Opium-like Tar from Pap. Som. Seeds?

[TheBlackPope]

Extracting alkaloids from Papaver Somniferum seeds:

Wash in acetone, filter the acetone, evaporate the filtrate, and bam alkaloid like tars.

A more advanced method would be to add hcl or citric acid, filter, evap filtrate, add acetone, evaporate, and bam alkaloidal tar extract.

Does anyone know the soluability of morphine base and salts?

[samuraigecko]

Acetone is carcinogenic and leaves residues, cannot be cleanly evaporated out (nor safely). Read THIS

Only water is needed to extract alkaloids or an alcohol if one is so inclined but water has proven to be the most effective, even the major alkaloid companies use water solutions to transport/keep/make/determine their crops. Farmers get paid on an alkaloid content basis and not on W/Ha.

"Alkloid like" ? Unsure what one means by that. An alkaloid is an alkaloid. P.Somniferum seeds do contain alkaloids, mostly trace amounts, but can be high in alkaloid content on occasion. This is usually encountered when the seeds are fresh and bought in bulk rather than prepackaged seeds from a supermarket etc.

Morphine base (depending on the type) is not water soluble.
Morphine salts (being a salt) is water soluble.
The most common Morphine base (being Calcium Morphinate) is achieved by precipitation of Morphine alkaloids from an opiate alkaloid solution at a pH of 9.1 using a calcite or calcate (usually lime) as the precipitant.
HCl or Citric acid can be used for extraction depending on the pH of the starting water to be used for the opiate alkaloid solution. Acids in the solution (making a pH of about 6.5) facilitate the solubility of alkaloids in said solution. Higher pH levels precipitate alkaloids out of the solution and into the precipitant.
Acetic acids can bind to the Morphine molecule under certain conditions with preparation to make DiacetylMorphine (Heroin).

Hope this has been of some help. Cheers.

[TheBlackPope]

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

Acetone is carcinogenic and leaves residues, cannot be cleanly evaporated out (nor safely). Read THIS

Only water is needed to extract alkaloids or an alcohol if one is so inclined but water has proven to be the most effective, even the major alkaloid companies use water solutions to transport/keep/make/determine their crops. Farmers get paid on an alkaloid content basis and not on W/Ha.

"Alkloid like" ? Unsure what one means by that. An alkaloid is an alkaloid. P.Somniferum seeds do contain alkaloids, mostly trace amounts, but can be high in alkaloid content on occasion. This is usually encountered when the seeds are fresh and bought in bulk rather than prepackaged seeds from a supermarket etc.

Morphine base (depending on the type) is not water soluble.
Morphine salts (being a salt) is water soluble.
The most common Morphine base (being Calcium Morphinate) is achieved by precipitation of Morphine alkaloids from an opiate alkaloid solution at a pH of 9.1 using a calcite or calcate (usually lime) as the precipitant.
HCl or Citric acid can be used for extraction depending on the pH of the starting water to be used for the opiate alkaloid solution. Acids in the solution (making a pH of about 6.5) facilitate the solubility of alkaloids in said solution. Higher pH levels precipitate alkaloids out of the solution and into the precipitant.
Acetic acids can bind to the Morphine molecule under certain conditions with preparation to make DiacetylMorphine (Heroin).

Hope this has been of some help. Cheers.

Salvia Divinorum extracts are from acetone, so I don't care

You are saying that the best pull would be a h20 pull, but then you said morphine base (which I'm assuming is what is in the seeds) are not h20 soluable, so this wouldnt work?

Is mohpine soluable in acetone?

[samuraigecko]

The extraction and basification are two separate things.

The Morphine alkaloid on its own is a water soluble alkaloid.

Morphine Base (Calcium Morphinate) is not water soluble. (This must be made from the Morphine alkaloid)

Morphine Salt (Morphine Sulphate or Sodium Morphinate? Citation needed.) is water soluble.

All one needs to do any extraction from seeds or other raw Papaver Somniferum material is water. Some prefer to use a clean burning alcohol.

Salvia Divinorum extracts are more safely done with alcohols also. Acetone is bad for preparations which are to be ingested in any way, but that comes down to ones own personal preference and One is not going to judge anyone for using that method if they so wish. One will suggest that it is a VERY bad idea health wise though, this is common sense.

Hope this has been of help

[TheBlackPope]

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

The extraction and basification are two separate things.

The Morphine alkaloid on its own is a water soluble alkaloid.

Morphine Base (Calcium Morphinate) is not water soluble. (This must be made from the Morphine alkaloid)

Morphine Salt (Morphine Sulphate or Sodium Morphinate? Citation needed.) is water soluble.

All one needs to do any extraction from seeds or other raw Papaver Somniferum material is water. Some prefer to use a clean burning alcohol.

Salvia Divinorum extracts are more safely done with alcohols also. Acetone is bad for preparations which are to be ingested in any way, but that comes down to ones own personal preference and One is not going to judge anyone for using that method if they so wish. One will suggest that it is a VERY bad idea health wise though, this is common sense.

Hope this has been of help

This has been very helpful, I did not know some of those things.

I was under the impression the the drug in the seeds/poppies were the base form of morphine..

Ok, I don't like evaporating water, so can I do a 99% IsoPropyl Alcohol wash? Are morphine/like alkaloids soluable in IPA? Is plant matter not readily soluable in IPA?

What about the salt form of morphine (morphine HCl, morphine citrate, etc), is that soluable in IPA?

Thanks alot.


[edit] I believe the majority of salvia divinorum vendors use acetone as the primary solvent. This reasoning comes from personal emails I have had w/ several "popular" vendors.
[/edit]

[samuraigecko]

OOOps forgot to address one of your questions.

No, Morphine Base is not what is in the seeds. The seeds do not contain Calcium Morphinate.

The seeds contain many Opiate Alkaloids, one of which is the Morphine Alkaloid. Others are the Codeine/Papaverine/Thebaine/etc in Opiate Alkaloid Form, All of which require conversion to be in a "base" form.

Hope this has been of help, cheers.

[TheBlackPope]

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

OOOps forgot to address one of your questions.

No, Morphine Base is not what is in the seeds. The seeds do not contain Calcium Morphinate.

The seeds contain many Opiate Alkaloids, one of which is the Morphine Alkaloid. Others are the Codeine/Papaverine/Thebaine/etc in Opiate Alkaloid Form, All of which require conversion to be in a "base" form.

Hope this has been of help, cheers.

Before use occurs, the alkaliods have to be based? Couldn't they be smoked as is? (the tar)

[samuraigecko]

An isopropyl alcohol extraction is fine if that is what SWIY wishes to do (SWIY should refrain from incriminating him/her self) Most people do not do this only because alkaloids are so easily water soluble and they get water free from their tap. All morphine salts or "salts of morphine" are both water and alcohol soluble.

Morphine is basified in roughly the following way.

1: Opium is extracted from the poppies either by CPS or traditionally bleeding the latex then dissolved into a water solution usually of around 10x W/V.
2: pH is adjusted to 9.1 and calcium carbonate or lime calcate is used for precipitation of morphine from the solution.
3: precipitate is removed and pressed into bricks for sale as "raw morphine base".
4: This is then bought by various traders and usually converted to heroin via acetylation using acetic andrahyde.
5: product is "jumped on" many times and reaches the veins of customer sometime later at a potency % of far less than what it was.

Both calcium carbonate and lime calcate only bond to the morphine alkaloid in the solution at pH 9.1 although some codeine taint has been documented which seems to indicate that codeine perhaps precipitates in similar conditions (confirmation needed?).

The other question, Yes. It can be smoked as is. One may want to have a look at the "flake or cooked opium" thread for more information on opium for that specific purpose.

Hope this has been of help. cheers.

[TheBlackPope]

Thanks man. Do you know why arabs make based morphine instead of salted morphine?

[samuraigecko]

It isn't peoples of middle eastern decent whom make blocks of Morphine base. Most traditional Opium producing areas usually make big bricks of Opium which are then sold to another buyer whom converts it to bricks of Morphine base. The main reason for this is ease one thinks. Making Morphine Sulphate is just as complicated a procedure as acetylation to create DiacetylMorphine (Heroin). Precipitation of Morphine into the base form is a rather easy procedure and makes the bulk of the original opium much smaller (and therefor easier to conceal/hide/transport/etc). Morphine base is also rather odorless when compared to a big brick of acrid smelling raw opium.

Basically, Morphine needs to be precipitated out of an opium solution before it can be converted into a salt or acetylated into heroin, Thus the need for the "raw morphine base".

Hope this has been of some help.

[TheBlackPope]

Ohhh so you have to base it before you can salt it?

Adding HCl wont cut it?

[samuraigecko]

HCL wont cut it because at first there is nothing to cut. Before being separated into a base the Morphine is in raw alkaloid form either in the opium gum or CPS solution.

Here is a quick overview to help One understand a bit better.

Opiate Alkaloids: Raw opiate molecules in alkaloid form before being processed. Bases and salts in an opiates are not naturally occurring - it has to be processed. Examples are: Narcotine, Papaverine, Thebaine, Codeine, Morphine, etc. The list is many. When Codeine or Morphine is mentioned in this form it does not automatically mean Morphine Sulphate, Codeine Phosphate or any other pharmaceutical grade processed opioid.

Opium gum: The raw latex bled from a pod by incision.

CPS: Concentrated Poppy Straw, the powdered plant material from the top of the pod to 10cm down the stem. All other parts of the Papaver Somniferum plant have a negligible (if any) alkaloid content. CPS can also refer to a water based solution which is made from dried poppy straw, this is common in the opiate farming industry.

Precipitant: In this case refers to something which is used to bond to a specific compound or molecular presence in a solution, Thus removing said compound from the said solution and creating a "base". (Base Compound).

Base: The form of the molecular presence in a basified form. In this case it would be Calcium Morphinate.

Acetylation: A process used to convert Calcium Morphinate into DiacetylMorphine. Di (Two) Acetyl (Acetylene chains) Morphine (in the Morphine Molecule). This is done from a Morphine base with the use of acetic acid or andrahyde (most commonly the later). The result being Heroin (DiacetylMorphine).

Morphine Sulphate: Pharmaceutical companies produce a salt from the morphine base using either a sulphate or a hydrochloride. The reason for this is that Morphine base is almost totally non-water soluble (therefor not suitable for medicinal injection). In 5 liters of water only 1 gram of base will dissolve, Whereas a salt conversion will make the compound 300x more water soluble. Since the salts derive from a strong acid but weak base, they are both at about pH = 5; consequently, the morphine salts are mixed with small amounts of NaOH to make them suitable for injection.

Hope this has been of some help. If more information is needed one may want to look in the opiate chemistry section HERE

Alternatively one may try to use the forum search engine, this is also very helpful. Cheers.

[infekt]

Would one be able to IV the Calcium Morphinate?

[samuraigecko]

No.

Calcium Morphinate (as is stated) is not water soluble and therefor not injectable. It is a base ONLY and is used as a starting point for either Morphine sulphate or DiacetylMorphine (Heroin).

[Nucking Futs]

Agreed !

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

No.

Calcium Morphinate (as is stated) is not water soluble and therefor not injectable. It is a base ONLY and is used as a starting point for either Morphine sulphate or DiacetylMorphine (Heroin).

[apa]

So you use lime and not Ammonium cloride to form a percipitant? SWIM thought the lime just cleaned up the solution by making some of the impurities not soluble in cold water. One would then filter the solution and reheat the morphine/codine solution. Then add Ammonium cloride to form the percipitant(Morphine base)??????

[apa]

SWIM actually did a grain alcohol extraction with 100 grams of seeds. He ended up with around 13 grams of brown oily/gritty chunks. He was wanting to see if morphine base could be extracted from them, but never got around to the final process, he hasn't went out and found some ammonium cloride yet.

If Ammonium chloride is not needed then he is set to go, and will keep you all informed.

[samuraigecko]

To extract Morphine from it and then basify the morphine read above and in the chemistry section, no ammonium chloride is necessary.

Acids are used in extraction to facilitate the extraction of the alkaloids (using certain acids can convert certain alkaloids to a more active form also while doing this extraction).

One can then proceed to convert the base to a salt rather easily. All of the information is either above or in the opiate / opioid chem section.

Hope this has been of help.