Health - do i need benzos?

[blackdb1]

Swim has since he was young had very bad anxiety problems. Swim started engaging in drug use about 5 yrs ago, at first it was just like once a week. But swim has been smoking for about 4 years everyday with a couple short breaks. He had opiate issues as of about three yrs ago and struggled hard with addiction for a while. Swim had many attempts unsuccessful until about 2 and a 1/2 mnths ago he got over the feeling of just wanting opiates to just get through the day. He still uses them but just if that's the only thing he can get. Swim just likes to be high on something because he has been doing so for many years. He likes being high while doing something so he can have a better time, but doesn't have to be high everyday. He just can't deal with his anxiety without having something to take the edge off. Xanax works very well for the anxiety, but he doesn't know if this is just because of the opiates causing these past addiction problems and he just still wants to get high, or if it's that he really needs something to control these severe panic attacks, social anxiety,etc. Do you swimmers think that this is a result of opiates and other narcotics or that I actually have real anxiety issues that need to be addressed. Note swim would be using the benzo's as prescribed. Any help greatly appreciated swim needs to fix this problem

[fnord]

panic attacks = need for benzos if they interfere with ones normal social life.

for a non addictive alternative try kava or valerian etc.or try buspar(SP?)

[mitch88]

SWIM definitely suggests a slow-building drug along the lines of prozac for SWIY's anxiety issues. Benzodiazepines are not only reinforcing existing psychological drug-taking behaviors, but they also have notoriously high rates of psychological addiction in and of themselves.

SWIM won't even begin to mention the physical withdrawal issues.

[blackdb1]

Swim has tried many anti-depressants with NO success. Swim knows the risks of addiction and knows the w/d symtoms aren't any fun he was taking xanax for about three months while he was once clean off the opiates. He wasn't taking them to get high just so he didn't feel like such a mess. He just gets bad chest pains, shakes, hyperventilates, and goes on ridiculous outrages over very miniscule things. He just wonders if he completely cessated drug use for a while if it would go away, or it's a problem that would still be there even after long cessation of drug abuse? The problem is life is hell without having something for my anxiety and I just can't do well in everyday situations. This is really getting to him because earlier his mother kicked him out and he had a bad breakdown where he was doing very stupid shit that wasn't even rational and then took 2.5mgs alprazolam and was completely back to normal within 10 minutes. He at one point was thinking of going to the E.R. because he was shaking and hyperventilating so bad! Plus uncontrollable crying spells just feeling like the worlds crashing in on me, but quickly that turned to me throwing lamps around my dads house and just uncontrollable anger! He has like he said had problems with this since about 10 yrs old, he's currently 20. SWIM definately needs to figure out what to do about this situation. Someone please help me!

[mitch88]

Prozac isn't only anti-depressant. It's anti-anxiety. Effectively so.
Former associates of SWIM suffering from subtance-agitated anxiety issues (up to and including fully-realized panic attacks) have reported to SWIM on several occasions the therapeutic effects of fluoxetine.
The only problem SWIM has noticed is that (like he himself had done time and time again with St. John's Wort) people tend to stop taking the drug if it doesn't immediately help them in the first dose to first week.

[fnord]

Buspirone
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Buspirone (brand-names Ansial, Ansiced, Anxiron, Axoren, Bespar, BuSpar, Buspimen, Buspinol, Buspisal, Narol, Spitomin, Sorbon) is an anxiolytic agent and a serotonin receptor agonist belonging to the azaspirodecanedione class of compounds. Its structure is unrelated to those of the benzodiazepines, but it has an efficacy comparable to diazepam in treating generalized anxiety disorder.[1][2]

It shows no potential for addiction compared to other drugs commonly prescribed for anxiety, especially benzodiazepine medications. The development of tolerance has not been noticed. Cross-tolerance to benzodiazepines, barbiturates and alcohol does not exist. Furthermore, it is non-sedating.

It is thought to act by interfering with the function of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain, particularly by serving as a 5-HT1A presynaptic receptor partial agonist. Additionally, it acts as a mixed agonist/antagonist on postsynaptic dopamine receptors. GABA-mediated effects are lacking. Buspirone may also have indirect effects on other neurotransmitters in the brain.

The action of a single dose is much longer than the short halflife of 2-3 hours indicates. The bioavailability of buspirone is very low and variable due to extensive first pass metabolism. The drug is quickly resorbed. Taking the drug together with food may increase the bioavailability. The drug is highly (95%) plasma-bound. The active metabolite 1-PP is also a 5-HT1A partial agonist with anxiolytic properties, but weaker so than the mother-drug.

It is also useful as an augmenting agent, for the treatment of depression, when added to SSRIs.

The main disadvantage is that 1 to 3 weeks elapse before the anxiolytic activity becomes evident. Often patients have to be initially cotreated with a benzodiazepine for immediate anxiolysis. Generally, buspirone works less well than benzodiazepines. Therefore, benzodiazepines are often the first approach in immediately treating panic attacks and social phobias. It is also particularly difficult to treat patients pretreated with benzodiazepines knowing the immediate effects of these tranquilizers.

[spacelord]

It sounds pretty much like a "anxiety issues that need to be addressed". But that does not necessarily mean benzos need to be taken. Of course every physician has different practice of prescribing meds, but there also seem to be differences in different countries. In some places one gets benzos just because of being stressed out, in others there won't be a prescription for anxiety disorders' treatment. Especially not when there has been a history of addiction. And a lot of doctors will be hesitant to hand out benzos and other psychiatric medication to young people.

So SWIY should see a shrink. What antidepressant has he/she been taking? AFAIK most of them help fight off anxiety. And it is common that people need to trie several ones and even different types (tricyclic, SSRI, SNRI,...). Buspirone has already been mentioned here and seems to be a good choice. None of these can provide rapid relief like xanax does, but they help. So Xanax would be a temporary solution until other meds to show effects and for times of extreme anxiety attacks.

Last but not least psychotherapy combined with antidepressants is the most effective treatment for anxiety issues. I wish SWIY good luck.

[imyourlittlebare]

Originally Posted by blackdb1

Swim has since he was young had very bad anxiety problems. Swim started engaging in drug use about 5 yrs ago, at first it was just like once a week. But swim has been smoking for about 4 years everyday with a couple short breaks. He had opiate issues as of about three yrs ago and struggled hard with addiction for a while. Swim had many attempts unsuccessful until about 2 and a 1/2 mnths ago he got over the feeling of just wanting opiates to just get through the day. He still uses them but just if that's the only thing he can get. Swim just likes to be high on something because he has been doing so for many years. He likes being high while doing something so he can have a better time, but doesn't have to be high everyday. He just can't deal with his anxiety without having something to take the edge off. Xanax works very well for the anxiety, but he doesn't know if this is just because of the opiates causing these past addiction problems and he just still wants to get high, or if it's that he really needs something to control these severe panic attacks, social anxiety,etc. Do you swimmers think that this is a result of opiates and other narcotics or that I actually have real anxiety issues that need to be addressed. Note swim would be using the benzo's as prescribed. Any help greatly appreciated swim needs to fix this problem

First of all I sympathize. Second off, if your going to do anything you HAVE to quit pot. i have plenty of studies about its effects on anxiety. people who smoke long term develop GABA tolerace. When they stop using, your bodies GABA system isnt working properly and you get an influx if dopamine (bad for anxiety) and glutamate (again bad for anxiety). It takes a month before anxiety symptoms reach their peak so thats why you have to stop using for good. good for you stoping opiates now quit them all together for good. Opiates destroy branching in the pleasure center of the brain so the more you use the more your setting yourself up for failure. Swim quit opiates and found it is terribly hard. swim was using a ton of morphine a day along with poppy plant.
It has been a long time for you getting high. it sounds like your not afraid to admit that using the benzos is substitution. However, there is no magic pill to quitting. You can sit here and try and convince us that you "just want something to take the edge off" but we dont care no offense (im arguing respectfully youll see). are you trying to full us or yourself? The best medicines for you right now are buspirone (best option available to you trust me), paxil ( this is the most effective medicine of the ssri family for anxiety without any of the anxiety side effects, youll just have to run to offset the chance of gaining weight. if you find side effects of SSRI too bad to handle, maybe its because your anxiety wasnt bad enough in the first place or else you would be willing to deal because they take about 6-8 weeks to get an effect so you should commit for 4 months). Your last option is Kava. Kava has a benzodiazapine like effect but it isnt addictive. Its not going to get you totally fucked up like xanax is, it will honestly just help with sleep and take the edge off. Kava pills work just as good with panic attacks. I should know i did extensive research on kava and im doing studies on it as we speak.

But honestly, benzos are not your answer. and you HAVE to quit everything. if opiates were a problem before, then they will be again because you feel like your anxiety is terrible. Maybe one day a long time from now you could use again( i dont agree with this but im not god). so take that day by day and at least stay clean for in the years range. Pot too. Get kava to help you quit that. That is your biggest obstacle since it fundamentally changed your brain to be more anxious. Thats where Buspirone would be the most helpful. It effects certain subgroups of dopamine receptors as well as serotonin but its nothing like an SSRI. swim used for months and found much relief. However, in the immediate, buy kava and quit stuff. good luck. dont make up any excuses. if you think you have a problem with anxiety now and you thought you had a drug problem, if you dont take care of it now it will always haunt you and the same cycle will keep happening. you dont want that bud!

[blackdb1]

Swim is going to have to give all this some serious consideration. Swilittlebare I see what you are saying about quitting everything but doesn't think he can handle everyday without saomething to make him feel like hes not crazy. Swim will most likely go see his psych and try something like buspirone. If it honestly works then he will cessate drug use all together, and hopefully things will get better from there. If the buspar doesn't work he doesn't know where to go from there other than benzodiazepines because he has tried many different anti-depressants and no success. He's tried ssri's, bupropion, tricyclics, etc. Swims definately got a rough road ahead of him.

[scumpunk91]

kava DOES stop anxiety, for maybe 20 fucking minutes... then the anxiety comes back.

[scumpunk91]

i have general anxiety disorder, and it's a bitch. it prevents you from feeling "in-control" of your life, and completely fucks your relationships when it comes to meeting new people.

last year, as a highschool freshmen, my life was hell. i couldn't even walk down a hallway without having a panic attack. luckily, i decided to seek help, and was prescribed Xanax XR a few months ago. i now have higher self-esteem, and have established many positive relationships with new people.

and by the way, it lasts about 12 hours (and is in your system for 24) so you only have to take it once a day, unless you're like me and have anxiety-related insomnia (then take it an hour before your bed time). the fact that it's in your system for such a long time is what separates it from other benzos. since the average benzo lasts about 3 hours, you have to constantly pop them in order to feel anxiety-free (hence the addictive nature)

if you're seeking an end to your anxiety (and not the boring/pointless downer euphoria), then i'd highly recommend Xanax XR

[imyourlittlebare]

Originally Posted by blackdb1

Swim is going to have to give all this some serious consideration. Swilittlebare I see what you are saying about quitting everything but doesn't think he can handle everyday without saomething to make him feel like hes not crazy. Swim will most likely go see his psych and try something like buspirone. If it honestly works then he will cessate drug use all together, and hopefully things will get better from there. If the buspar doesn't work he doesn't know where to go from there other than benzodiazepines because he has tried many different anti-depressants and no success. He's tried ssri's, bupropion, tricyclics, etc. Swims definately got a rough road ahead of him.

Oh swim knows. I am 20 and my pet monkey is in the same boat. same exact boat. He used at 15. Addicted to opiates for most of it. Smoked pot 2 years and quit and used buspirone to get over cripling anxiety that pot left swim with. opiates were very hard. Swim uses suboxone. Doesnt make it much easier buspirone and kava are the only life savers.

Originally Posted by scumpunk91

i have general anxiety disorder, and it's a bitch. it prevents you from feeling "in-control" of your life, and completely fucks your relationships when it comes to meeting new people.

Originally Posted by scumpunk91

last year, as a highschool freshmen, my life was hell. i couldn't even walk down a hallway without having a panic attack. luckily, i decided to seek help, and was prescribed Xanax XR a few months ago. i now have higher self-esteem, and have established many positive relationships with new people.

and by the way, it lasts about 12 hours (and is in your system for 24) so you only have to take it once a day, unless you're like me and have anxiety-related insomnia (then take it an hour before your bed time). the fact that it's in your system for such a long time is what separates it from other benzos. since the average benzo lasts about 3 hours, you have to constantly pop them in order to feel anxiety-free (hence the addictive nature)

if you're seeking an end to your anxiety (and not the boring/pointless downer euphoria), then i'd highly recommend Xanax XR

Swim has generalized anxiety disorder as well. And has a bachelors in neuroscience and Psychology. The thing with using benzodiazapines is you NEVER get over your fear. Its a well known fact that benzodiazapines effect memory consolidation and may cause antergrade amnesia while on or possibly state dependent learning. The way you get over anxiety is facing fears and learning to control them and that a situation is not as dangerous or risky as one perceives (example: your afraid of parties for several reasons including risk of ridicule, not knowing anyone, or being left alone. if you talk at a party and people find you funny and laugh and reinforce you, your going to find parties less threatening and be more inclined to go next time). If your on xanax, especially extended release, your not dealing with anxiety. I know it can be cripling. However, the proof that my way is best is in literature. exposure therapy works very very well. Most people get over their fears through this technique. you are exposed slowly to the thing that you are frightened of (lets use example of spider phobia. first do assessment of what is the scariest situation with spiders you could be in and for this one lets say holding a big taratula. First you look at pictures of spiders, then you are in the room with plastic spider. then hold it. watch movie of spiders. in room with tiny spider, then hold. This is repeated with different spiders until you finally hold the tarantula. This method extinguishes the fear and you are no longer a slave to the anxiety. With xanax, this would not be possible. in essence, going through life and seeing a behavior therapist is the BEST option, but not the easiest. It is the most guarenteed to get you results. and best of all you wont get addicted to your behavior therapist. Whereas benzodiazapine addiction is the worst addiction. Opiates are severe physical and unbearable mental, while benzos can have a deadly physical addiction and your anxiety is worse than it was before you started.

i am a specialist on Kava. I have done extended research on it. As for your comment on Kava, your comment is only the case because you sound like you have been using benzodiazapines, and strong ones, for a while so your tolerance is up. Kava for someone whos GABA system is closer to normal works. And it esp works for someone who is Anxious because there GABA system appears to be working less so any help feels great. Kava is non addictive which is great. It lasts in your system about 9 hours so although its not exherting a mental effect for that long, it keeps your physical body in control. It relieves stress greatly. It worked for swim. It doesnt get you high like xanax nor is it addictive, but it does relieve anxiety. It is found in studies to be just as effective as buspirone and valium in relieving anxiety. However, the way these studies are flawed is they had no benzo dependent people in it. it doesnt relieve a significant amount of anxiety in patients who have a history of benzo abuse. However, since you and swim are in the same boat guy with anxiety and opiate problem, it will work for you. it worked well for swim.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Benzodiazepines help general anxiety in the short term. But in the long term will cause the most severe physical dependence. It is a short term soloution to a long term problem.

If SWIY does use benzo's be careful, if he does get a prescription (or buy illicitly) be sure to taper the dose properly. I would post a slow withdrawal schedule but unfortunately the link contains a forum so is not allowed. If SWIY does experience any withdrawal symptoms then do a google search for 'Ashton Manual'. It will be easily found. It contains just about everything one needs to know about benzodiazepines, and how to withdraw properly.

If SWIY does decide to take this class of drugs for his anxiety then be VERY careful. They are not to be taken in the long term. Physical dependence can develop in as little as 2 weeks. Sorry for going a little off topic. I know benzo's work miracles for anxiety problems, but they can have very negative side effects.

[GreatWonder]

Originally Posted by imyourlittlebare

The thing with using benzodiazapines is you NEVER get over your fear.

That may be the case in a lot of experiences, but benzodiazepines (Alprazolam in particular) HAS helped SWIG get over his fears. This was partly achieved in the way SWIY explained, but would never have occured without the benzodiazepine use.

SWIG could not face any social situations. Work meetings, parties, walking in to a bar, public transport..... list goes on. SWIG used Alprazolam sparingly to tolerate these environments and learned, while under the influence of said benzodiazepine, that SWIG's fears were empty ones.

The result of this careful low dose use is that SWIG is now pretty much anxiety free in these situations. It's through the 'learned' method backed up with benzos.

SWIG will still take low doses in new environments (example, SWIG flew for the first time this October), but the odd time SWIG takes them now tends to be as a sleep-aid.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good comment, go steady on the benzos!

[imyourlittlebare]

Yes that is a good way of doing it. What the one guy suggested is taking the meds every day. And since the starter of the thread is already a self admitted drug addict, issues with use would be very real. so thats why i think kava and buspirone are the safest bet to actually decrease anxiety and prevent any new addictions from forming such as fear avoidence and benzo addiction. do you know what i mean?

[blackdb1]

Swim appreciates everyones help! This is a really hard time for swim. He especially thanks swilittlebare! He knows his use of opiates and other drugs are way past recreational use. He has always used another drug as a crutch to keep him clean off of opiates, but this has gotten him nowhere! He's mainly worried about 2 things with quitting. First even while on substances swim has a very hard time sleeping, this just aggrivates him to death! The second thing is he has HORRIBLE mood swings when he doesn't have anything to take, he knows this is something he has to learn to control mentally but it gets so bad he loses his train of thought and all his inhibitions fly out the window. This worries him because he doesn't want to do something stupid in rage and get himself in trouble, etc. His old psychiatrists office closed swims file and can't reopen it for some reason? So now he is going to try and find a good psych to see. This just made swim wonder if a new psych would be able to see swims medical history from his last psych? It MIGHT be a better thing if they can't see it because 4 years ago swims mom found out he had taken a LOT of DXM and other drugs and took him to his psychiatrist and told him about swims drug abuse trying to get him to find the underlying reason of swims drug use. Swim

[spacelord]

Originally Posted by blackdb1

So now he is going to try and find a good psych to see. This just made swim wonder if a new psych would be able to see swims medical history from his last psych? It MIGHT be a better thing if they can't see it because 4 years ago swims mom found out he had taken a LOT of DXM and other drugs and took him to his psychiatrist and told him about swims drug abuse trying to get him to find the underlying reason of swims drug use. Swim

It depends on the laws of the specific country where SWIY is gonna see a shrink. Searching on the net should reveal that kind of information.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Where I come from, when one changes doctors, be it a physician or psychiatrist, it takes a week or two for the medical records to come through.

[Codehead]

Originally Posted by fnord

panic attacks = need for benzos if they interfere with ones normal social life.

for a non addictive alternative try kava or valerian etc.or try buspar(SP?)

I have Xanax prescription even that I don't have panic attacks and my anxiety really isn't interfering with my normal social life. But they still make my living better, its little boost to your life I'm taking breaks for one week from alprazolam in every two weeks. So it really isn't that big problem for me. It has made my life better, not worse. I love 'em.

[imyourlittlebare]

Originally Posted by Codehead

I have Xanax prescription even that I don't have panic attacks and my anxiety really isn't interfering with my normal social life. But they still make my living better, its little boost to your life I'm taking breaks for one week from alprazolam in every two weeks. So it really isn't that big problem for me. It has made my life better, not worse. I love 'em.

well are you implying that its your way to relax? and that its euphoric perhaps and enjoyable?

If one doesnt need them, then one shouldnt use them. They are then just using for recreation value (recreational=not need a drug, just using it to make things more fun, more "bearable", or someones way of relaxing from normal days stress. the key to this is using a medicine thats intended for those whos lives have been significantly impaired by anxiety and their anxiety is a constant problem for them) They are an old way of dealing with anxiety and weve becoming better at treating anxiety using other non addictive measures. However, i believe that depending on how frequent the use is, the less your actually facing your anxieties and they get worse. If you use everyday for two week and then stop for one week . Is it because swim is addicted psychologically?

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by imyourlittlebare

well are you implying that its your way to relax? and that its euphoric perhaps and enjoyable?

If one doesnt need them, then one shouldnt use them.

Alot of people use benzodiazepines recreationally. I don't see the problem with it. If SWICH wants to use them to relax at the end of a hard days work, or whatever other situation then it is his decision.

[imyourlittlebare]

I dont care what people do in their spare time, however, for the sake of this thread one should be careful in the advice one gives. Its not the best advice to another human being who obviously cares about getting over addiction to use benzos recreationally. And its bad advoce to be the one to tell this kid its ok to use recreationally. He hasnt even been fully clean off other drugs yet even though he has a desire to stop using so why would anyone suggest another addictive one in the mix? Its just not right.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Recreational drug use is where the low risks are. Dependency and first experimental drug use is where the high risks are.

I don't dispute the addictivness of benzodiazepines. SWIM has a prescription. I don't see what is 'scummy' about saying recreational drug use is ok. On top of this, this 'kid' is has a prescription for Alprazolam.

[imyourlittlebare]

What? What does that have to do with this kid asking if he medically needs benzos?

[imyourlittlebare]

Ill be back in the morning. But the main point im making is this guy ( i keep saying kid like im older, im not) isnt looking for another recreational drug to use. Nor does he need something addictive medically when there are other options. So its pointless to argue in his behalf about the low dependency risk. Because why tempt and risk himself if he doesnt want that in the first place? you know? He wants to avoid any risk of dependency and addiction again you can tell from the melancholy of his typed words if that makes sense. He hated addiction and doesnt want to do it again. So he shouldnt risk it again.