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#1
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The EU Treaty
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/br...cle3129899.ece
[top]Just 25% of Irish voters support EU Reform TreatyMonday, November 05, 2007 Irish support for the EU Reform Treaty is lower than that for the failed EU Constitution, according to a new opinion poll published this morning. Twenty-five per cent of respondents to the Irish Times poll said they would vote yes to the proposed new treaty, with 13% saying they would vote no and 62% undecided. --- Ireland is presently the only country willing to hold a referendum on the issue of the European Backdoor Constitution (aka Reform Treaty). Interesting that only 25% of people would lend their support to it; if this trend were to be expected across Europe, no wonder politicians are refusing to hold referenda on the issue. Sure, when democracy thwarts your plans the first time around, why not dodge it altogether? What are people's thoughts on the treaty? Do you oppose or support it and why? I'm actually very interested in hearing what people have to say about this, since so many here live in Europe. |
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#2
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Re: The EU Treaty
Well, my little c0conut (forgive the familiarity, you may be built like the proverbial brick outhouse...it's those damn forum names playing mind games again), what is your opinion?
I see two have said they oppose it already. What are your reasons? I'm a little undecided about this. In principal I think it's a good idea, but member nations have too much self-interest at heart to FULLY sign up to this. Nations are always looking for caveats....Ireland to keep it's neutrality, UK to keep it's currency, etc, etc, etc. I don't see how any such treaty can truly work when there are so many conflicting interests at play. Too many people see it as giving up on their sovereignty....the "we want to govern ourselves" attitude...well you can't have it both ways. If you are going to start watering down the treaty and making exceptions for certain member states then you may as well scrap the whole thing. Part of me feels there's a thin line between sovereignty and racism...."we don't want johnny foreigner interfering in our affairs". A fact emphasised by the fact that the far-right Le Pen is already interested in campaigning here (In Ireland) for a "No" vote. Of course the whole thing has possibly interesting ramifications for the 'war on drugs'. Would it make it harder or easier for a change in policy? Personally I am undecided. I approve of the idea in general, but am not all convinced that it can ever TRULY work due to conflicting member nation interests. I think far too many people are unaware of how the change would affect them. |
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#3
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Re: The EU Treaty
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Basically, my opposition to the treaty stems from my opposition to the European Union as a whole. I believe the longer Ireland remains in the EU, the greater the chance of being absorbed into a United States of Europe - now I'm sure some people think a USE is a good idea, whether it be to counteract the United States of America and challenge it as the world's sole superpower or to integrate the peoples of Europe since we're "all Europeans", therefore we should all live under one government for some reason. But I don't share either of these beliefs. Superstates are not a good idea. The European Union has done good for Ireland in the past, but it has so many absurd laws which Ireland has no choice but to make law here that I am growing increasingly disillusioned with our membership. This treaty is, of course, just a back-door version of the EU constitution. The idea behind it is that since the constitution was democratically rejected, it should be implemented some other way, by avoiding democracy altogether. Another point would be that I am a libertarian socialist and, therefore, am opposed to all kinds of authority. Quote:
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#4
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Re: The EU Treaty
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This is of course a VERY complex issue and there will be many that will be opposed on economic grounds (ask the Irish farmers for one). |
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#5
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Re: The EU Treaty
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![]() I do not have a problem with other Europeans contributing to our society. For example, people who immigrate in here from say, France or Germany. But my above point is generally where I'm coming from; the scale of government, its concern for liberties and its democratic accountability, and in regard to my extremely high standards, Europe fails on all three counts there. Quote:
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#6
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Re: The EU Treaty
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Anyway, looks like it's just you and me on this one. For the record, I don't think our views are vastly different and we are really only debating semantics. |
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#7
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Re: The EU Treaty
The ending of the war on drugs would require the agreement of all the EU at least. With a system such as the EU this seems possible. While if one nation on its own legalised drugs, then that society would simply have an unfair number of drug users and bear the burden entirely to itself.
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#8
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Re: The EU Treaty
I certainly think that we should tend more to an allegiance with Europe than America for cultural reasons first and fore-most. We are moving into an age where we will need more and more a strong superstructure that unites countries in a more rigid manner and allows greater integration of nations, so I am in favour of an idea like the EU. The problem is that the vast outlay that EU membership requires at the moment isn't worth the return for the UK at least, coupled with the problem of uncapped immigration means that the whole thing becomes more problematic. I think that we should be far more careful about where our money is being spent and the return and projected returns we get on it as we inevitably enter a stronger European framework, and that we should always allow an opt-out clause so that we can never be full bound into a course of action that we despise. As for the current debate about the European Reform Treaty - I think the main thing to do is put it to referendum in the UK. It will almost certainly be defeated (granted) but it is to all-encompassing and sovereignty surrendering for it to be left entirely to Whitehall and Westminster.
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| Opinions - The Lisbon Treaty and Drug Policy | Lunar Loops | Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics | 54 | 24-09-2009 19:31 |
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