Netherlands - Dutch parliament proposes new laws to get rid of Growshops

[Alfa]

The Dutch parliament agreed on a proposition to install serious measures to make survival for growshops practically impossible. Parliament sees growshops as portals for organized crime, since growing cannabis is illegal in the Netherlands. The proposition calls for laws that will raise the sentences for cannabis related crimes to 8 years. According to the proposition Growshops will be held responsible if their customer use their products to grow cannabis.

Most growshops will likely not survive such measures and cannabis growers will have to turn to more liberal countries like Germany or Belgium.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for sharing.

[fnord]

well the shops will close and people will start using mail order im assuming. shitty deal though i thought the dutch were generally pot friendly?well at least compared to the us.

[Alfa]

Since 2001, the once very liberal Netherlands has been in control of a government that is more conservative than the Bush government. The liberal country has been changing rapidly. Much of the liberal aspects of the Dutch society have been taken down already and this is continuing every day.

Reputation Comments on this post:

shit....

[MrG]

What's your take on the political situation there Alfa? Six years is long enough for most societies to start turning on their governments, is there any sign of the neo-con's being turfed out at the next election?

[Alfa]

The current vice-premier (as they call the dutch president of government) has been the vice-premier since Pim Fortuyn was executed and has been able to crash 3 governments so far. Still the vice-premier his party has been reelected and is now in office for the 4th time. This alone is very strange. I don't know what's going on. The current government was able to predict that they would still be in office in 2010 and by the looks of it they seem to be right. I suspect electronic voting machines are to blame.

[Woodman]

Originally Posted by Alfa

The current vice-premier (as they call the dutch president of government) has been the vice-premier since Pim Fortuyn was executed ...

The current government was able to predict that they would still be in office in 2010, and by the looks of it they seem to be right. I suspect electronic voting machines are to blame.

Well, another assassination would be rather obvious and likely result in political backlash.

[Spliff420]

SWIM thinks the Dutch government will get a hard time passing through a law like that.

What if the store owner only sells the products? Only talks about 'tulips'? And has no sign about cannabis in his store anywhere? Impossible to bust them for selling lights.

If they bust the growshop owner for selling lights which their clients used for the cultivation of cannabis. Then they also have to bust the producer of the lights. Let it just happen that Ph*lips is one of the major Dutch companies, selling lights which are favorite by many growers. Are they going to bust the CEO of that company also?

SWIM just doesn't know how, in any way, they can pass through a law like that...

On the other hand, the current Dutch government is crazy enough now...

[Nature Boy]

That is incredible. So in terms of growshops, the Netherlands will actually be behind the rest of Europe for the first time ever. Why in the world are the Dutch people behind this government that is hell-bent on crushing liberalism? They obviously aim to stay in power for the next decade and completely subdue the drug tolerance policies in place but surely their popularity will drop by then. What's their secret, what's their appeal? Surely their popularity isn't purely based on their strict anti-terrorism stance because the Netherlands' terrorism problem pales in significance to say Britain, France or Germany.

[Alfa]

I don't know. I do not know anybody who voted for the Christian democrats, besides my grandma. Nor do any of my friends know more than a few people that voted for them. Maybe it's just that the population of the Netherlands is getting old and it is the elderly that vote for them.

[stoneinfocus]

My theory is, that they infested the partys with neo-cons, logic- and real-world deprived chistians and fascist. You don´t need a fascist party, once your men are in the right place and work things out to their will.

It has to happen something, it seems like it´s all the same in the EU-countries.

[Alfa]

Electoral victory for right wings Christian democrats and other neo-cons does seem to be trend throughout Europe.

[juanathan]

ive lived in humble americuh my whole life, but my guess is that non-drug-using dutchies are getting tired of raucous foreigners coming and exploiting their liberal lifestyle. for non-users, the novelty of an avant-garde legal system is wearing off fast.

[Nature Boy]

Those stoner tourists pump serious money into the economy however. Compared to Amsterdam, think of spending a weekend on a city break in another major European city. Without pot on the menu, many people wouldn't spend nearly as much money. The novelty of decriminalised pot to flocks of young tourists is a serious money-maker.

[rxbandit]

what i do not understand is why countries are adopting more stringent drug policies. In these modern times more and more studies that show the merits and lack of risk associated with drugs is being published. It is accepted that prohibition does not work and the anti drug climate still seems to be proliferating... what gives?

[OccularFantasm]

The only constant swim knows of is that the U.S. is constantly putting pressure on foreign nations to institute similar laws as they have here, specifically in regards to drug policy, vaccines, and abortion. The part that doesn't add up however, is that this is not new. Why it would have remained ineffective for years and then suddenly a trend breaks out, I cannot explain. Perhaps they recently received a great deal more aid from America? I don't know if that is even something that could be checked out, but it certainly couldn't hurt. If a major increase happened around the time such changes began, for each country, I would guess a pattern could be seen to emerge. It is still odd though, as this usually only works with poor or third world countries. If anyone knows where to look for this, could their either look it up or state where such things could be found. I like to think America isn't as imperialistic and forcibly powerful as I think they are, but it is always nice to find things which prove theories like this wrong. If it turns out it can't be proven wrong, well thats even more important (and disturbing).

[Alfa]

Aid? The Netherlands is not a third world country. If the US is giving money then it's to individuals, but not to the country.

But I do think the US has a lot to do with it. The concept of 911 seems to have been exported in the form of terrorism scaremongering (which in one important terrorism case in the Netherlands was related to very dubious actions the secret service) and this has been hyped a lot. Two high profile assassinations happened, the media published large pictures of their dead bodies and this resulted in a electoral victory of the neocons.

[tip]

I do not understand is why countries are adopting more stringent drug policies. In these modern times more and more studies that show the merits and lack of risk

Who were those crazy theorists accusing lizard type aliens of taking over the planet and working there way in to the government and world powers!! Erasing human consciousness first before erasing mankind seems logical in an extermination attempt. They were just crazy druggies!!....werent they???

[dr ACE]

if Holland is planning on restricting further the open sales of marijuana in the coffee shops then this is not good. And is a sign for the medical marijuana community and other liberal activist alike.

There seems to be shifting attitudes within politics and governments surrounding cannabis and how it should be classified. Is there any hope for a free world,or at least freedom from the bondage of draconion laws and fascist regimes. there has obviously got to be some good reasons behind this u-turn in the dutch's drug policy's

[D.U.M.B]

This is sad news and SWIM feels for dutch people. They've been allowed a certain amount of freedom (when it comes to cannabis) for quite a few years and now suddenly its like "Oh no you can't do this anymore"

SWIM likes the theory on electronic voting being misused to rig elections, Ireland spent millions on this machines and have yet to use them.

[Alfa]

As usual such law proposals are preceded by news bulletins about the organized crime and violence. The national news a few days ago mentioned executions and criminal organizations that force the ordinary people to grow cannabis. With news stories designed like that it is easy to build enough public support and political pressure for such laws. The same tactics where use with the coming ban on magic mushrooms: they kept on hammering negative news items until the public opinion was changed and political pressure was too high to stand up against.

[Spliff420]

SWIM understands and agrees.

But in the case of mushrooms SWIY is still talking about a psychoactive substance. In the case of growshops SWIU are talking about lights, soil etc. If a growshop owner doesn't mention or refer to cannabis in any way, but the governement still closes the shop, all hardware stores have to be closed too.

There's a difference...

[stoneinfocus]

It seems, as our history continues, that the more capitalistic and globalistic we get, the lesser the freedom the individual ought to have or the laws of a republican state will be taken into account, or abolished respectively.(here laws of the Netherlands vs. the EU)

[stoneinfocus]

... dear Alfa, what´s so liberal about germany or Belgium if I may ask ;]
don´t knowe about BE but D, damnit^^, might be liberal, but when they point a finger at you, your done witzh growing suspicious plants, even selling seeds.

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by Spliff420

SWIM understands and agrees.

But in the case of mushrooms SWIY is still talking about a psychoactive substance. In the case of growshops SWIU are talking about lights, soil etc. If a growshop owner doesn't mention or refer to cannabis in any way, but the governement still closes the shop, all hardware stores have to be closed too.

There's a difference...

If multiple customers of the same growshop get caught for growing cannabis, then the growshop would be held responsible. I know it's an absurd proposition. But that's what they want.

Originally Posted by stoneinfocus

... dear Alfa, what´s so liberal about germany or Belgium if I may ask ;]
don´t knowe about BE but D, damnit^^, might be liberal, but when they point a finger at you, your done witzh growing suspicious plants, even selling seeds.

Yes, I know both Germany and Belgium are not very liberal. There is a reason that Belgium only has a few growshops and no smartshops. But the Netherlands is trying so hard to ditch its drug policy, that pretty soon it will be tougher on drugs than either neighbouring countries.

[whery]

I have a bit of a theory about why the Christian Democrats are able to stay in office, even though many of their polices might go against the grain of many of the public. First let me disclose that I have been to Holland 30 or so times, but know very little about how their government is run. I have a lot of friends in Holland and most of them don’t like the CD, but dislike the problems with immigration even more. My friends believe that if they had a government that was to the left on policies it would open up the country to even more immigration. I’m not going to get into the immigration debate of being right or wrong only that a lot of people see immigration changing their lives more than a bunch of tourists smoking a little pot.

I am curious if Alfa would agree with my theory or if it is way off base.