Opinions - Regulation and Control.. how exactly?

[Will21st]

Hi,

my suggestion for a regulatory framework:

1. Keep the A/B/C (UK) system... however,it doesn't mean grades of illegality,but the potential for harm! each drug sold would carry these warnings,and side-effects would be stated on the packaging.

2. Set up swiss-style heroin clinics for H-users,where they can get free doses of Diamorphine ,incl. clean needles and advice.

3.Sell ALL other drugs in pharmacies or special 'smart shops' from the age of 18.Advice and leaflets should be available,as well as offer of treatment,where needed.

4.Stop 'just say no' teachings in school,and start educating about the real dangers and benefits of ALL drugs,incl. prescription,alcohol and tobacco. Really relate to kids what addiction means.

5. No more excuses of the 'oh,i was high,drunk,off my face, i didn't know what i was doing' variety.

Responsible enough to get high? Responsible for your actions too!

Of course this is overly simplistic,to say the least,but maybe i can get the ball rolling?? What do you guys think?

W.

[Evil GIR]

One problem the only realy way regulation would work is if all EU countreys agreed to tha same thing, kinda like the UN law os psycotropic substances only in reverse. I think we need to get rid of drug tourism or it may just cause diffrent problems that the govermetn dosent want to deal with.

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Evil GIR

One problem the only realy way regulation would work is if all EU countreys agreed to tha same thing, kinda like the UN law os psycotropic substances only in reverse. I think we need to get rid of drug tourism or it may just cause diffrent problems that the govermetn dosent want to deal with.

Agreed

[Police Officer]

Originally Posted by Will21st

Hi,

my suggestion for a regulatory framework:

1. Keep the A/B/C (UK) system... however,it doesn't mean grades of illegality,but the potential for harm! each drug sold would carry these warnings,and side-effects would be stated on the packaging.

2. Set up swiss-style heroin clinics for H-users,where they can get free doses of Diamorphine ,incl. clean needles and advice.

3.Sell ALL other drugs in pharmacies or special 'smart shops' from the age of 18.Advice and leaflets should be available,as well as offer of treatment,where needed.

4.Stop 'just say no' teachings in school,and start educating about the real dangers and benefits of ALL drugs,incl. prescription,alcohol and tobacco. Really relate to kids what addiction means.

5. No more excuses of the 'oh,i was high,drunk,off my face, i didn't know what i was doing' variety.

Responsible enough to get high? Responsible for your actions too!

Of course this is overly simplistic,to say the least,but maybe i can get the ball rolling?? What do you guys think?

W.

Well, good suggestions. However, except for #3, all of those are already in place. According to many D-F members those measures dont work.

[sknkv2]

http://thedea.org/thealternative.html

Scroll down to "Controlled legalization". I reckon that is about the best idea I have heard put forward.

[FuBai]

I've advocated a chip&pin ID card system for buying all drugs for a while now. If you want to buy drugs you send off for the card, the card has printed on it your name, picture, address and age of birth. When you buy drugs you have to scan it into a reader which matches the details on chip against your database, and the shop assistant matches the database pictures against your own face. This will massively reduce sale to minors and allow accurate drug usage monitoring programmes, as all sales are logged on the database. This allows us to see where excessive consumption seems to be occurring and investigate it to check for supply to minors or to send addiction and recovery pamphlets.

Originally Posted by FuBai on a different thread

Drugs such as LSD, MDMA, 2C-B, Cannabis, Ketamine, Amphetamine (sulphate, not meth) etcetera should be legal for sale in Liquor stores - all alcohol should also be moved to Liquor stores, so that all the drugs of serious intoxication that have a relativley low addiction potential are in one place. They should each be priced in the same way - production costs + profit margins + taxation (100% or more). Thus the government profits, the business profits and the consumer has access to a safer, regulated supply of intoxicants, all of which should come with advice as to safe usage, dosage etc.

Allot of these drugs have very low (in comparison to tobacco and alcohol) dosages, so the solution is to sell them in solution (aha) or with some sort of dilutant. For instance sell MDMA in a sugar solution, like fizzy pop (for adults), so that overdose is harder as more liquid has to be drunk. LSD tabs could be sold with exactly 50 ug a tab in packets of 5 with a purchase limit of 4 packs per person. Speed (Amphetamine Sulphate) and other drugs that are snorted, such as Ketamine, could be cut with a non-harmful agent so that more would have to be snorted and the overdose risk was lessened. Dilutants are possible with most drugs, in the same way that alcohol is diluted now. The most common alcoholic drinks are beer/larger/cider etc, all of which have low alcohol percentages, usually not exceeding 6%, and yet they are the most commonly used. It is allot harder to get drunk from beer than it is from vodka, rum or brandy, but people still opt for beer. Why is that? I think it is because it's safer, more controlled, more relaxed and easier.

As for drugs such as Heroin, Cocaine, Crack Cocaine, Methamphetamine, Oxycontin, codeine and all potent opiates or drugs with a serious addiction potential coupled with a strong intoxicating influence, these should be sold through pharmacies. A person who wishes to buy these drugs must send off to a government Drug Regulation Agency for a form which is basically a disclaimer, devolving all responsibility for the consequences of use upon the user, and also includes an extra code of responsibilities such as 'your use of Strongly Addictive and Intoxicating Substances (SAIS) will be considered an aggravating factor should you ever stand trial for: theft, robbery, burglary or any form of property theft' and 'If you are found to be incompetent at the wheel as a result of your use of SAISs or as a result of any drug use you will be liable for a greatly increased fine as well as imprisonment and the removal of your licence'. Also included with the disclaimer form will be leaflets and pamphlets on getting help to overcome addiction, local group therapy meetings etcetera. Basically the point is not to be soft on irresponsible use, to put in place strict measures pertaining to irresponsible use but still allow responsible use and encourage addicts to seek help. The disclaimer would be sent back to the government Drug Regulation Agency (DRA) along with a passport photo, and in return they would be sent a little ID card with their picture on it along with a chip and pin system. This could then be taken to a pharmacist who would then allow you to purchase a SAIS if your card scanned correctly into his scanner and you entered the right pin code. The SAIS that you purchased would then be logged into a government database so that your use of SAIS could be monitored and the spread of SAIS use could be controlled.

Except I would agree with extending the use of Chip and Pin cards to all drugs, but maybe not the concomitant monitoring system.

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by FuBai

I've advocated a chip&pin ID card system for buying all drugs for a while now. If you want to buy drugs you send off for the card, the card has printed on it your name, picture, address and age of birth. When you buy drugs you have to scan it into a reader which matches the details on chip against your database, and the shop assistant matches the database pictures against your own face. This will massively reduce sale to minors and allow accurate drug usage monitoring programmes, as all sales are logged on the database. This allows us to see where excessive consumption seems to be occurring and investigate it to check for supply to minors or to send addiction and recovery pamphlets.



Except I would agree with extending the use of Chip and Pin cards to all drugs, but maybe not the concomitant monitoring system.

Sounds pretty good!

[Police Officer]

Originally Posted by FuBai

I've advocated a chip&pin ID card system for buying all drugs for a while now. If you want to buy drugs you send off for the card, the card has printed on it your name, picture, address and age of birth. When you buy drugs you have to scan it into a reader which matches the details on chip against your database, and the shop assistant matches the database pictures against your own face. This will massively reduce sale to minors and allow accurate drug usage monitoring programmes, as all sales are logged on the database. This allows us to see where excessive consumption seems to be occurring and investigate it to check for supply to minors or to send addiction and recovery pamphlets.



Except I would agree with extending the use of Chip and Pin cards to all drugs, but maybe not the concomitant monitoring system.

Well, I am thinking that you envision some type of "ration card" type of system. A system to where purchases are regulated and you're only allowed to purchase a certain amount during a specified time period. Am I right? I need to know so I can properly argue this.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

Well, I am thinking that you envision some type of "ration card" type of system. A system to where purchases are regulated and you're only allowed to purchase a certain amount during a specified time period. Am I right? I need to know so I can properly argue this.

No, no rationing, just monitoring. There need be no limit on how much they can buy, however regularly buying more than anyone would need may result in an investigation into whether supply to minors is occurring. It would also allow you to target drug literature. In any case rationing drugs would perpetuate the criminal market.

[zera]

Chip & pin card sounds like a great way for the government to know who to throw in the gulags when drugs are re-criminalized.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by zera

Chip & pin card sounds like a great way for the government to know who to throw in the gulags when drugs are re-criminalized.

This is more than a little unlikely. The cards are optional, you only have to buy them if you want to use drugs. In any case when a law like this is changed they set a date in the future as to when the changed takes place, which gives people time to send back their cards and have their details removed. The database only contains voluntarily given information, and it can be similarly reclaimed without record; an important safeguard I feel. However I feel that the degree of political will required to change such a law will result in a massive "moral snap", so that drug prohibition will have to become so demonized to remove it that it is very unlikely it will be re-instated for quite a while.

[hh339]

I'm not sure I want to see every drug on the planet in a legal smartshop. There are molecules that some people should not fuck around with! I agree all "drugs" should be legal, but not legal to market and sell to the masses. Every molecule should be treated individually, and many should be available, but not all. I think it should be legal to have and use anything though...am I making sense? I'm quite wasted...

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by hh339

I'm not sure I want to see every drug on the planet in a legal smartshop. There are molecules that some people should not fuck around with! I agree all "drugs" should be legal, but not legal to market and sell to the masses. Every molecule should be treated individually, and many should be available, but not all. I think it should be legal to have and use anything though...am I making sense? I'm quite wasted...

You are, but only mainstream drugs would be available directly through these shops, the others would have to be ordered in advance so only those who know about it can get it. This way you will avoid creating demand that does not exist already, but avoid the current black market criminality which is unacceptable. Chances are that if you left some drugs illegal the incongruity of it would increase media coverage and you would increase demand through exclusion anyway.

[hh339]

^Sounds quite reasonable. Some kind of license might be needed for certain substances though. If someone wants to buy let's say a kilo of 1000x datura extract, that person should provide an end user declaration and a license, because idiots should not be allowed to buy such dangerous products with no questions asked.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by hh339

^Sounds quite reasonable. Some kind of license might be needed for certain substances though. If someone wants to buy let's say a kilo of 1000x datura extract, that person should provide an end user declaration and a license, because idiots should not be allowed to buy such dangerous products with no questions asked.

I would agree with that, it might also require a different age limit for purchase, say 21 rather than 18. When orders are placed of that size it would trigger an automatic alert anyway, because it maybe indicative of illegal supply or supply to minors.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by hh339

^Sounds quite reasonable. Some kind of license might be needed for certain substances though. If someone wants to buy let's say a kilo of 1000x datura extract, that person should provide an end user declaration and a license, because idiots should not be allowed to buy such dangerous products with no questions asked.

Originally Posted by FuBai

I would agree with that, it might also require a different age limit for purchase, say 21 rather than 18. When orders are placed of that size it would trigger an automatic alert anyway, because it maybe indicative of illegal supply or supply to minors.

If people could choose any drug they wanted and stuck with 1000x datura extract....

Well, I'd hope that there would be essentially non-existent demand for nightshades and some other products, but you never know. Maybe if drugs were legalized you'd still have people huffing airdusters and eating nightshades, but I'd think you'd want to steer all the recreational users towards more appropriate alternatives.

Hence, I think an important part of a legalized and regulated drug market would be easy (and free) access to counseling services, and perhaps a quick consult should be required for initial purchase of more dangerous substances or those prone to addiction and abuse.

[Lethargy]

Wow... this thread reminds me of a short story I read some years ago...

• Licensed
• by Jared Axelrod
• September 24th, 2005

Slug eased himself onto the barstool, a lazy grin on his face. His hair had been professionally tussled that evening, and with his new hologreather jacket, he was confident in his irresistibility.
“Start me up a tab, barkeep,” Slug said, withdrawing his credit card and inebriation license. With a movement made automatic by constant practice, he placed both cards in the bartender’s hand while not losing eye-contact with the azure-coifed beauty across the room. No point in wasting time, Slug thought. “Gimmie a Mai Tai and send one over to that girl with the blue hair.”
“I’m sorry, sir,” the bartender said. “But there aren’t enough points on your license for a single Mai Tai, much less two.”
Slug scowled, and forced himself to look at the bartender. “You’re sure?”
“Positive.”
“How about a gin and tonic?”
“I’m very sorry, but you don’t have enough points for that either.”
“How many do I have?”
“For alcohol? None.”
“What? How can that be?”
“Let’s see…it says here that three days ago you apparently called three ex-girlfriends while under the influence of alcohol, causing a deduction. There was a bar-fight last Thursday that you participated in—no, I’m sorry, instigated. And then there was your sister’s wedding—”
“I know what I did at Shelia’s wedding.” At least, Slug knew what they said he did at his sister’s wedding. It was all sort of a blur.
“That poor flower girl…” said the bartender, scanning the report.
“Forget alcohol,” Slug said. “How about some cocaine?”
“Not after your last misadventure with it. I wouldn’t go back to that aquarium anytime soon, either.”
“Ecstasy?”
“Nope.” The bartender cocked an eyebrow. “Forty poodles? All of them?”
“I don’t want to talk about it.” The blue-haired girl was now deep in conversation with a guy sporting leopard-print facial stubble. Slug pinched his nose in frustration. “What can I get?”
The bartender placed two pill capsules in front of him. Slug looked at the bartender’s grin in askance.
“Diet pills and ginseng, sir. The finest in the house!”
Slug weighed his options. It didn’t take very long. “I’ll take ‘em.”
“Excellent, sir. Shall I send some over to the young lady?”
“You know what? I think I’ll just take these to go. Think I’m gonna spend the night in.”

from 365tomorrows.com