Drug info - 1-(Quinoxalin-6-ylcarbonyl)piperidine (CX516)

[enquirewithin]

1-(Quinoxalin-6-ylcarbonyl)piperidine

Does anyone know anything about this one?

It would appear to be more of a nootropic than a psychoactive one, perhaps capable of enhancing memory?

Studies in rats have shown that ampakine compounds improve olfactory learning, facilitate acquisition of a conditioned fear response, improve short-term memory, reverse age-associated memory impairment in middle-aged rats, reduce spontaneous unmotivated exploratory activity in familiar environments, increase speed at which rats collect rewards in a spatial maze, and improve methamphetamine-induced hyperactivity and stereotypic behavior (Granger et al. 1993, 1996; Hampson et al. 1998; Staubli et al. 1994; Larson et al. 1996). Many of the ampakine studies in rats and humans have utilized a benzamide compound CX516 (1-quinoxalin-6-ylcarbonyl piperidine). Although this compound has a shorter half-life and lowered potency compared to newer ampakines, it has shown relative safety in human trials. In young adult men, CX516, in doses in the 600- to 1,200-mg range, helped delayed recall of nonsense words but not immediate recall, compared to controls (Lynch et al. 1996). There were no significant changes in mood or arousal as determined by self-report questionnaires after the use of CX516.

http://www.nfxf.org/html/ampakines.htm

Reputation Comments on this post:

good start of information

[toe]

De Nada. But very interesting. If I'm comprehending this :

. . .reduce spontaneous unmotivated exploratory activity in familiar environments, . . . and improve methamphetamine-induced hyperactivity and stereotypic behavior

It sounds like it could have the potential to finally make pharmaceutical treatment of ADHD a possibility for speed freaks. The fact that the same type of symptoms induced by careless treatment of the syndrome are used to diagnose it upon initial presentation is more than a mindbender. It's been an enormous barrier between countless troops of "known users" and treatment of a neurological disorder that robs its victims of the opportunity to live a full life in a whole host of ways. Unfortunately there seem to be fewer and fewer doctors who are willing to simply consider details of patient drug use as part of the diagnostic scheme, and prefer to auto sort every kind of use directly into the pathological "disorder" slot.

If I'm not mistaken, self-medication with stimulants has long been considered a classic trait of undiagnosed ADHD. Self-medication seems to have been recognized as a legitimate diagnostic trait for a variety of issues (alcohol for anxiety-driven disorders, opiates for chronic pain, depressants/stimulants for corresponding phases of bi-polar disorder, cannibis for et al) by some subset of professionals in recent history. But -despite the current climate- I seem to recall encountering a lot more support for the cocaine-use-as-diagnostic then I have come across for the others. I don't know if this is because I'm recalling older sources- a la textbooks I recall browsing through as a kid when they wound up in our library. The nursing school texts would have been no more current than the 70s.

At any rate, my point is that long before the US DEA took control over medicine in the US, people were able to admit to having a sign of this disorder. It was recognized as a sign of ADHD, rather than a symptom of a substance-abuse disorder. And it was treated, even, as ADHD- with methylphenidate.

Sorry, I got a bit off track there.

[Zaprenz]

SWIM can't show links (As they are on other forums) but there are the very very few reports out there of this substance.

Positive reports so far, most claiming it as a useful compound. Not suggesting they have the same effects but some have said much like modafinil it stands out from the croud as one of the few "nootropics" where a difference is felt (+potentially useful).

This is just SWIMS opinion but SWIM would say serious caution is needed:

No one knows the long term effects of healthy, young individuals taking for example modafinil on their brain many years down the line but at least modafinil has passed clinical trials and has a number of years safety data on it.

This compound & other ampakines are currently very expensive and the above^ is one of the first of it's kind. Considering it's potentially a research chemical which people are going to take frequently as a lifestyle type drug (so prolonged dosing). SWIM would personally recommend caution until more is known. If someone gets extreme early onset alzeimers from taking this (after buying it from an RC vendor or custom synth) - they are not going to be paying compensation!!

This might sound alarmist but if it's really that usefull it wont be long until it gets on the market (SWIM would bet most people could wait). Gut instinct tells SWIM anything that messes around with glutaminergic signalling and is reported to have so many positive effects must have some down sides at least. [SSRI's were going to cure the world of depression & stress, Benzo's were going to be safe reliable sleeping tablets - both were vast improvements on what had gone before but the problems took many years to find out - research in ampakines is relatively new it will take a while to find out the long term implications]

Reputation Comments on this post:

	quality post
	exactly what needed to be said

[radiometer]

^^ The above post echoes my thoughts exactly. I do not feel good at all about this product being sold alongside entactogens and marketed via spamming public boards. Besides the above issues, I'm particularly worried that one will be reading the first 100mg+ "trip report" within weeks of the commencement of deliveries of this product.

[enquirewithin]

Hopefully this thread will help inform people somewhat. My horse has never been one for 'nootropics' anyway.

[radiometer]

Having a closer look at the abstact you quoted, I see I was far off in arbitrarily picking 100mg as a huge dose. Not following nootropics very much, I has the erroneous impression that their dosages are very low. Though this study could perhaps be biased, I am assuaged by the use of the phrase "given the lack of major safety problems with CX516."

[enquirewithin]

I think one of the qualities of so-called 'nootropics' is lack of toxicity, like 'food additives.'

[Zaprenz]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

I think one of the qualities of so-called 'nootropics' is lack of toxicity, like 'food additives.'

That's the ideal concept people want them to be(+write about). A drug which improves cognition, improves lifespan, improves XYZ etc with no or minimal toxicity.

The "nootropics" currently available weren't designed as safe "food additive" type drugs - they were put through clinical trials + research and just happened to show benefit with relatively minimal toxicity.

There is certainly no regulation on the term "nootropic" and there are no set safety standards.


As for ampakines -> there is no reason why they should be looked at as anything less or fundamentally safer than any other type of pre-clinical medicine. [full of potential benefits as well as unknown side effects]