Health - Overdoing it on MDMA - Long-Term Effects?

[brunobrookes]

Four months ago SWIM had a really heavy weekend on MDMA, taking what could be deemed a "neurotoxic" dose (around one gram of MDMA on Friday and Saturday). After the festival he felt really strange for about a month - he had a really fuzzy, anxious head and couldnt concentrate to even read properly. Although this has improved somewhat he hasn't really been the same since. His short term memory is still bad, he has trouble concentrating and forgets to do things all the time. He was a really intelligent lad but is now having trouble thinking laterally like he used to and is concerned that he has destroyed brain cells. He tends to be alot more anxious now than in the past and is worried he has lost the zesty, outgoing love for life.

What he would like to know is, after a prolongued period of time (say 1-2 years), will his intelligence and "old self" return? There must be people on here who have "over done it" on an occasion, and SWIM would really like to know about their experiences and recovery after abstaining from MDMA for a long period of time.

In terms of useage history, SWIM has never had major problems with MDMA before. Although he has taken it fairly frequently in the past, dose was always low and any side effects cleared up within a couple of weeks.

Any help appreciated!

[brunobrookes]

Anyone?

[julian]

swim's advice would be to ignore the perceived aftereffects in hope that is all it is, a perception of your current state. whether or not actual damage has been done to your brain may be impossible to determine. all swim can say is the more you think about this affecting your intelligence and your life, the more it WILL affect your intelligence and your life. the more power you give to your current state (good or bad), the more power it will have over you.

[tinytom]

me wee rocket took a break from MDMA then returned after the first time he felt slightly sudated, he suggests that you take a break for a while and take it easy if you return.

[Mr. Giraffe]

It is possible, but not likely, that you have caused brain damage.

MDMA works by manipulating the body's seratonin levels, and in terms of how it functions, it's quite harsh on the brain. It doesn't mimic neurotransmitters and then dissipate like cannabis, for example. It does the equivalent of going in there, pulling all your brain's pleasure levers and hitting all of your feelgood buttons. The problem is that, the more MDMA you take, the more you're messing with your brain's natural ability to produce and balance its seratonin levels. My advice: start taking B vitamins, omega acids, steer clear of MDMA and consider taking up a cannabis habit.

[sknkv2]

Originally Posted by mr giraffe

and consider taking up a cannabis habit.

Was that a joke?

WIth time, you will be back to normal. There is a great chance you did some damage to your serotonergic system as it was such a high dose, but studies suggest a period of abstinence usually allowed the brain to repair itself almost completely from even high doses such as SWIY's.

[Mr. Giraffe]

Originally Posted by insert_username_here

Was that a joke?

Not at all, cannabis is an effective anti-depressant, and will be particularly helpful in facilitating someone who isn't our friend in the natural release of dopamine which might help with some of his symptoms.

[6chr0nic4]

I would like to know the exact same of what swiy posted!!

because swim doesnt feel the same anymore, feels slow as hell in school, zones out a lot more frequently, and just feels like a dumbass, WILL THE OLD SELF RETURN!!!???

swim thinks a lot of ppl on this forum neglect and are in denial for the fact E causes neurodamage, any prolonged state where ur brain is altered on a consistant basis will damage it... highly wouldnt doubt a lot of it is permanant, just look at the day afters, try doing something like math or reading, its a lot harder...

swim has friends that are harsh etards and are living proof

[sknkv2]

Originally Posted by mr giraffe

Not at all, cannabis is an effective anti-depressant, and will be particularly helpful in facilitating someone who isn't our friend in the natural release of dopamine which might help with some of his symptoms.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend starting a "habit" on any drug to anyone, especially when the depression felt (in this case) will probably disappear over time. You didn't really explain why you recommended it in the original post so I guess what you said makes more sense now, however it is still probably not the right advice given the fact the depression will eventually subside.

[Mr. Giraffe]

Originally Posted by insert_username_here

Personally, I wouldn't recommend starting a "habit" on any drug to anyone, especially when the depression felt (in this case) will probably disappear over time. You didn't really explain why you recommended it in the original post so I guess what you said makes more sense now, however it is still probably not the right advice given the fact the depression will eventually subside.

I'm sure my advice won't influence our mutual friends drug intake. I was being a little tongue-in-cheek originally (since I assume that our mutual friend has experience of cannabis and doesn't need me to recommend it to him), though I believe that the process I described is fairly familiar to many E users who use cannabis -knowingly or otherwise - to relieve the come-down from E.

[6chr0nic4]

can more ppl answer this question? is it just preception that u feel different due to chemical imbalance in the brain, its funny how ppl suggest neurodamage hasnt been proven yet all the etards swim knows seem half brain dead...

its really sad and swim doesnt want to end up like them but feels swim is sort of heading down that path

swim drops pills about once every 3-4 months, which from this board seems to be a somewhat reasonable interval, yet after everytime, he feels dumber and dumber and unable to concentrate/remember things as well, anyone feel similar?

Reputation Comments on this post:

SWIY needs a head doctor not advice on a forum

[Mr. Giraffe]

Originally Posted by 6chr0nic4

swim drops pills about once every 3-4 months, which from this board seems to be a somewhat reasonable interval, yet after everytime, he feels dumber and dumber and unable to concentrate/remember things as well, anyone feel similar?

I can't help but wonder why SWIM continues to take it when it is clear that SWIM has a completely negative perception of the experience. Do you need someone here to tell you to stop? If you're not happy with it, don't do it. Read up on the subject, find out what you can do to help rebalance yourself, there's plenty of good advice in this section.

If it isn't fun for you anymore, stop. Take responsibility for yourself man.

[6chr0nic4]

yeah ur right

[Petethemeat]

Once every 3 or 4 months is a good general bit of advice for a user, yet you know your own body better than we do. Taking a gram of pure mdma is I would venture neurotoxic. If repeated I believe even more so. I believe your current state will fade with time, as the brain is fairly good at repairing the damage you put it through.

Yet if you are having these kind of doubts, it might just be worth giving it up. Perhaps you will do it a few years from now, but take it easy because drugs are fine, but a healthy state of mind is better.

Reputation Comments on this post:

positive & useful post

[6chr0nic4]

k thanks guys!

[SWIH]

i'd like to stick my oar in univited as its a topic close to my heart. swim has taken similar sort of dosage to what you describe fairly regularly over quite an extended period - although rather than a gram one night and another the next night it would be more like 2 spread over twelve hours or so, with a bit of charlie and a fair bit of gbl into the mix as well. swim would get quite serious dizzy spells and mind blanks for some weeks and months afterwards, and i could quite believe it if anyone was to say it's brain damage. the main point about long term effects of mdma is that it ain't been around long enough for anyone to know properly has it. if the mental hospitals are overflowing with ex ravers by the time our kids reach their teens, they'll know not to take it eh.

lovely stuff though, if only it did what viagra does too, it would be THE perfect substance!

[SWIH]

oh yeh and has swiy been smoking dope during the period you describe? only swim was lethal for things like paranoia and inability to concentrate (and laziness, clumsiness etc etc) in his smoking days.... it was a genuine shock to realise how much of these were a direct result of smoking too much skunk.

[BlondieUK]

Well, my friend believes that it's more or less all in your head..

My friend is a young male, who weighs 9 1/2 stone, and on new years eve squared off a gram of MDMA (shared a little with some friends), some coke, and some other things.

My friend woke up feeling fine and has no percieved after effects.

However, my friend felt very off kilter for a few weeks after an ecstacy binge, which is significantly weaker than MDMA - why? Because my friend THOUGHT he was going off the rails.

Accept that you had a good time, stop thinking you're fucked up, and relax. Go and enjoy life =)

[searchfunction]

SWIM has done a couple of thousand pills, with up to 30 at one sitting. SWIM can't guarantee all these were MDMA (and therefore that the following are attributable to MDMA), in fact some definitely weren't but most were. SWIM notes both SWIMself and other E abusers have problems with short-term memory. SWIM also has a small amount of problem with speech, sometimes saying a connected word instead of the word SWIM meant to say. SWIM has abused lots of other drugs, but at different times so is able to attribute these effects mostly to E. SWIM has noticed minor personality changes and a slighty reduced control over emotional impulse control. SWIM also notes emotional response is slightly blunted (other than primal emotions) and emotions appear in somewhat different situations to what they once did. If these do not match SWIY's symptoms, the reason for this is left to SWIY to ponder.

The good news is SWIM noticed some improvement to all of the above symptoms which built up during the course of 3 years of abstinence. SWIM is not the same as SWIM once was, but the damage is fairly minor, a few of the personality changes are even advantageous. None the less, over-all the effect is negative.

SWIM would advise doing MDMA maybe 4 times a year at most, taking the minimal amount needed to get a buzz and if SWIY have already been doing it more than that to pack it in. Obviously taking MDMA is silly anyway, though SWIM doubts there would have been much of a problem if SWIM took it 4 times a year in minimal quantities for no longer than 5 years.

SWIM would not do MDMA again and no longer gets the effect from it SWIM once did anyway. Don't be silly like SWIM was, but if SWIY has already screwed it up, it does get a little better so don't despair too much.

There is also this story from the guardian about a man who took 40000 pills over 5 years:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Stor...746333,00.html

Obviously the guy in the story has a lot of problems, but the guy also took an awful lot of pills. I don't know why an earlier poster said MDMA is weaker than ecstasy as that is not true, SWIM has also taken MDMA powder. Good ecstasy is obviously exactly the same drug as MDMA powder. Perhaps the previous poster or the object of their story simply has never had good ecstasy pills.

SWIM would also second SWIH's notion as to the effects skunk can have. Skunk affects different people in very different ways. During chronic usage, it made SWIM so stupid at one point that SWIM couldn't remember how to buy a bus ticket, prompting SWIM to become a very, very casual and occasional smoker in future which provided vast improvements to SWIMs mental agility. SWIY may not have considered this if their friends are not affected in this manner by skunk.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very informative, honest and insightful

[SWIH]

"Well, my friend believes that it's more or less all in your head..

My friend is a young male, who weighs 9 1/2 stone, and on new years eve squared off a gram of MDMA"

to be fair when swim was in his prime he was a young male of 9 1/2 stone too and he would probably have been equally as dismissive of anyone's health concerns of ecstacy abuse back then (and he reckons the pills back then were generally of greater strength and higher quality FWIW).... Fifteen or so years (and three stone) down the line i reckon his opinions might be considered a bit wiser - they're definitely the result of some very extensive research.

[BlondieUK]

Originally Posted by SWIH

"Well, my friend believes that it's more or less all in your head..

My friend is a young male, who weighs 9 1/2 stone, and on new years eve squared off a gram of MDMA"

to be fair when swim was in his prime he was a young male of 9 1/2 stone too and he would probably have been equally as dismissive of anyone's health concerns of ecstacy abuse back then (and he reckons the pills back then were generally of greater strength and higher quality FWIW).... Fifteen or so years (and three stone) down the line i reckon his opinions might be considered a bit wiser - they're definitely the result of some very extensive research.

Touché

I just don't think the guy needs to worry, he'll be alright, he's thinking negatively and it's screwing with his head.

But also, I wouldn't say I'm experienced enough to give any sort of extensive advice on it, just that I seem to be okay, and I party pretty hard once in a while.

[SWIH]

Originally Posted by BlondieUK

Touché

I just don't think the guy needs to worry, he'll be alright, he's thinking negatively and it's screwing with his head.

But also, I wouldn't say I'm experienced enough to give any sort of extensive advice on it, just that I seem to be okay, and I party pretty hard once in a while.

yeh no worries mate i weren't trying to shit in yer picnic basket, and i pretty much think anything in moderation is ok for most people

but, all our swimmers are the first generation of mdma users, the guinea pigs, so no-ones that qualified to give extensive advice anyway

also, as for thinking negatively and screwing with his head, well we are talking about substances that directly affect the brain aren't we, the control centre of our emotions... so to disassociate how he's thinking and how he's feeling from the drugs (someone who ain't) he's been taking is nonsensical surely?

[BlondieUK]

Thats a very good point,

very true about the guinnea pigs too.. eek!

[Stuck]

SWIM did molly 6 times over the course of a month and a half. His last roll wasnt even a roll. It had lost all magic and just felt like a crappy adderall buzz. Now he's developed a nervous twitch all over. He figures he twitches about 20 times a minute...annoying.

100th post!

[searchfunction]

SWIM also has occasional "twitches" (a series of non-painful rapid muscular spasms) though isn't sure they are down to E as they appeared some time after SWIM stopped taking MDMA. SWIM is lucky that SWIMs "twitches" are in non-obvious places that you'd never notice and far less frequent (maybe 3 or 4 times a minute, but there are also long periods where no spasms happen before they re-appear). SWIM presents this as circumstantial evidence and hadn't thought that it might be the MDMA until Stuck's SWIM character suggested it.

SWIM no longer finds magic in there either, Someone who isn't Stuck. (SWIS?). SWIM is curious if SWIS also experiences any blunting of emotions, reduced emotional control or short term memory issues? SWIM knows there are other characters in the world who have the short term memory and reduced emotional control but as far as SWIM knows, SWIM is the only one to experience emotional blunting. SWIM thinks it's likely there are other characters with this who SWIM just hasn't come across.