Is love a dangerous addicting drug ?

[Pino]

No, the debate about the drug is, was the person responsible enough? If he takes a drug, which clouds his mind so far, he can walk under a car; he never should have entered the street. It isn't interesting, he took the drug willingly or not. We can't ask him anymore. We could determine, whether he took his responsibilities. He shouldn't go on the street in the first place.

The same with love. If you fall in love, you have to deal with it. It can result in happiness or sadness. The result is partially your responsibility and is partially luck.

[Micutzul]

Originally Posted by Pino

No, the debate about the drug is, was the person responsible enough? If he takes a drug, which clouds his mind so far, he can walk under a car; he never should have entered the street. It isn't interesting, he took the drug willingly or not. We can't ask him anymore. We could determine, whether he took his responsibilities. He shouldn't go on the street in the first place.

The same with love. If you fall in love, you have to deal with it. It can result in happiness or sadness. The result is partially your responsibility and is partially luck.

Very true , it is a matter - if he was responsible or not . But also consider the case that , in my example , he could have been drugged unknowingly ,without a choice , by another person . So this is why in the case of love i think it is a matter of discussion how much is love chosen and sustained by choice , and how much of it is imposed upon us by our nature/instinct/soul/ higher force , without being given the benefit of a choice .

[Pino]

But then the responsibility lay by someone else. The guy who drugged him, should be punished. It is a severe thing to do.

With falling in love, there is no-one, who can be held responsible then yourself. We can't punish bad luck (or your nature/higher force/whatever).
Love is a "choice" between two people. This makes us depended on the other one. This may be a concious choice, but more often is not. Our bodies chose, who is fit. (So we get healthy children) We only have a veto right and sometimes using this hurts a lot.

People, who start killing, because a love one dumped them, are dangerous. They can start killing with every strong emotion. Most people have internal restraints, which keep them rational enough. It isn't natural to start hitting a person, when extremely enraged. It is a social defect, when one do such thing: Highly problematic when dealing with other species of your race.

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by Pino

We can't punish bad luck (or your nature/higher force/whatever).
Love is a "choice" between two people. This makes us depended on the other one. This may be a concious choice, but more often is not. Our bodies chose, who is fit. (So we get healthy children) We only have a veto right and sometimes using this hurts a lot.

A choice between two people? I disagree. What if it's one-sided love? Then the other party has absolutely no hand in it. And what if you fall in love without even wanting to? That's hardly a choice either.

[Pino]

^^^ I agree. I have put it down a bit crappy. Love is not a choice between two people. But to change it in a relationship is a choice. (In my language there is difference between love -houden van- and falling in love (?) -verliefd zijn-. Houden van is used, when people have a longer relationship, but know each other fallacies. Verliefd zijn only as people are in the begin stage of there relation. The blinded by love part, when everything one does is fantastic. )

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by Pino

^^^ I agree. I have put it down a bit crappy. Love is not a choice between two people. But to change it in a relationship is a choice. (In my language there is difference between love -houden van- and falling in love (?) -verliefd zijn-. Houden van is used, when people have a longer relationship, but know each other fallacies. Verliefd zijn only as people are in the begin stage of there relation. The blinded by love part, when everything one does is fantastic. )

That's quite interesting. I might have to start incorporating those terms into everyday speech.

[psyche]

And where i got that from ? Where did i get the wild idea that people like living in an illusion ? Just look around ( i don't mean this forum , as i said people around here are particularly open-minded ) . Look around in your society ,regarding most subjects . It's human nature after all . If the truth is too harsh , the instinct is to somehow keep away from it , create our own little illusion of an world , where things are better . I think everybody did it and does it to a certain degree .I know i do . Nobody wants to know that everytime you go out in the street , there's the same chance that you'll get stabbed as it was for that poor guy you saw on the news yesterday . Nobody wants to know that everybody you have ever loved will either reject you , or die ( that if you don't die first ) . Nobody wants to know that on a long enough time line everybody's survival rate drops to 0 ( how Tyler Durden'ish of me ) . I know i don't . So most of the time , we lock these inside a little closet in our minds and let ourselves see the world in a much better perspective , in our little personal illusion . It's what keeps us sane .

'Illusion' means to me something that isn't real, or is a faked reality. Why wouldn't the experience people live in subjectively be as real as it gets. If you don't choose to worry or think about something like getting stabbed or anything that is not likely to happen, that isn't illusion in my book. I would call it more living in an illusion if you constantly worried(read concentrated your attention on, perceived, experinced) about things that most of the time wont happen. Dying is also part of the natural experience, and it scares people who won't accept the idea that life is flowing, you should experience it, not try to grab it and achieve something permanent, because there is nothing to grab. When you die, what do you think will happen? How did you wind up in your brain's consciousness in the first place? Everything usually circles in the nature. The same thing will happen, you start living in another complex system's consciousness, be it world with it's people or some brains. There isn't you, the 'you' is only collection of past events, experience of the present or whatever you pay attention to. But there is an experience.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good debate

[Micutzul]

Dying scares everybody , not only those who don't accept the fact that life is flowing . And why wouldn't be the experience in which we live subjectively be real ? This is a different topic and a very elaborate debate , with a very high degree of relativity . But to keep on track , let's consider the subjective experience of thinking that "this love will always last forever" ( something which i think has happened to most people at a certain stage in their lives) . What makes this not real ? The fact that months/years later , the love will die and as such it has not lasted forever .

Personally , i don't think whatever you believe to be true is true , even if you are absolutely convinced of it and it actually becomes your subjective reality . ( take for example people with psychological illness ) . Just because a dude thinks he's Riddick , it doesn't mean he's a cold blooded escaped convict who can see in the dark...

[psyche]

If you are in love and think that it lasts forever, then you are already thinking some other moment of your life than the current. And if you are thinking about love lasting to the distant future, that is an illusion, but if you live in love in the moment, that is something real.
My point was that it isn't living in the illusion if you don't concentrate on those scary things that might or are bound to happen in the future, it is just living in the moment. And if/when those things happen, THEN you go through those sad times, and it is real for that moment. So, there's no illusion if you don't constantly concentrate on the fact that your feelings aren't forever, as nothing is. Concentrating on the present moment isn't an illusion since it's the reality.

Personally , i don't think whatever you believe to be true is true , even if you are absolutely convinced of it and it actually becomes your subjective reality . ( take for example people with psychological illness ) . Just because a dude thinks he's Riddick , it doesn't mean he's a cold blooded escaped convict who can see in the dark...

We were talking about the experience of love being an illusion. Imagining that you posses supernatural powers is a delusion in terms of physical world, which others can verify to be incorrect.

To the original question, yes, love can be seen to be a dangerous and addicting mind-altering drug, if you really strecth the term drug to include other things than chemical substances that alter or affect your mind. But in that case every emotion can be a drug. Every event and perception is a drug. They have certain effect on your mind. I see this to be a terminological question stemming from the similarity of 'natural' emotions and those induced by ingesting substance.

[psyche]

Regarding psyche's post , i don't think i ever mentioned "constantly concentrating " on the scary things . I said - accepting the scary things conciously

Accepting things consciously requires concentrating on them. But who is the 'you' that needs to be in control and know the love isn't forever. If you say you are thinking a thought, something that would make a thought something to own and you the owner, you fail to realise that the thought IS you. If you then think that you thought something, who is the one thinking that, it's a just a thought just like the previous one. The only difference between the owner of the thought and the thought itself is time, it's only the same conscious process at different times. There is truth to the saying in someones signature 'to find your mind you have to lose it first'. (So the only you is your brain spontaneously reflecting to the things of the 'outside' world, something that you might define 'not you'.) I wouldn't spend/live my life with the worries of the future but it's everyones personal choice. Accepting or thinking them once through might do some good but you don't have to actively 'accept' them all the time in order to live a better life. When there's no separate you from the experience 'you' are having, why not spend your life 'accepting' positive thoughts instead.

Buddhist monks don't control their emotions. Buddhist monks meditating don't concentrate hard to achieve some sort of further enlightenment, that once you are there it's done and you'll live in bliss forever. Funny thing that I've got the very problem of controlling my emotions so that I'm having very hard time falling in love because I can't let my emotions take control in social situations. It happens because I think it's a problem. Every time I know I should feel something the very classification of the feeling in words and rational thinking of what to answer strips the moment of all feelings. It's like you have to come up with seemingly spontaneous answer, supposing you are feeling this way, and not let other's detect that you don't actually feel the feeling at the moment of you speaking. Now that I've got unusually smart girlfriend with some similarities to me I have started to realize how terribly chained my emotions are. But this isn't anything to brag about since it really makes my life boring and stressful. My doctor thought that I might have asperger's syndrome because my emotions are so controlled. I've build quite a lonely world for myself by following the shadow of myself, the higher conscious thinking in the belief that I'm finding the true myself.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Your personal share in the 2nd half was very touching, can relate!

[Micutzul]

Originally Posted by psyche

. Funny thing that I've got the very problem of controlling my emotions so that I'm having very hard time falling in love because I can't let my emotions take control in social situations. It happens because I think it's a problem. Every time I know I should feel something the very classification of the feeling in words and rational thinking of what to answer strips the moment of all feelings. It's like you have to come up with seemingly spontaneous answer, supposing you are feeling this way, and not let other's detect that you don't actually feel the feeling at the moment of you speaking. Now that I've got unusually smart girlfriend with some similarities to me I have started to realize how terribly chained my emotions are. But this isn't anything to brag about since it really makes my life boring and stressful. My doctor thought that I might have asperger's syndrome because my emotions are so controlled. I've build quite a lonely world for myself by following the shadow of myself, the higher conscious thinking in the belief that I'm finding the true myself.

I can imagine how it could become a problem but I have the exact opposite problem - difficulty in controlling my emotions and even my thoughts . Extreme difficulty . The most problematic are the very distructive feelings of rage and hate , but the fact that they fluctuate radically within hours is also deeply disturbing . I should probably visit a shrink , but i have entombed myself in the belief that i don't want to be helped . Well , whatever ....You're right , in a way , what I think is me . I am my own thoughts and emotions , unfortunately .

[Neo]

Today before I read your post, coincidentally I was explaining to someone that the 'longing' I feel is as big as the sky.

It consumes, my every waking moment. I am haunted. Completely besotted, by 'love' that I already 'gave up' because of the damage it was causing me.

'I' had disappeared. Sacrificed my self for love.

So I gave it up, walked away. I did the right thing. I 'sacrificed love' for survival. Denying my self of the one thing I wanted in this world because it was so bad for me.

But made me feel so good.

Is love an addictive drug?

I feel like it when I know the 'dealer' is only a 5 minute walk away from where I live. I live in permanent internal conflict. The one person in the whole world that can take the sense of loss away, can't be trusted with the task.

I work with people with addictions (drug and alcohol). I help them raise their self awareness, and therefore I learn through my own experiences.

I have used every 'trick in the book' to rid myself of the burden of love and have so far failed. Yes I believe 'love', is as addictive, as heroin.

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice honesty

[Micutzul]

Originally Posted by Neo

I feel like it when I know the 'dealer' is only a 5 minute walk away from where I live. I live in permanent internal conflict. The one person in the whole world that can take the sense of loss away, can't be trusted with the task.

I have used every 'trick in the book' to rid myself of the burden of love and have so far failed. Yes I believe 'love', is as addictive, as heroin.

I am in a quite similar situation . For two and a half years my " dealer " was in the same room with me for 6-7 hours every day , whether i liked it or not . Then ,after shattering pain , i managed to let it go , leaving a big part of myself behind with it . It sent me plummeting in a spiral of alcoholism . After a year or so , drugs . But in the middle of my addiction , i still felt the need for love , i still felt a big hole , nothing could fill it . I succeeded in gathering enough hope for another attempt . I fell in love again , with someone who is 5 minutes away from me . Sufficient to say it ended even worse - pain , humiliation .... . It all went even more downards . Work performance near 0 .Everyday drug use . Fucked up my entire life . I was so close to suicide so many times that i seriously don't want to consider what would have happened if i had a gun in my house . Most likely i wouldn't be writing this post . And it still feels like that . I never trully recovered from love nor from addiction . But while drugs were the means of my demise , i only used them to dull the pain , the pain of loving . I'm sure i could forget all about drugs , if the scars on my soul healed . But now, i know it's impossible .

Now , two a days in a row don't go by , in which i don't have to battle the thought of just putting an end to all of this . How do i manage to stay away from drugs ? I made an oath to myself and others that i would never use drugs again , but how i manage to do it , i couldn't say . Sometimes it just requires "inhuman" willpower and i don't know where i get it from . I am a shadow of who i was before loving . Every moment , i am crumbling inside , every thought makes me weaker . I also promised to myself , i would never love again . I won't go through it again .I now know what it is .No more humiliation . This time , i'll put an end to it before ever loving again.

I know i can't win this battle . Basically , i'm just waiting to see how long i can take it .I know the moment will come when i'll just crack .I don't want to be melodramatic , i just want to show those of you who maybe were luckier that love can break you so much that you'll never put the tiny pieces back together .This isn't a cry for help . I don't want to be helped . I don't want compassion or pity. This is life , and it's a bitch.

So , maybe my opinion is not objective ( lol...maybe ? ) . I tried to reason as objectively and rationally as possible .But my experience leaves it's mark on my every thought . It's inevitable .

Regarding exercise , it is addictive (tested on laboratory rats , they self-exhaust themselves to death ) , it creates a chemical pleasant feeling , but it doesn't damage you. If taken to extremes it can harm you , but i consider love to have more negative side effects.

Nature boy is right and i think at least on this we can all agree. Love can be more shattering than any drug.

[ejbot]

i think that love is the least damaging drug of all, but of course just like ANYTHING in the world, has great potential for abuse, and one could always waste time/money/thoughts/etc on something that isnt ideal.

live love always<3

[Neo]

one of the things that holds us closest to 'God, Universal Energy, Self, Belonging' is love. No wonder when you can no longer feel it, the impact is deep.

The foundations are shaken.

[NaturalWizard]

Swim thinks that love is an exceptional high that comes at a cost. You have to pay in what you get out.

[Nature Boy]

^^^

Exactly. The psychoanalysis of drug use and what we define as love are both greatly complicated and we've only figured out the very basics of what can be known, or assumed, when it comes to the intricate understanding of individual reactions. That figurative 1% inaccuracy is only the closest figure one can aspire to finding and even that is extremely distant in terms of what we now know.

[augentier]

I tend to feel very sorry for those who try to explain and "figure out" emotions with cold, scientific rationale. What a bleak, uninteresting existance.

[cyferman]

I think what some people have failed to touch on so far that love is an emotion (or a combination of emotions) just like all other feelings we as humans have.
When we start to classify emotions as drugs which alter our state of conciousness it becomes obvious that at any point in time we are constantly under the influence of something, changing the way we would react to particular situations.

You would then conclude that all emotions have the power to be deteramental both psychologically and physically in the ways already stated, it is a wonder why our govournments havent banned the use of our mind all together... some people think they are trying to do that already :P

[darkglobe]

What an interesting thread. Like Natureboy's little description of conditional love. That actually helps me atm, too.

Love is, in a way, psychologically addictive isn't it.

[psyche]

You would then conclude that all emotions have the power to be deteramental both psychologically and physically in the ways already stated, it is a wonder why our govournments havent banned the use of our mind all together... some people think they are trying to do that already :P

Let's just hope the future never looks like the scenario pictured in this film. Feelings and emotions are banned and people vaccinated against them. People avoiding those vaccinations are persecuted as are today those who choose to intentionally induce emotions by chemical means.

[[éS]Infinite]

SWIM would say that it isn't so much love being an addictive "drug", but one becoming dependent on a person whom they love. SWIM has seen it happen to many friends, and has even experienced it first hand, and must say that the "withdrawal" was most terrible.
It is a difficult thing to avoid, and shares many similarities with drugs. There is a reward response involved (typically from sex and how that person makes you feel about yourself and your life), however once dependence takes place and that feeling is no longer sufficient, the love usually ends and is followed by a withdrawal (a feeling of worthlessness and hopelessness).
One must keep such things in mind at all times during a relationship, and maintain self control over how much pleasure one receives in order to avoid such withdrawals. At least this is how SWIM perceives it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting perspective

[cyferman]

Yeah that would truly suck.. anyway im quite sure the world wont let it be converted to something like that any time soon. Always good to have a healthy observations about tht kinda stuff aswell tho.

[Kymistry]

Hell Yeah. Love is the worst dope in the world. Stay far far away.

[Neo]

Originally Posted by Kymistry

Hell Yeah. Love is the worst dope in the world. Stay far far away.

And if you're already hooked?