14-cinnamyl 3-acetyl oxymorphone

[Handle]

Any chemists out there know about this? 200 times more potent than morphine....could be worth investigating. I have seen comments about this substance by people saying 'Whoa -it's so great' but how do they even know what they're talking about? It's very hard to get stuff on this mystery molecule [including structure]

[JaWill88]

swims never heard of this but it sounds like it sure would kill the withdrawal swim is going through right now lol. oh yean it wont be necessary cause swim is ordering some pods anyways.

[chemlove]

SWIM knew nothing about this when i asked him, but was certainly intrigued. Things of this nature don't really do it for me. As they like that visual kick, but hope all the smart ones are getting ready to give us the lowdown

[tranquillike]

man there are so many potential analogs out there... SWIM just wishes he were able to sample a fraction of most of these analogs that most never see unless they have some mad chemist skills... even then all of the undiscovered compounds. You've really got SWIM's mind spinning now just fantasizing.

[Handle]

Yeah, but it might not be as complicated as we all assume. I mean, acetylating morphine, if a pair of scruffy A-rabs [just kidding, I'm not trying to offend anyone] can do it in that movie Traffik with like a wash basin and basically nothing more than souped up anhydrous vinegar syrup, this might not be as complicated as it seems.
I mean, what are the odds that the 3-acetyl is at EXACTLY the same position as one of the acetyls on heroin. And the 14-cinnamyl might just be the counterpart that replaces the other acetyl. And you can make oxymorphone out of oxycodone....
What do you call this, an ester, or what [please don't berate me for my ignorance]

Lokk, the main reason I bring this up is not to drool and go 'Oh boy, 200 times, whoo hoo baby' I was really just frustrated thjat I see all these wannabe's on other sites saying 'Oh yeah man, the 14-cinnamyl 3-acetyl, I wants me somma that!' And I just thought, hmm, there must be some evidence out there, you can't just agree something's great [I mean I do, but I'm only human] I really want to hear about this stuff, I mean, sure, it's all beyond me, but so is hammer and that gets made all the time.
I don't just get excited over stuff about which I am totally ignorant, I mean, etorphine is 100's o' times stronger than morphine but I wouldn't want that because the euphoria would soon be outweighed by sudden respiratory depression/likely failure...same goes for fentanyl, we've all heard the legendary lethality of 'china white' from days of old [ie, the late 70's] but doesn't mean you would want to try the stuff [try before you die, very shortly before actually, like immediately before] but I bring this up because oxymorphone is quite well known as up there, maybe [according to some] better than hydromorphone, now, most people wouldn't really bother to change oxycontin to oxymorphone because what you might gain in potency would probably be lost in small yeilds and just the general mess of extraction and transfer from vessel to vessel.
But with this stuff, it would be worthwhile to do for the chemists who understand this stuff [not me!!] because just one blister pack of oxy's could prove a sound investment in something much more enjoyable.
I really just wanted to stimulate debate [and I was aching to start a thread myself just for the sake of it] and since there are numerous references to this stuff elsewhere, but there was nothing here, I found my opening.
I also feel that in the two hundred times range, it is just at the upper limit of potency beyond which it would be impossible to dose safely [like fentanyl, I honestly think that stuff is best left to professionals, someone pointed out it's about as lethal per dose as VX nerve gas!!!!] but dissolved in liquid it could be done.
I also did not want to join in a chorus of applause for a substance which to me is just another obscure word but to ask the question, what is this stuff, where's the evidence that places like Wikipedia base these claims upon, and is anyone capable of a structural diagram that they could then direct people to see [I for one would be interested]. From what little I have heard, a few old timers seem to suggest that oxymorphone was really good stuff, in terms of buzz, physical and mental euphoria.
Maybe this variation could accentuate that euphoria, might be safer [in dose range] than those insanely powerful ones like etorphine, yet better nevertheless for the enjoyment factor.
Anyway, JaWill88, Chemlove and Tranquillike, I thank you all for contributing to my first thread.
I can't wait for someone who could shed some extra light, especially regarding the position of the two bits hanging off it [are they just in the acetyl positions as found on heroin, except one of them is 'cinnamyl'?], or the structural image.
Thanks

[trptamene]

I've never heard of it...but as has been mentioned. There is surely a whole suite of these that have been synthesized and probably hundreds more that have you to be made.

This super-opiates are some what scary with their potency, particularly to the chemist synthesizing it. Making some type of fentanyl analogue that is potent in the microgram range could prove fatal for someone that makes a small mistake in the lab. Imagine what would happen if these super-potent opiates found their way in pure form to the uneducated hands of the masses?

Also, increased potency does not neccesarily mean more desirable effect. Some drugs give better highs than others of the same class even if they are of a different potency (example...benzodiazepines).

[jerbles]

Swij has never come across oxymorphone, and is the only one around here that even knows what it is.

And there's really no point in fantasizing about trying every analogue of every opiate/opioid (that'd be sweet as hell tho), because really, most opiates seem to have the same effect (on swij), other than just small factors. I mean, the only reason swij would rather have oxymorphone than oxycodone would be if they were the same price per mg, otherwise, why not just use more oxycodone?

Trying to make stuff stronger in one's own home just seems a waste of time, and possibly product. I mean, cleaning up some street heroin's not a bad idea, but when one already has a pharmacutical opiate, just do what you're gonna do with it. Don't try and "synthesize" it down to make it XX times stronger. What's the point? (although if swij had enough morphine he would DEFINITELY try to make some homebake heroin )

There's TONS of opiates/opioids out there. I mean TONS. And every single one could be synthesized even stronger, probably, so swij will just stick with the basics, which he loves for what they are, and doesn't think they should be changed.

[Handle]

See, I find that funny that SWIY would make homebake heroin, because there is some evidence that a lot of users don't even know the difference between heroin and morphine, IV.
If you look closely, I have basically already said everything you said. I just think that if Rhodium is happy to put up a recipe for oxycodone>oxymorphone, a conversion your body will do anyway, well then why not at least discuss a substance that really would justify being made in terms of the increased potency.

Again, if you look above, I already said a lot of synths or conversions would be a waste because of low yeilds and just the mess of extraction and all that.

We all have heard the legends of china white and all the people that died, I know that, I said that already, dosing would be almost impossible, I guess that's why they only use the patches here in Australia, because anything else would just be a liability, I'm not denying that.
As I said, I don't see the point in just salivating over phantom molecules, and saying, whooo, 200x, 1000x etc. Basically, I was frustrated that there were people out there saying how great this stuff is without even questioning it. I want to see what people know, there must be something someone can add that's not just opinion, I want facts as well, like does anyone know who synthed this stuff, when, what does the molecule look like stuff like that.
I am the first to admit that potency does not necessarily equal desirability, but there were some reasons I felt this was worth mentioning.
There were some who said in the past that opana and numorphan were better in quality than heroin, now, of course there could be one reason that it was just small, easy to dissolve pills. But there is plenty of stuff that's easy to dissolve, look at dilaudid, now why would people pay more for little pills of hydromorphone than heroin unless there was a reason? I say, this at least makes oxymorphone and its derivatives worth looking at, the fact that they were so sought after.
Second, look at some alternatives, propoxyphene/methadone, meperidine/fentanyl
a lot of those piperidine relatives with the two rings crossing at right angles, well, they have some pretty high levels of respiratory depression per therapeutic effect.
Yet again, there are recipes out there for three of those chemicals, [although I've never seen one for Darvon because that would be a waste of time], some more complex, all just as dangerous or possibly more so than phenanthrene type drugs of comparable analgesic properties, for specific reasons, but for methadone and especially meperidine the high dose to effect ratio poses many problems, but it brings down the margin for error, because the higher doses needed to produce good mental effects pose a greater threat of side effects. Now of course you might say fentanyl is the complete opposite, because the doses are so low that the thereapeutic index is more desirable, well I would say yes, if you can get the dosage right, but with street stuff it wouldn't even be russian roulette, because in that game only one chamber is loaded, street fentanyl is like no mystery at all, deadly.
So, for those reasons I felt it was fair to start a discussion of this stuff, and point out that there are recipes for nastier stuff, and stuff that's very hard to make,
while oxymorphone and hydromorphone have been shown to posess in some cases fewer side effects even than straight morphine, so I don't think it hurts to look at these derivatives and ask "is it really impossible to make" -not for me, I'm not a chemist, and maybe it is prohibitively difficult, but I want facts on this stuff.
So again I ask, can anyone help?

[tranquillike]

See, I find that funny that SWIY would make homebake heroin, because there is some evidence that a lot of users don't even know the difference between heroin and morphine, IV.

That's really sad if an experienced opiate user could not tell the difference between heroin and morphine I.V. Insufflation maybe somewhat similar, but I.V. is totally different.

[jerbles]

swij agrees.

[Handle]

Hey, I just have a bad habit of regurgitating info I read. I don't know if it's true or not, because I have never had IV morphine, oh except when I was a little kid for different reasons, but back then, I didn't have nothin' to compare it to

Of course, I have known since childhood that by mouth, heroin and codeine are basically equal per molecule, because they get respectively downgraded and upgraded to morphine. So the argument goes that the only way you could feel such a difference is IV because only then would the faster crossing of the BBB really come into play.
Wikipedia makes reference to this, but also to the thing about people being unable to tell the difference. I would just say one difference is the smell. I believe that sometimes you can smell from the blood stream passing through the back of the nose just as you can smell the air in front, and gear don't "hit good" if that lovely acrid funny smell is absent. That happened to someone the last time he got fed up and just whacked a cap o' smack. Didn't have that trademark smell. I don't know if it's psychological or what but that seems to make a difference in the way the subjective high is perceived. Anyone who knows that smell of the excess acetate/acetic acid radical/acetic anhydride caused probably by the partial degradation of very well done stuff, anyone familiar with that smell from the outside when you crack that bag or unwrap the foil [or in the case of SWIM's personal experience, silvered cigarette paper] anyone who knows that smell also knows how satisfying it is to feel imbued with that scent yourself it is almost integral to the proper experience of the euphoria that it accompanies. I'm not lying, I know a lot of people say various shit "tastes like chicken" but good good stuff really does smell like pickles! I'm not just saying that[uh, no..."swim" is].
It even overpowers the stink of raw tobacco from the stuyvestant packet the foil paper got torn out of before it wrapped the "product" even though that came to be a familiar pungent odour associated with the ritual too. I'm saying the pickle smell of goodness really was powerful enough to override the smell of the ciggie packet that clung to the foil. Good times [but now they are over].
But back to regurgitating anything I read on Wikipedia. If you read the relevant entry, it is very ambiguous about whether the subjects were using the heroin morphine IV or by mouth or another way. Theoretically, any route that is not by mouth should bypass breakdown, and thus reach the brain still as heroin. But probably smoking would be the only one that could rival Iv for speed of delivery, and that would make a difference.
I mean, what's the point of a chemical that can cross the BBB in record time if the dose itself takes five minutes to fully absorb [as it would with IM, SC or IN].
Yes, it appears only smoking could both avoid the liver and introduce the full hit quickly enough to appreciate any meaningful difference.
So, yes, I'm guilty of just taking the word of Wiki, even if it may be wrong or may be I misread what it was saying, but nevertheless the relevance to this thread is this:
IF one is prepared to try homebaking morphine to get heroin, well if you had the skills why not go to work on oxycodone, and instead of just making oxymorphone, which to me seems a waste and unnecessary, make it into 14-cinnamyl 3-acetyl.
It really could be worth it.
Again, bear in mind, I have no way of testing the morphine/heroin thing in the forseeable future, as I have never in my life come across or heard of black market morphine, in any form, from diverted phials to cooked up codeine.