USA - Police entrapment - what can they do?

[beentheredonethatagain]

I have a rabbit who keeps an ear to the ground. His buddies clued him to this setup that got a friend in some deep soup.

here is what happened, a friend of a friend had some Ephedrine for sale, not pills but just clean powder, Joe Blow bought some from the guy , and later in the month he did the rxn, and as soon as he did, the door came down, the law was just waiting for him to put things in motion then they hit.

Because it turns out the police had sceamed up the plan to put efed on the street to see who bit , and once they did , the law just waited for the cook and hello.

The dude got like 21 yrs for that mess, he did recieve it suspended, which means he is doing a 21yr sentence on the street.

beware of easy ephedrine. it could be a trick.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for sharing this

[Bikelbees]

What is doing the rxn?

[old hippie 56]

Swim thinks he talking about cooking up a batch. Swim hear about this before.

[Alekseev]

Originally Posted by beentheredonethatagain

I have a rabbit who keeps an ear to the ground. His buddies clued him to this setup that got a friend in some deep soup.

here is what happened, a friend of a friend had some Ephedrine for sale, not pills but just clean powder, Joe Blow bought some from the guy , and later in the month he did the rxn, and as soon as he did, the door came down, the law was just waiting for him to put things in motion then they hit.

Because it turns out the police had sceamed up the plan to put efed on the street to see who bit , and once they did , the law just waited for the cook and hello.

The dude got like 21 yrs for that mess, he did recieve it suspended, which means he is doing a 21yr sentence on the street.

beware of easy ephedrine. it could be a trick.

Can SWIY say "entrapment?" Of course, our justice system would say no because Joe bought freely, but it's still wrong, in SWIM's opinion. I think SWIM recalls the terms "lies" and "deceit..."

[Bikelbees]

Originally Posted by Alekseev

Can SWIY say "entrapment?" Of course, our justice system would say no because Joe bought freely, but it's still wrong, in SWIM's opinion. I think SWIM recalls the terms "lies" and "deceit..."

Clearly if the state are enticing people by offering drugs or precursors then clearly it is a trap, and given the much touted massive temptation potential of drugs (whether for consumption or business), it is entrapment IMO but a permited tool legally for prosecutors.

[hh339]

SWiM would be EXTREMELY careful with buying pure ephedrine HCl. It's as watched as P2P's. Ephedra extracts rock.

[Solinari]

Entrapment would be if a cop offered drugs to someone then busted them for saying yes. Using snitches and supplying them with stuff to supply then bust people, well i don't know what that is, but there must be something illegal somewhere along the line.

Never the less, if Joe asked a cop posing as a dealer if he had any drugs then that would not be entrapment. It's only entrapment if law enforcement entice someone to commit a crime they wouldn't have otherwise committed. Offering drugs is one way to entice, but asking for drugs is them doing it anyway.

Sounds to me like this guy with the ephedrine is in cahoots with the cops, or at least someone is anyway.

Bottom line, cops LIE, they are allowed to lie and they always lie, don't believe a word that comes out their lying mouths, they will say anything to get you to incriminate yourself and it often works.

[beentheredonethatagain]

Nik lives in an area where meth labs were the norm, every day it seemed or close to it, a lab would get busted on the news.

The law enforcment agencies from seven small cities that border each other got together a meth task force unit, and they would gather information to use to obtain search warrants.

That was several years ago.

When the new laws on psedoephedrine went into effect that practically eleminated the mom and pop garage and kitchen labs.

Now the task force is still collecting money from the cities, with nothing to show for it. This I guess is when they devised a plan to bring out some potential cooks. Job security it seems.

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Archive Additions - Good Music.

[Police Officer]

Originally Posted by Bikelbees

Clearly if the state are enticing people by offering drugs or precursors then clearly it is a trap, and given the much touted massive temptation potential of drugs (whether for consumption or business), it is entrapment IMO but a permited tool legally for prosecutors.

Yep.

Originally Posted by Solinari

It's only entrapment if law enforcement entice someone to commit a crime they wouldn't have otherwise committed.

Bottom line, cops LIE, they are allowed to lie...

Yep.

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I admire your honesty

[Felonious Skunk]

This isn't a new game by any means...

[VincentVan]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

Yep.



Yep.

Not only that guys.
Cops are trained to lie, and they are mostly valued by their superiors on the basis of how good liers , snitches and traitors they are.
Quite naturally after a couple of years on the job, it becomes their natural way of being and expressing themselves with anybody, including their families , wifes, kids and ( if they have any) friends.
It's not by chance that cops have the highest percentage of divorces, and enstranged families among workers in any field and that if they do have friends, they are nearly exclusively other cops or jailers, or maybe a few snitches.
If an individual would' nt be self righteous, violent, ready to lie, cheat and hurt his fellow humans, he would never think of joining a police force in the first place; and anyway if he didn¨t aquire these chracteristics before the end of training period he would never make it into any police force.

[old hippie 56]

Always Halloween at the cop shops, they trick you into doing something illegal and treat their selves to your assets.

[Police Officer]

Originally Posted by old hippie 56

Always Halloween at the cop shops, they trick you into doing something illegal and treat their selves to your assets.

Hippie, I dont agree. Entrapment is define by Wikipedia as: In jurisprudence, entrapment is a legal defense by which a defendant may argue that he or she should not be held criminally liable for actions which broke the law, because he/she was induced (or entrapped) by the police to commit those acts. For the defense to be successful, the defendant must demonstrate that the police induced an otherwise unwilling person to commit a crime.

If we get some Joe Nobody to start cooking meth who wouldve never done it before-but for the Police, well then that's entrapment. However, if the cops give a known meth cook ephedrine and he uses it to cook meth, well thats not entrapment at all. I'd say thats just good policing. The law dosent always work against justice, sometimes it works towards it. Thats just how I see it.

[trptamene]

^^Then hand you over to real criminals so they can treat themselves to your ass.

to the WOD

increased attention on the WOD, WMD's...its all part of the govt's plot to keep Americans off the real problems that the government has created in this country & the fact that over 6 years after 911 we still have yet to make him face the music. Instead we decide to invade countries that did nothing to us and invade homes of harmless citizens. World Police? how about World Fascists.

[Bikelbees]

PO, just because someone has defined it so, doesn't mean that its right. You also have to ask when and why this "will" came into action. Justice in the words of a local judge is for him "upstairs" and it ain't found just because some police smash up a drug kitchen and bust everyone to hell.

I don't like this kind of policing as someone's interest in drugs could be lying dormant only to be momentarily re-kindled by this opportunity created by the police. So they are not "unwilling" as such, but this kind of set-up is particularly unpleasant given that IMO the drugs should not be illegal in the first place, secondly drugs are of particularly strong temptation to be the bait to catch the alleged would-be violator (this attraction being the very point of their illegality one would think), and of course this artificial situation cashes in on the unrequited needs of its victims in a cynical and exploitative way.

Reputation Comments on this post:

uhm, yeah!!

[old hippie 56]

"However, if the cops give a known meth cook ephedrine and he uses it to cook meth, well thats not entrapment at all. I'd say thats just good policing."
Sounds like entrapment to swim, that just like letting a kid loose in the candy store. The lure of easy money is too much for a cook. Swim swore off cooking years ago, but he been offered everything from chemicals to a whole setup. After he told them to shove off, they keep coming back. All in the name of justice, my ass, they looking for a quick and easy bust.
He knowns a cook who bought some chemicals from a task force member. He turn around and sold them for tidy profit. Weeks pass, they done a search warrant on his house, turned up nothing. Couldn't prove nothing, the cops lost their chemicals. Settled a lawsuit out of court for harassment.

[Felonious Skunk]

And of course dangling large sums of money in front of somebody who works at McDonalds and lives with rats the size of small dogs should always result in the ethical citizen refusing the drug cooking/selling gig because by God he should be grateful to flip burgers for the benefit of Amerika's elite.

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent point

[hh339]

I have seen that in USA, maybe in just some states(?), people actually have their cars confiscated after buying a dimebag of weed from undercover cops. To me this would mean that cops can/will steal your car if you buy drugs when in your car. True? Maybe they can take your house too? Anyway, who cares what wikipedia says about these things, it still SUCKS! And anyone who supports that kind of fascism SUCK ASS! (if you ask me..)

[toe]

Originally Posted by hh339

I have seen that in USA, maybe in just some states(?), people actually have their cars confiscated after buying a dimebag of weed from undercover cops. To me this would mean that cops can/will steal your car if you buy drugs when in your car. True?

If you are arrested for any reason after being stopped while driving, it's pretty standard that your vehicle will be impounded. They do the same thing to a vehicle abandoned on the side of the highway. Same deal if they find your vehicle after it's been reported stolen. Different cities have different procedures for what getting your car back entails, but you *always* get to pay for the privilege of having it towed in the first place, in addition to "storage fees"- which they manage to accrue pretty easily by being located in the middle of nowhere and only being open for a 3.5 hours per day, on 3 mornings a week.

[hh339]

So the owner always gets the car back? I thought otherwise. Anyway, tricking people to commit crimes still sucks ass!

[Felonious Skunk]

Originally Posted by hh339

So the owner always gets the car back? I thought otherwise.

Here's how it works:

When the cops take your shit, they get to keep it if you're convicted of, for example, using the vehicle "in the commission of" buying a dime bag of weed.

They then place a tiny tiny ad in the newspaper advertising a "public" auction where all the shit they have taken goes up for sale. Of course nobody notices this tiny ad and the people who end up buying your shit for peanuts are the friends and family of the cops that shook you down.

So basically your Corvette winds up in the driveway of a cop's nephew who's never worked a fucking day in his life because you tried to score $10 worth of weed on the street.

It's quite a racket and the inevitable result of "asset forfeitures" that don't return funds realized from seizures back to the public. If seized assets were handled independently and the funds used to build rehab centers, the cops would no longer give a fuck about your dime-bag score.

But as long as seized assets are handled by and earmarked for LE, then the intent of asset forfeiture will be corrupted by greed and human nature. The lesson here is always drive a junkmobile (held together with duct tape is a plus) to the dealer because if the sheriff's wife can't be seen in it you'll always get it back.

[Police Officer]

Originally Posted by VincentVan

Not only that guys.
Cops are trained to lie, and they are mostly valued by their superiors on the basis of how good liers , snitches and traitors they are.
Quite naturally after a couple of years on the job, it becomes their natural way of being and expressing themselves with anybody, including their families , wifes, kids and ( if they have any) friends.
It's not by chance that cops have the highest percentage of divorces, and enstranged families among workers in any field and that if they do have friends, they are nearly exclusively other cops or jailers, or maybe a few snitches.
If an individual would' nt be self righteous, violent, ready to lie, cheat and hurt his fellow humans, he would never think of joining a police force in the first place; and anyway if he didn¨t aquire these chracteristics before the end of training period he would never make it into any police force.

The underlined = WOW. I got a laugh out of that, so did a couple of people who I showed it to. I'm not trying to be insulting, but Come...On. lol

Ok, would it be cool if I took every single negative thing that I've ever heard about drug users and just called them facts? It seems that this is what you've done. If I'm wrong then please support you post with something/anything.

And as far as the divorce rates go...How many of you know someone who is looking for their 2nd wife? Pretty much everyone. Seems now-a-days everyone has been divorced. Now, everyones not a Police Officer, so there must be a different explanation.

Originally Posted by Bikelbees

PO, just because someone has defined it so, doesn't mean that its right. You also have to ask when and why this "will" came into action. Justice in the words of a local judge is for him "upstairs" and it ain't found just because some police smash up a drug kitchen and bust everyone to hell.

If justice is upstairs then I would imagine that justice is doing whats right. I would say that smashing up a drug lab is justice.

Originally Posted by hh339

I have seen that in USA, maybe in just some states(?), people actually have their cars confiscated after buying a dimebag of weed from undercover cops. To me this would mean that cops can/will steal your car if you buy drugs when in your car. True? Maybe they can take your house too?

I've heard of this too. I've never seen it or met anyone who works in a place where this is common practice. It would be interesting if you, hh, could locate a place where this is common practice.

It is common practice to seize assets from and related to narcotics sales and trafficking.

Originally Posted by Felonious Skunk

Here's how it works:

When the cops take your shit, they get to keep it if you're convicted of, for example, using the vehicle "in the commission of" buying a dime bag of weed.

They then place a tiny tiny ad in the newspaper advertising a "public" auction where all the shit they have taken goes up for sale. Of course nobody notices this tiny ad and the people who end up buying your shit for peanuts are the friends and family of the cops that shook you down.

So basically your Corvette winds up in the driveway of a cop's nephew who's never worked a fucking day in his life because you tried to score $10 worth of weed on the street.

That is somewhat true. The auctions that I have seen are very well publicised. And usually the money is earmarked and goes to the state. I know of one state in particular where any drug seizure money is mandated to go to the state school system.



Here is a question for you guys: Do you view drug buys by undercover Police Officers as entrapment?

[Felonious Skunk]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

Here is a question for you guys: Do you view drug buys by undercover Police Officers as entrapment?

Nope. We might bitch and moan about the legitimacy of the drug laws, but it's just undercover police work--something we all accept when the operation targets pedophiles or somebody looking for a contract murder.

[Bikelbees]

Originally Posted by Felonious Skunk

Nope. We might bitch and moan about the legitimacy of the drug laws, but it's just undercover police work--something we all accept when the operation targets pedophiles or somebody looking for a contract murder.

I don't accept it. There are some people we need off the streets and I'm glad to see the police get them, but not at the cost of doing away with liberties such as privacy. Sex offenders were the thin end of the wedge when it came to curtailing freedoms. These people exist because of a sick society, but IMO we cannot change anything whilst we ask the state that created ignorrance to protect us from its own failures.

[Bikelbees]

I'm re-naming this thread and welcoming any examples of tricks used by the police to lure SWIY's into criminal conduct concerning drugs.