Experiences - extreme depression and LSD

[Pino]

Originally Posted by imyourlittlebare

Depression may be temporarily helped due to the influence LSD has on serotonin levels but for long term change, I think you may have to commit to some long term change rather than believing in a quick fix

But it isn't the only thing that changes. The changed alter perception can also give a different perspective on problems. (As with many psychedelics) Of course, this can be for the better or the worse. So going to a well trained psychologist won't hurt, swim thinks.

[KBLSD]

i think im fine now im just going to live my life,ill let swim experiment with all the psychedelics though cuz i dont want that shit eating up my brain

[merecat]

KBLSD SWIM feels you.... SWIM struggling with depression themself and desperately craving an LSD experience because SWIM believes (whether rightly or wrongly) that it will help SWIM work through a few things. Unfortunately the SNRI SWIM takes degrades psychedelic experiences to the point where it's not worth it.

[eltimmy]

Depression may be temporarily helped due to the influence LSD has on serotonin levels but for long term change, I think you may have to commit to some long term change rather than believing in a quick fix

I'm disappointed, bare.

The same way learning and LTP (ie. experience) can affect your mind - (changes axons, receptors, overall structure of the brain) - the same experiences can affect the individual (the psyche) negatively. Experience, most definitely, can cause changes to brain structure at the molecular level.

What we are discussing here is a change of state of mind, an understanding of your past, a vivid perception of yourself, how life can be, what life is, that we are eternal energy of the universe, etc. This is the great insight that psychedelics provide that selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors* typically do not. Now, can this insight lead to significant changes in a human's life - to the understanding that he does not have to occupy and exist in a state of anxiety and fear? Yes, of course.

And this has been proven to be successful many times. People have been cured of "schizophrenia" (whatever this disorder entails, no one can really define it and it seems to occupy anything and everything regarding human experience) through use of psychedelics. This is documented. Now, if you wish to use these substances to treat yourself without medical supervision or pharmaceutical assurance that what you are taking is actually what you are taking then that is your choice alone. But remain mindful that the pharmaceutical companies have no interest in curing you, but rather, treating you indefinitely.

* which perform barely better than placebo in clinical studies, btw. I consider MAOIs a far superior option.

[KBLSD]

Originally Posted by eltimmy

I'm disappointed, bare.

The same way learning and LTP (ie. experience) can affect your mind - (changes axons, receptors, overall structure of the brain) - the same experiences can affect the individual (the psyche) negatively. Experience, most definitely, can cause changes to brain structure at the molecular level.

What we are discussing here is a change of state of mind, an understanding of your past, a vivid perception of yourself, how life can be, what life is, that we are eternal energy of the universe, etc. This is the great insight that psychedelics provide that selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors* typically do not. Now, can this insight lead to significant changes in a human's life - to the understanding that he does not have to occupy and exist in a state of anxiety and fear? Yes, of course.

And this has been proven to be successful many times. People have been cured of "schizophrenia" (whatever this disorder entails, no one can really define it and it seems to occupy anything and everything regarding human experience) through use of psychedelics. This is documented. Now, if you wish to use these substances to treat yourself without medical supervision or pharmaceutical assurance that what you are taking is actually what you are taking then that is your choice alone. But remain mindful that the pharmaceutical companies have no interest in curing you, but rather, treating you indefinitely.

* which perform barely better than placebo in clinical studies, btw. I consider MAOIs a far superior option.

fuck that, those fucking anti-depressants they made swim fill empty and zombie like swim doesnt want to be stuck eating prozac everyday for the rest of his life to be happy, most people dont understand how psychedelics can really help you out they think you take them just to be fucked up, but if more people used them they would know the benefits they truly hold, swim doesnt do psychedelics a lot(probably 3 times a month at the max) but every once in awhile swim takes some mushroom. lsd, or mescaline and it brings him back down to earth and sees how life really is and how being sad just feels bad and you should live happy, that 8 hour experience is a mental marathon that can works ur brian and lets you gather all those thoughts and problems you lose in everyday life and it lets you figure out how to deal with them, but if you take psychedelics too much swim thinks it starts to ware down ur mind just like if you ran a marathon 3 or more times a week ur body would start to ware down, but every now and then you can eat some psychedelics and change your life positively or negatively you have to choose which way its gunna go

Reputation Comments on this post:

You've got a mighty fine spirit, boy

[imyourlittlebare]

The same way learning and LTP (ie. experience) can affect your mind - (changes axons, receptors, overall structure of the brain) - the same experiences can affect the individual (the psyche) negatively. Experience, most definitely, can cause changes to brain structure at the molecular level.

this is way different than what i was suggesting through morphine action. the changes with morphine requires ALOT of learning via environment and through brain exposure to it resulting in a complex chain of neurons that wire together to form what we so simply call addiction. You simplify my theory too much to condescend it when you had nothing else to say about it constructively. as for lsd, well, brain change that will happen will be minimal. if you consistantly take lsd, then you fundamentaly change how the brain works (the same way you would with morphine) and you may get a bit crazy (im talking if you used lsd the same way a morphine addict does)

What we are discussing here is a change of state of mind, an understanding of your past, a vivid perception of yourself, how life can be, what life is, that we are eternal energy of the universe, etc. This is the great insight that psychedelics provide that selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors* typically do not. Now, can this insight lead to significant changes in a human's life - to the understanding that he does not have to occupy and exist in a state of anxiety and fear? Yes, of course.

There are many people that have developed great self awareness and overcame depression without the use of LSD or other such drugs. While there is still a psuedo 4th force of psychology that uses this (the true 4th force being multiculturalism), a change in perception or mind may not lead to antidepressive resolution. Rather, im sure its the influx of serotonin in certain brain areas that causes reinforcement that causes antidepression in most of the less aware individuals. I do not, however, disagree that what your saying is impossible or doesnt happen. I just dont think it is as common as you imply


And this has been proven to be successful many times. People have been cured of "schizophrenia" (whatever this disorder entails, no one can really define it and it seems to occupy anything and everything regarding human experience) through use of psychedelics. This is documented. Now, if you wish to use these substances to treat yourself without medical supervision or pharmaceutical assurance that what you are taking is actually what you are taking then that is your choice alone. But remain mindful that the pharmaceutical companies have no interest in curing you, but rather, treating you indefinitely.

This has not been proven many times. There are therapies that use this to treat alot of this. However, this therapy does not work with alot of people and has largely been debunked. This isnt to say it doesnt work for some people though which i believe it does. However, my theory is they are a special breed of people here is a study of what i believe. I dont think they really mean you are addicted to hallucinogens. I just believe that through some sort of lack in your natural chemistry and biology, people who use this lack something fundemental that other people have. Some sort of biological process stuff. maybe it is life and meaning. Maybe it is a problem with the temporal lobe. Im not sure. Its too complex. However, its just weird how some people can love these things and others hate. BTW. Schizophrenia has not been cured by LSD. The lsd/schizophrenia model of psychosis is totally false and actually there was a study. it showed if you gave lsd to schizos, they could tell the difference btwn their shit and lsd and lsd didnt increase symptoms. but heres the other study

Evidence for a hallucinogen dependence syndrome developing soon after onset of hallucinogen use during adolescence. Author: Stone, A. L. Add.Author / Editor: Storr, C. L.
Anthony, J. C. Citation: International Journal of Methods in Psychiatric Research 2006, Vol. 15 Issue 3, p116-130 Year: 2006 Abstract: This study uses latent class methods and multiple regression to shed light on hypothesized hallucinogen dependence syndromes experienced by young people who have recently initiated hallucinogen use. It explores possible variation in risk. The study sample, identified within public-use data files of the 1999 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse (NHSDA), consists of 1186 recent-onset hallucinogen users, defined as having initiated hallucinogen use within 24 months of assessment (median elapsed time since onset of use ∼12 to 13 months). The recent-onset users in this sample were age 12 to 21 at the time of assessment and were between the ages of 10 and 21 at the time of their first hallucinogen use. The NHSDA included items to assess seven clinical features often associated with hallucinogen dependence, which were used in latent class modelling. Latent class analysis, in conjunction with prior theory, supports a three-class solution, with 2% of recent-onset users in a class
that resembles a hallucinogen dependence syndrome, whereas 88% expressed few or no clinical features of dependence. The remaining 10% may reflect users who are at risk for dependence or in an early stage of dependence. Results from latent class regressions indicate that susceptibility to rapid transition from first hallucinogen use to onset of this hallucinogen dependence syndrome might be influenced by hallucinogenic compounds taken (for example, estimated relative risk, RR = 2.4, 95% CI = 1.6, 7.6 for users of MDMA versus users of LSD). Excess risk of rapid transition did not appear to depend upon age, sex, or race/ethnicity. Copyright © 2006 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]en use. The NHSDA included items to assess seven clinical features often associated with hallucinogen dependence, which were used in latent class modelling. Latent class analysis, in conjunction with prior theory, supports a three-class solution, with 2% of recent-onset users in a class

I think our knowledge of depresssion is growing. Rather than just being a serotonin problem, it is far more complex. Some people. SSRIs DO WORK. This is due to it stopping intrusive thoughts, readjusting your circadian rhythm, stopping cortisol release. For others its due to serotonin deficiany being the problem or they use the serotonin to ultimetely control dopamine productions and reactions. However, its getting more complex. nmda receptors and kappa opiate receptors are a huge part of it if not only in some people but all people and the SSRI working on some of them may be due to other side effects. They are finding ketamine works by antagonizing NMDA receptors esp nr2b. Kappa opiate receptor agonization causes antidepression as well and may just ultimetely create the increase of endorphins or kappa opiate receptors are responsible for more than we though. they are all interrelated. MAO-I may work because a person has deficiency in all catachoulmans. I cannot have though because im dopamine sensative and get anxious. But, your therapy may work but you gotta realize its different for everyone and ssris do work for some its just very complex like i tried to explain simply. Ill elaborate more later but do you have any critisms/compliments or stuff to add?

[Xeraphim]

Originally Posted by eltimmy

I consider MAOIs a far superior option.

Be careful with MAOI's, they have many, many interactions with other drugs. Read up on anything you combine with an MAOI.

[imyourlittlebare]

also, some people who say antidepressants dont work probably arent that depressed. They just cant handle the side effects and want something to get them high even though there alright. or like i said, maybe something else is wrong. thats why there are SSRIS, s serotonin norepinephrine r is, selective s dopamine r is, and ketamine as well as ECT. (side note, ect and ketamine might do the same thing. except ketamine is much less invasive and doesnt hurt your memory. its shown a single dose of ketamine before 1 ect and the rate of success increases dramatically and the rate of needed other therapies significantly decreases. most ect therapies alone need 3 times so this is a big finding)

[KBLSD]

i think being happy and being in love are the highest highs you can get a that will last a long time with out any tolerance build up.

[imyourlittlebare]

Originally Posted by KBLSD

i think being happy and being in love are the highest highs you can get a that will last a long time with out any tolerance build up.

See, I disagree. While they are great and stuff, they dont last long. As alice cooper put it best "Lifes full of the ups and downs, im in the middle, without any plans, im a boy and im a man" We are in the middle. I used to envision this happy man who never got sad or seldom did because he had everything he wanted. I imagined a man with a girlfriend never being sad either. Both were misconceptions. You are constantly moving between highs and lows (I definetely think being high throws this off, I dont believe you emotionally grow when your high but thats another deal). you grow with emotions and learn better how to enjoy the natural happiness and better to deal with the lows. The reason I would disagree with you is that although your experiencing the same emotion each time, each time your happy its novel. There is a new set of experiences making you happy whether its contextual or actual experiences (remembering things that make you happy sometimes makes you happy and its new because its contextual, that is, your thinking about it in the here and now and its a new interpratation). The same goes with love. I actually think this is the deepest thing i ever wrote and i could explain it to you if you have any questions.

Originally Posted by KBLSD

i think im fine now im just going to live my life,ill let swim experiment with all the psychedelics though cuz i dont want that shit eating up my brain

ps. psychadelics dont eat up your brain. But there not as harmless as people say either. Ill post some stuff tomorrow.



* which perform barely better than placebo in clinical studies, btw. I consider MAOIs a far superior option.[/quote]

Maybe you should be an advocate for St johns wort or passion flower?

[KBLSD]

Originally Posted by imyourlittlebare

See, I disagree. While they are great and stuff, they dont last long. As alice cooper put it best "Lifes full of the ups and downs, im in the middle, without any plans, im a boy and im a man" We are in the middle. I used to envision this happy man who never got sad or seldom did because he had everything he wanted. I imagined a man with a girlfriend never being sad either. Both were misconceptions. You are constantly moving between highs and lows (I definetely think being high throws this off, I dont believe you emotionally grow when your high but thats another deal). you grow with emotions and learn better how to enjoy the natural happiness and better to deal with the lows. The reason I would disagree with you is that although your experiencing the same emotion each time, each time your happy its novel. There is a new set of experiences making you happy whether its contextual or actual experiences (remembering things that make you happy sometimes makes you happy and its new because its contextual, that is, your thinking about it in the here and now and its a new interpratation). The same goes with love. I actually think this is the deepest thing i ever wrote and i could explain it to you if you have any questions.



ps. psychadelics dont eat up your brain. But there not as harmless as people say either. Ill post some stuff tomorrow.



* which perform barely better than placebo in clinical studies, btw. I consider MAOIs a far superior option.

Maybe you should be an advocate for St johns wort or passion flower?[/quote]

haha swim kow psychedelics dont eat up ur brain he was just fucking around

[imyourlittlebare]

i figured. im a nerd. i kill conversations at the table sometimes. someone will say something factually incorrect, everyone will laugh, ill correct them and the mood is killed.
Who else here loves Alice Cooper? anyone>? sorry deviating from the thread

[juanathan]

if you are extremely depressed, the best thing you can do for yourself is sleep eight hours a night, drink lots of water, and take short naps in the afternoon when you can. with depression your body and mind are sluggish and not performing up to par... to me it just seems counterintuitive to put chemicals into your body. coax yourself out of entropy by doing healthy things

[KBLSD]

Originally Posted by juanathan

if you are extremely depressed, the best thing you can do for yourself is sleep eight hours a night, drink lots of water, and take short naps in the afternoon when you can. with depression your body and mind are sluggish and not performing up to par... to me it just seems counterintuitive to put chemicals into your body. coax yourself out of entropy by doing healthy things

swim tried LSD it worked like a miracle drug, there werent really any side effects either like with most anti-depressants, but it could of gone the the other way and fucked me up more

[Wemhim]

Congrats, if SWIM lived in a land where he could actually find LSD(He knows not people with it), he would consider it.

[KBLSD]

Originally Posted by Wemhim

Congrats, if SWIM lived in a land where he could actually find LSD(He knows not people with it), he would consider it.

dang swim feels bad for you bro, theres loads of very pure LSD-25 going around swims area

[Wemhim]

Swim probably just needs to look harder, he almost got some one time, but the person who was supposed to give it to them couldn't get it. Which is unfortunate, Swim is in a much better mindset than usual, it would be the perfect time for it.

[KBLSD]

Originally Posted by Wemhim

Swim probably just needs to look harder, he almost got some one time, but the person who was supposed to give it to them couldn't get it. Which is unfortunate, Swim is in a much better mindset than usual, it would be the perfect time for it.

try to get some mushrooms or mescaline, which you can grow both, and u can buy mescaline legally kind of

[Wemhim]

Swim has heard that mushrooms are more likely to cause nausea, and Swim REALLY hates the feeling of nausea, and puking in itself, a lot, he does it about once every five years, and that might be an exaggeration, whenever he can hold it in, he will. As for Mescaline, he doesn't know a whole lot about that, although some of the side effects scare him. LSD all in all, just seems to be the king of them, when it comes to hallucinogens, LSD is like the Atomic Bomb, and the others are like jammed AK-47s(Huge exaggeration).

[Psych0naut]

Originally Posted by Wemhim

Swim has heard that mushrooms are more likely to cause nausea, and Swim REALLY hates the feeling of nausea, and puking in itself, a lot, he does it about once every five years, and that might be an exaggeration, whenever he can hold it in, he will. As for Mescaline, he doesn't know a whole lot about that, although some of the side effects scare him. LSD all in all, just seems to be the king of them, when it comes to hallucinogens, LSD is like the Atomic Bomb, and the others are like jammed AK-47s(Huge exaggeration).

It is well known that psilocybe mushrooms can cause mystical experiences, and same goes for mescaline cactii and LSD Ayahuasca personally belong to this list as well. The 3 classic psychedelics(Psilocybe mushrooms, Mescaline cactii and Ayauhasca) have a long history of spiritual use, and mental healing. LSD isn't superior to them, but equal. A light to medium dose might not cause any profound spiritual effects, but nor dose an equal dose of LSD. The dose is the medicine, or the poison.

[KBLSD]

mescaline is just a mellow acid trip and mushrooms have never made swim sick, but if you eat peyote(mescaline) you might throw up

[Wemhim]

Oh, well, maybe mushrooms then. Of course, Swim could always try mushrooms then LSD. It's not like the body collapses after two uses of hallucinogenic drugs.

[Metomni]

Uhm, first off, comparing Mescaline to a mellow acid trip isn't a very good explanation. Also, peyote takes years to grow, it's not very easy to just snap into place, it takes lots of time and effort.

SWIM would definitely recommend both mushrooms and mescaline if you're interested in LSD, they're all wonderful things in their own rights and should be experienced and learned from both together and apart from one another.

Remember, simply because LSD worked like this for one person doesn't mean it won't do the opposite for another, and it also doesn't mean another substance won't do the same thing in another individual.

Just be open minded and don't try to force a certain trip, that could actually unintentionally cause a very bad trip. If SWIY just lets the substances guide them SWIM thinks they'll find their answer.

[imyourlittlebare]

lsa would be a better first choice in my opinion than mescaline. or salvia. even though its short lived, there are ways to get the high to last for a while by drinking a tea, taking extract and smoking i think. i dunno.

[Metomni]

"lsa would be a better first choice in my opinion than mescaline. or salvia. even though its short lived, there are ways to get the high to last for a while by drinking a tea, taking extract and smoking i think. i dunno."

Why would LSA be a better first choice than Mescaline? With salvia's intensity SWIM can see how that would not be a starting substance, but what's wrong with Mescaline? It's very soothing and very peaceful at low to moderate doses.

SWIM's only LSA trip was very underwhelming and at times even physically uncomfortable with only very mild psychadelic resemblences and would not recommend the same.