How to re-create the MDMA experience

[cadillac555]

I'm sure if any of SWIY have observed that SWIM has been obsessed with re-creating the mdma experience for over a year now, due to the fact that that MDMA is non-existent in his area. He has sought out advice from countless members with endless questions during his quest and after much research, experimenting, continued exploration, until swim was blue in the face, he believes he finally has his answer. Unless you have been with swim 24/7 swiy would probably not even believe the extent of swims effort, hard work, and dedication that went into the finding of this information. Not to mention the emotional stress that comes though dealing with repetitive trial and error, and hitting numerous speedsumps and stop signs along the journey.
Basically what swim is trying to say, is that he put a ridiculus amount of himself into these "oh so simple" sounding discoveries, and believes it is only fair that he asks for those who read this to simply understand that this valuable information, while now free and readily accessible to all members, was the result of sacrifices and hard work.
Most of swiy have probably heard that old saying : "if you want to make an omlet, you've gotta break some eggs" Well, many an egg was broken to make this knowledge conveniently and freely available.
Swim is not looking for someone to kiss his ass, but thats not to say he does'nt welcome a pat on the back from time to time like everyone else.
Everyone enjoys being rewarded for thier efforts. SWIM personally believes in supporting each other in this way, but also respects the fact that not everyone is going to have the same morals and values as SWIM.
So all he is going to ask for, is something that seems like a more than fair request, and that is : Please just remember that everything in life that is truly worthwhile always comes at a price, even if you were'nt the one who had to pay the toll, the information you learn from a mere click of your mouse has true value because it was the result of someones hard work.
Please just remember that before SWIY flames or criticizes. SWIM is on the same team as SWIY and is sharing his information because he acknowledges the efforts of the members who helped him on his journey have true value as well.

Without further BS :

Here is Part 1, ( there will be as many parts as necissary in order to satisfy as many questions as possible to get the most out of this research. PLEASE, I ENCOURAGE SWIY TO ASK QUESTIONS as I want to share as much information as possible.


Basic Theory for Project : MDMA effects are acheived by the increased release and binding of the Neurotransmitters, Serotonin, Dopamine, and Nor-pinephrine.

Initial Game Plan : Many chemical "cousins" exist to MDMA, but as no two substances are alike, they lack in some areas, and deliver in others, with varying side effects ranging from mild to very dangerous and unpleasant.
The ones closest resembling MDMA are just as hard to get and illegal for SWIM so that ruled out MDMA's "BROTHERS" MDA and MDEA as canidates.

The first half of SWIM's research was to be in vain, for of trying to find that lost substance that does the COMPLETE job of MDMA, but is possibly legal or in that grey area, and easier to obtain because of MDMA's non-existent market where I live. However after a long 6 months of stubborn research, expirements and train wrecks, SWIM concluded that stuff only exists in dreams.

So, a little after half time, about 6-7 months in, The Epiphany Finally hit that the only way to what SWIM dreampt about was through more than 1 substance. Which meant at a minimum, twice the work, maybe even 3 times the work if trying to find a representitive for all three Neurotransmitters.
This had turned out to be much more complicated than SWIM thought. SWIM was dreaming he would do a little googling, and discover a unappreciated, new gem which would be the answer to all his dreams.
But seeing as 6 months were wasted on the wrong approach, maybe things would come quicker with the right approach. And that was SWIMs motivation to get up and basically START OVER.

The most common and widely used RC from SWIMs earlier research was methylone. Which did have great dopamine simarities, but was totally lacking in serotonin activity. And being a cathinone, was subject to extreme side effects, especially at typical "effective" doses on the comedown, and the desire to re-dose, which leads to even more harmful side effects. All the while something vital is still missing.
However, its effect on dopamine was very authentic, so this one was not ruled out, and was made into the poster chemical for dopamine activity for which all new applicants would be compared to in the future as it had a higher potential of mimicking the dopamine surge of real MDMA than anything else SWIM had ever expirement with.

With Methylones ability to reproduce the dopamine end of the spectrum so well, SWIM figured that the other beta-ketones might provide some valuable properties. But SWIM discovered, that being even farther from MDMA chemically seemed to make them even less useful than Methylone and they all had the same nasty cathinone analog side effects, some to an even worse extent. SWIM quickly learned that he was venturing farther away from his goal, and began to realize it was time to look elsewhere. as he was going to get the most desired effects by not traveling too far Chemically from the thing he was trying to replicate. It was common sense right ???? Well, SWIM has been around long enough to find that common sense is not enough, and chems do not always play by our rules.

After a few nights of over exertion and sleep deprivation, Swim suddenly realized that he would have to be open and accept the idea that his solution might catch him completely by suprise, or make a fool of him because it was under his nose the whole time, because he did not want his pride to get in the way of his goal. After a quick but honest re-evaluation, swim decided to keep his eyes on the prize and not be so concerned with how he got to his dream, but that he simply got there, and if all that other stuff that clouded his mind was still there when the smoke cleared, then he will face it just as he chose to face this challenge, with his "eyes on the prize" If SWIMS mind was in the right place, how could he fail ??? And being a collector of bits and peices of truth from all over the universe, SWIM accepted that
even if he never got his magic solution, if he remembered the things he learned, he would come from this project a better understanding, more mature, realistic, and even a wiser person. Now that does'nt sound too bad at all does it ?????

So, with a new found passion, and a fearless approach, he figured, back to business and put this new found motivation to use.
SO, now that since he at least had something to compare the effects on other substances dopamine action to ( methylone ) he should have something to compare and evaluate all serotonin activity to in order for this system to work for him.
Many questions, research and emails later, swim elected MBDB to be the best canidate. And SWIM must admit, that because MBDB also showed action on the nor-ephinephrine side of things, he was very anxious to sample a cocktail of the two, but, nothing was known about the combo, and SWIM was reluctant to be the first to discover a new and quite deadly synergy.
So, up on the board it went, as a representative of MDMA's serotonin ( and secretly thinking occasionally ) nor-epinephrine. With, of course, a mental note about the combos potential.

The first and last substances elected to represent nor-epinephrine
1) caffeine and 2 ) ephedrine. Ephedrine, getting harder and harder to get, more tightly regulated, expensive, and the dangers of recreational dosage levels meant it was'nt right for the job. And was waaay too much with methylone, to which no other chem had proved superior in its class to date.

Caffeine, while much safer, also affected the Dopamine side of things, but to a lesser extent than SWIMS base chem for that category : Methylone. But this was a competition for nor-epheniphrine, not Dopamine.
The problem lied in its potential for negative and positive synergies. It was a wildcard. And although there were uses the caffeine would be good for, it's presence would dull Methylones ability to do its job by allowing less Methylone to be used simultaneously if caffeine was added.

This is due to the fact that they are both stimulants that cause side effects on the same area of the body. The higher the dose on either, the more side effects are produced. So which would be more valuable to SWIMS cause ???? Obviously the Methylone had the closest re-creation of MDMA's dopamine action, but caffeine is unique in that, it produces other effects than just stimulation, like muscle relaxation, the dialation of blood vessels ( both very valuable effects in SWIMS opinion ), and works in a different way than Methylone to increase dopamine levels. It blocks the re-uptake instead of stimulating the resease of dopamine, which is Methylones main effect on dopamine in the brain ( although, known evidence suggests that Methylone has an effect on the re-uptake of dopamine, just to a lesser extent.
On a completely different but relevant not, SWIM was fortunate enough to have sampled MBDB prior to being faced with this decision, and he learned of its different, but also still present and similar effects on nor-epinephrine, and
made a case for MBDB as the poster chem for 2 of 3 neurotransmitters in this project.
So, instead of adding a 3rd substance to the project, MBDB was used again as a basis to compare all other chems in the same category to, while caffeine was put to the side, but kept, as there were strong indications it might prove useful at a later time.

SWIM began to think to himself, is it any wonder MBDB is the poster-chem for 2/3 of the 3 parts of this profect ??? No. Out of all the ketone cousin chems considered here, bk-mdma / methylone, bk-mde / ethylone, bk-mbdb / butylone, ect. MBDB is the closest "cousin" if not "little brother" to genuine MDMA.

The only thing closer would be MDMA's true brothers MDE and MDA.

Swim began to research MBDB as much as he could, as the reports of dysphoria confused him. He always felt a very similar, but weak Euphoria from MBDB. What really stood out about MBDB was the social and tactile sensations. They were so similar, but the euphoria was ridiculusly mild.

SWIM thought that this was due to the absence of Dopamine, a widely believed fact about MBDB, so SWIM finally elected to do what had been in the back of his mind for months. Try MBDB and Methylone together.

Swims first experience of 100mg of each, told him once thing right away - he was on the right track. It was the closest experience yet, and so SWIM elected a higher dosage of 125mg of each. This was Good, but SWIM thinks for dopamine only purposes, and for this combo, 100mg is the limit for the Methylone before strong side effects occur.
Tests were done using methylone + MBDB at a 1.25:1 ratio, 1 being methylone which was always a steady dose of 100mg on every experiment.
So a ratio of 1.25:1 would have 125mg MBDB + 100mg Methylone.

Swim continued to try different ratios of the combo 1.5:1, 1.75:1, 2:1, and 2.25 to one. After these different ratios were all used, all subjects unanimously agreed that the 2:1 ratio worked best, and most felt any more MBDB and it was not as euphoric and more like plain MBDB.

On an extyended 2:1 ratio test, 150mg MBDB / 75mg Methylone was used for anyone 150lbs or less.
and
200mg MBDB + 100MG Methylone for Anyone over 180lbs or more
Subjects who weighed in between were allowed to choose which dose they would take.


Anyways, I'll finish the rest later, very tired. Take care everyone

Reputation Comments on this post:

	very interesting post
	Good and detailed post.
	Alot of effort taken, wish i had noticed this earlier, love the technical approach and ratio dose testing, please expand...

[Broshious]

How is the duration on this combo?

[returntozero]

thats a lot of text for one reply

why doesnt swiy just go find some real ecstacy?

Reputation Comments on this post:

adds nothing

[KBLSD]

be social and find real X instead of spending all this time researching this bullshit

Reputation Comments on this post:

adds nothing

[Mona Lisa]

SWIM and many others have reported to have found combining mephedrone with methylone quite similar to MDMA (150-200mg Methylone followed by 200mg mephedrone about an hour later). The latter can also be bumped up a couple hours later for an extende experience

[Junket]

Originally Posted by KBLSD

be social and find real X instead of spending all this time researching this bullshit

i LOL'ed.


anyways..........

yea man get some real ecstasy.

i didnt read any of your post, im sorry.

you cant recreate god knighting you into heaven with a sword of bliss

AKA

poppin thizzzzzz mayneeee

[geezaman]

Jeeze this threads been dead some time, if it was a human i think the body snatchers would have left it be... However Snuffkin (here to represent that someone who is not geezaman) is glad it has been revived as it is very interesting.

Snuffkin scan read it but will read it fully later. Snuffkin would not advise anyone do drugs but reports (in the mephedrone experience thread) that he found mephedrone surprisingly similar in its effect to ecstasy, and anyone wishing to recreate an E like effect may consider it a possible route.

Snuffkin is kind-of offended/pissed off by some of the earlier responses that in essence say "just get E."

This is DF, you are allowed to express thought out opinions here, even long ones, no one will give you strange looks or think your weird for posting something with with some substance/bollocks, KBLSD and returntozero's responses seem like an on topic version of "im high" or "smoke weed"

SWIM has thought up a few reasons why people may choose not to use ecstasy and be looking for alternatives (such as OP) that are legal/quasi-legal;

• Not breaking the law,

• Not wanting to risk the hassle involved if caught breaking the law,

• It seems recent reports show that in many areas the quality of E pills is REALLY bad.

• With an E pill you do not know what you are getting (a piperazine mix seems likely at the moment)

• People may just not have any contacts.

• People may live in an area where there is no drug scene (these do exist still especially in rural areas)
• People may be due to have drug tests, (i.e. for work or while on probation) and alternatives to ecstasy may not show up on these.

Apologies for the mini rant, if SWIcadillac555 still visits the forums perhaps they can finish the rest (if there is more), as Snuffkin at least has a genuine interest in this topic.

Peace
Geezaman

Reputation Comments on this post:

Mature, well thought out posts in this thread. Nicely done.

[Junket]

Originally Posted by geezaman

Snuffkin is kind-of offended/pissed off by some of the earlier responses that in essence say "just get E."

This is DF, you are allowed to express thought out opinions here

lol.. sounds contradicting.

only reason i say this is because, if you want to RECREATE sky diving, you aren't going to tell someone to jump off of a couch.

you can't recreate any drug........ its like you do it or you don't..

nobody on here should type out a HUGE ass post stating their beliefs and be instantly swayed by somebody briefly saying how they honestly feel haha

thats weak minded shit. you gotta take everything into consideration and form your opinions. thats what the drug world is all about.

[expertergaz]

Originally Posted by Junket

lol.. sounds contradicting.

only reason i say this is because, if you want to RECREATE sky diving, you aren't going to tell someone to jump off of a couch.

you can't recreate any drug........ its like you do it or you don't..

nobody on here should type out a HUGE ass post stating their beliefs and be instantly swayed by somebody briefly saying how they honestly feel haha

thats weak minded shit. you gotta take everything into consideration and form your opinions. thats what the drug world is all about.

i actualy went on a sky diving simulation thingy once it was well fun!
i asked sum1 who had been sky diving is it anything close to doing the real thing and they said it was no different lmao just thought i'd lighten the mood on this thread

[geezaman]

Originally Posted by expertergaz

i actually went on a sky diving simulation thingy once it was well fun! i asked sum1 who had been sky diving is it anything close to doing the real thing and they said it was no different lmao just thought i'd lighten the mood on this thread

Although every drug is indeed different parts of the experiences can be similar, being drunk on alcohol, and stoned on weed some people consider similar, in the same way talking LSD or taking mushrooms may both make SWIY see things.
Snuffkin has seen those skydiving simulators and always wondered. Its interesting to hear (apart from off the dude with the big machine trying to get $$$ out of you... unless expertergaz is such a dude...) that they are like the real thing.

Snuffkin would have agreed that the effects of ecstasy (especially its empathy qualities) could not be replicated, he was even more convinced of this after trying piperazine based "party pills" sold as similar to E and infact found to be completely different. BUT following Snuffkins experience of mephedrone, which is a similar drug to "methylone" and "butylone" that the OP writes about, Snuffkin believes that a mix of these chemicals could provide an experience indiscernible from actual ecstasy.

When Snuffkin read the OP and responses he just thought it was a bit shit that someone experimenting and trying new things, in a very useful way, got a majority of responses saying "just get ecstasy".

Anyhoo
Peace n love all
Geezaman

[Junket]

Originally Posted by geezaman

When Snuffkin read the OP and responses he just thought it was a bit shit that someone experimenting and trying new things, in a very useful way, got a majority of responses saying "just get ecstasy".

yea i know what you are saying completely...

i dont know, guess im just ...resistant towards people who want to live a certain way, or try a certain thing, but just beat around actually doing it because of fear or whatever it is.

my bad.. good post man

[geezaman]

Originally Posted by Junket

...i dont know, guess im just ...resistant towards people who want to live a certain way, or try a certain thing, but just beat around actually doing it because of fear or whatever it is....

Ahh, I see where SWIY is coming from now, when explained like that your opinion makes more sense.
Snuffkin has a number of friends who would agree with that view, but he does not agree with it himself, on the basis that said friends (some who have shown highly addictive personalities) held the same opinion with mainlining coke and heroin, except the H deal fell through so they couldn't. Snuffkin does not think coke or heroin are inherently bad, just the way people might choose to use them, and the shit it might (moreso than other drugs in his opinion) cause. Snuffkins pretty sure Junket will see where he is coming from.

Glad that all makes more sense now. Seems this threads got a bit derailed apol's to cadillac555.

Peace,
Geezaman

[Garethn]

hay geezman could you explain you findings in a much shorter way...? like did you actualy get any gwd results..? if so what did you use....?

[Junket]

Originally Posted by geezaman

Ahh, I see where SWIY is coming from now, when explained like that your opinion makes more sense.
Snuffkin has a number of friends who would agree with that view, but he does not agree with it himself, on the basis that said friends (some who have shown highly addictive personalities) held the same opinion with mainlining coke and heroin, except the H deal fell through so they couldn't. Snuffkin does not think coke or heroin are inherently bad, just the way people might choose to use them, and the shit it might (moreso than other drugs in his opinion) cause. Snuffkins pretty sure Junket will see where he is coming from.

Glad that all makes more sense now. Seems this threads got a bit derailed apol's to cadillac555.

Peace,
Geezaman

for sure..

i got you man. its all jesus

breakdowns of the thought behind opinions will help OP to make a decision

so i guess its helpful

but im out!

haha

[cadillac555]

Hello everyone !!! Sorry for the long time it took to finally post a reply on this, but some of the "Just get some real E" posts had SWIM a little frustrated, and thinking he might have picked the wrong place to share his works.

But now that this thread has taken off, and SWIM see's that there are some who are in his position also, he will jump back on the thread once again.

THIS IS IT - SWIM HAS FOUND HIS ANSWER !!

In the simplest of terms, SWIM has found that a cocktail of :

120mg Methylone
+
180mg BK-MBDB

= the most authentic E experience ever created that was not actual MDMA.

SWIM challenges anyone to try this combo at this dose level and ratio and see if they do not agree. If pill manufacturers started using this mix SWIM would not even complain. It was easily comparible to when SWIM used to be able to get 127mg MDMA smileys from his old Canadian friends.

VERY good stuff. Almost even superior in a way because of the extremely soft comedown. Only thing missing was some of the love, but rest assured, it was definitely still there !!! Body high was so strong at times SWIM could'nt even stand up during the peak !!!

SWIM WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE SOME FEEDBACK ON THIS COCKTAIL IF OTHERS HAVE ACCESS TO THESE CHEMS

Please feel free to PM me if you have any good "trip reports" you would'nt mind being used for reference in my study, or any other questions.

SWIM hopes that people are finding his work beneficial

[piuiher]

problem is that RC are what they are: RC. I would not trust too much in reapeted use since ther is not much human history for these chemicals, while MDMA is probably safer than aspirin if used the rigth way.

[cadillac555]

Also thanks to GEEZAMAN for a very thorough and much appreciated write up on the advantages of using an MDMA substitute. Without his feedback, swim might not have found the motivation to get back on the horse and start working again to finish his studies.

cadillac555 added 13 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by piuiher

problem is that RC are what they are: RC. I would not trust too much in reapeted use since ther is not much human history for these chemicals, while MDMA is probably safer than aspirin if used the rigth way.

Technically these are analogs of MDXX, and should not be in the same class as garbage like piperazines and other "research chemicals"

The quality of the 120mg Methylone / 180mg BK-MBDB experience is good enough IMO that it should not be in the same class as garbage like piperazines and other so called "research chemicals"

SWIM considers it to be his "MDMA 2.0"


Seriously, almost 100 of SWIMS friends have tried this, and 100% believed it was MDMA, and over HALF said it was the best roll they had had in a while. To this date, every one of them still believe they took actual MDMA.

[yaniczka]

hello and thanks for great post! SWIM wonders about the duration of the trip and also cross tolerance with real mdma (she can obtain it but dont want to loose magic so would like to take this m1 and butylone mix). thanks!