are characteristic for mu agonists. Moreover, Mr 2033 CL does not have a morphine-like abuse potential in rats, dogs and rhesus monkeys. CNS-depressive effects were observed in different species. Respiratory depression and inhibition of intestinal transit seem to be of minor degree. In contrast to morphine, Mr 2033 CL provokes diuresis in rats. Binding studies in rats as well as dependence studies in rats and rhesus monkeys characterize Mr 2033 CL as a predominant kappa agonist with morphine antagonistic properties."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...indexed=google

Apparently it appears a class of opiates exist that is both analgesic (pain-relieving) as well as "dysphoric." If I am interpreting correctly, I am pretty sure what they mean by "dysphoria" is a salvia like state. Swim would certainly classify the salvia trip as raw dysphoria.

Reputation Comments on this post:

informative article

[julian]

swim experiences lucid dreams while in the state of the 'nod'. these are no so much psychedelic dreams but are very realistic.

[TheBlackPope]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44374

[Handle]

Don't forget pethidine, that while itself may or may not be, it's use is NOTORIOUS for causing dissociation, hallucinations, even psychosis. It has an extremely active nor form, obviously called norpethidine, which is a powerful hallucinogen.
I've also heard that many methadone patients with prior mental problems, experience worse hallucinations on methadone than they did while they were in withdrawal.

Opium was often used as a semi hallucinogen by artists and creative people. It depends how you define hallucinations, while it may not be a strict hallucinogen, it still was used to generate "vivid reverie" in ye olde speak.

[ThirdEyeFloond]

SWIM finds heroin to be perhaps not hallucinogenic but psychedelic none the less when he reaches the land of Nod. A very twisted dreamlike dimension appears and he could see why it has been an inspiration for some.

[Paracelsus]

Norpethidine has another interesting side effect: it is extremely notorious for causing seizures. It is considered a neurotoxin.

I'd have to agree with most people here, opiates are not "true" hallucinogens but there are these dreamlike states at high doses.

[moda00]

Swim didn't find heroin to be at all "hallucinogenic" for a long period of time.. then all of a sudden she started having very strong hallucinations. For at least a year of iv use, it was simply very euphoric and relaxing, and the nod was usually more of a sleepily disconnected or sedated, even unconscious state. However, her more recent experiences suddenly took on very different effects- perhaps due to injecting much higher doses due to tolerance, or abstaining for awhile and then using in combination with methadone? She finds that she becomes part of very real and sometimes very random worlds and scenarios.. she has this desk that was always her dope shooting area, she'd sit in the chair and prep on the desktop.. she usually becomes roused from the reveries eventually because she will try to physically interact with the hallucination- she would most often reach out her hand to touch something and hit the desk or knock something over and realize that it didn't match up, visually vs. tactilely.. or she would try to talk and realize she was not actually interacting with anyone.. but that tended to happen much less frequently than the physical interaction eventually snapping her out of it.. only to return again seconds later, and repeat the process.. She was thinking of posting something about this, and just saw this thread. Also, occasional use recently, again after a long time of abstinence and methadone maintenance on a stable dose, which she is still taking, resulted in OEVs- the patterns and shimmering on walls or blank white paper that she could actually trace and create a crazy psychedelic picture on occasion. Obviously the OP is wondering about substances that share those traits, and Swim wouldn't say that iv heroin is classically something that would qualify.. but for her it has become a most prominent effect and can be very intense, but in a kind of disorienting way- not in any way the emotional/sensory intensity of true psychedelics. Although it feels "real," she is completely disconnected from her brain and surroundings, whereas psychedelic :hallucinations" tend to be magnifications of sensations or stimuli, or the blending of such, rather than an entirely new and unrelated reality. Swim's also had a couple experiences combining two drugs for opioid/psychedelic effects- ie. mushrooms or lsd with heroin or oxycodone, and has found it to be quite pleasant as long as one does not overdo either element.. but she wouldn't recommend that until one is acquainted with each substance individually. Eventually that may be what swiy finds produces the best effects. Good luck!