What to do if you’re stopped by the cops

[BA]

<CENTER>
<H1>WHAT TO DO IF YOU GET STOPPED BY THE POLICE </H1></CENTER>


The legal system in the US is one arm of the octopus we call "The System." It was designed by and is used for the benefit of those who control the society. It was not designed to protect the "rights" of those who oppose capitalism or business as usual.


Because of various historical accidents, there are aspect of the law that, at least in theory, protect individual "liberties." The law presumes, however, that everyone knows what these protections are and if you don't know what they are, it is very easy to "waive" these rights. Therefore, in the interest of giving us all an equal chance when we're confronted by the cops, here are some thoughts on the law of police stops and searches.


This article is based on how things are supposed to be "in theory." The reality is that police can and will do anything they want out on the street. And they won't hesitate to lie about it later on.


But some cops are worse than others and a lot of them may treat you differently if they think you know your rights. The police depend on fear and intimidation to get what they want. Don't let them get away with more than they are allowed to because of fear.


If you run into a really bad cop, talking back to him and standing up for your rights might get you beaten up or killed, so be careful about the realistic limits of "the law" and of your rights in America. The cops are perhaps the most dangerous members of our society so pay attention when you talk to them. What if I get stopped by the cops?


When a police officer stops you on the street, the law says that the stop will fall into one of 3 categories: consensual contact, detention and arrest. Which one you're in determines how badly they can f**k with you.


At one end is a "consensual contact." This means that the officer comes up to you and says "can I speak with you?" If you say "yes," you have consented to have contact with the police. That is very bad. The result of such "consent" is that you won't have various "rights" under the Constitution.


Especially if you think you may be guilty of something (you have a warrant out on you, you are carrying drugs, you just did something illegal), never consent to talk to a police officer. This sounds backward. The normal impulse when confronted with a cop is to be polite and try to convince them that you aren't doing anything. If you follow such an impulse, you are unlikely to actually convince the officer and if the cop gets you on something, you won't be able to get out of it later on in court. Never voluntarily talk to the police!


If you don't think you are guilty of anything, it still isn't a good idea to consensually talk to the cop. You never know how the conversation will end up. And if people figure "well, I'm not guilty of anything so I'll let the police stop me and ask me a few questions now and then" the police state will be on the march. Further, it will encourage the idea that people who don't want to talk to the police have something to hide. How do I avoid a consensual contact?


If the cop asks, "can I talk to you" say something like "I'm sorry, I'm in a hurry and I don't have time to talk to you right now." If the cop insists, ask him "Are you detaining me? Am I free to leave?"


Ask this several times to make sure the cop will have a hard time lying and saying you didn't mention it later on if you get to court. If it is really a consensual contact, the officer ought to let you go on your way if you ask to go. If you don't actually verbally ask to leave, the court will presume that you consented to whatever follows.
<H3>Police detentions </H3>


The next category of citizen/police contact is called a detention. The police are only allowed to detain a citizen when there are "specific and articulable facts supporting suspicion" that you are involved in criminal activity.


This means that they can't detain you on a "hunch." "Specific and articulable facts" (SAF) means that the police must have observed something about your behavior and character that links you with specific criminal activity. If the police detain you without SAF, the detention is illegal and whatever they obtain as a result of the detention (evidence or arrest) cannot be used against you in court. How does this all work in practice?


Suppose the police stop you because it is late at night, you are walking around the city, "you look at them funny", look "strange" or are homeless or the wrong color.


The officer says "Excuse me, may I talk to you?" You say alright. You have just consented to talk to the police. If the officer notices after talking to you for a while that you have spray paint on your finger or wheatpaste on you clothing, or notices a bulge in your coat, the officer can find cause to detain you and could eventually arrest you.


If, however, you said "no, I have to go" the officer is supposed to let you go because he or she doesn't have SAF that you are involved in criminal activity just because you look funny and it is nighttime. The courts have found all of the facts mentioned above insufficient to justify a detention.


If the cop says, "well, you can't go" or otherwise detains you, then if they do find reason to arrest you, you may be able to avoid the penalty because the original detention was illegal. If the officer detains you and finds nothing, you should complain to the city, the "police review commission" in your town (if there is one) and you should let COPWATCH know about what happened. (510-548-0425.)


Often (except as noted below), when you start throwing around terms like "detention" and "specific and articulable facts" the cop is going to lay off. A lot of the police's power is intimidation and the public's ignorance.


It is crucial that you let the officer know that you are not "consenting" to talk to him and that the only way you will talk to him is if he detains you.


There may be SAF in some circumstances. If you rob a bank wearing red pants and a string tie and are spotted 15 minutes later in those same clothes carrying a white money bag reported missing by the bank, the police will probably have SAF. There is nothing illegal about a police detention if they have SAF, but not just anything is a "specific and articulable fact" supporting suspicion that you are involved in criminal activity. The facts have to be very specific.


A lot of "police harassment" situations involve the police stopping people because they "look wrong" and then going on "fishing expeditions" looking for a valid reason to arrest which they didn't have at the beginning of the stop. Don't give the officer a chance to find anything out--"Just Say No." What if the officer asks to search?


More serious than consensual contact and detention is an arrest. For an arrest, the police need a high level of suspicion of your involvement in criminal activity. If you are arrested, the police can search you as part of the arrest.


If the officer asks to search you without arresting you, you can say "no." The police have the right to search for weapons if they feel in danger of being attacked. They are not allowed to search people for other items. In a lot of cases the police ask to search someone and obtain "consent" to search. Even though the search isn't justified, it will be legal because the citizen didn't object and therefore "consent" is presumed.


If the officer asks to search you or any of your property, tell them you don't have a weapon and ask if you are under arrest or if they have a warrant. If you aren't and they don't, tell them "I would rather not let you search." They may ask many times and seem to be acting with complete authority. Just Say No. You will not let them search you unless they arrest you or have a warrant, and you don't have a weapon.


If they and search anyway and find something, you may be able to escape the penalty later in court. If the cop is obeying the law, they should leave you alone. The fact that you refused to be searched does not make you more "suspicious" and give them an excuse to search.


Of course as stated above, the police may ignore all of these laws and they may be less than polite and non-violent. When a cop gets out of control, deal with it carefully. But don't voluntarily consent to either a search or a detention

Very interesting, My husband of five years got arrested for walking on someones grass, the " victim followed the " thief " while on his cell phone...telling the cops that there was a man in his yard , and that he was wallking north bound on the same avenue that we live on ( 8 blocks away ) ...my husband had no tools, weapons, evidence of entering the home, and he had on shorts and flip flops..they charged him with burglary/occupied dwelling, he was not even arrested at the "victims house "...he was arrested in front of our home...he has a bad record from 18 to 25 years old ( he is now 30 ) ..burglary when he was 18 and 21 ( stupid kid stuff...stupid ) the rest were minor things, he had just received a promotion at work, got a new car, and we refinanced our home 2 weeks before the arrest, all the PUBIC OFFENDERS said that he would get was 364 w/credit time served.....right, aha....no way, when he went in front of the judge, the prosecuter said "HABITUAL OFFENDER "....boom !


68 months mandatory minimum guide line...thats almost 6 years ( by a couple months....) so does this mean thatI can follow someone with a record and say....." he just tried to rob my house..I followed him and called the cops...and wammo ! he's gettin' 6 years in prison.....you should read the police report...oh my god.....well, I finally got him a private attorney ( I have no money left cause he used it to pay off debts, and the new car ( he paid half off, so I don't have a payment till 9-05) , the private attorney thinks that the judge will dismiss the case, cause he does'nt like going to trial ( not without evidence from the prosecuter )my point is....he lost his job..., my children are relying on gov charity for food.....( that was hell because we own property and a new vehicle...along with clean credit cards , and I work parttime ( my mother had to take the kids for two more days a week cause I have to work full time now ) and all I can get is fifty bucks a month for food....I am using the credit cards to supplement my bills and mortgage payments...we will be in very bad debt when he gets out.....An american citizan, recently promoted, new car, all debts paid....motive ???? where? no tools , no fingerprints, only a record ...thats all it takes. Oh and he was arrested for paraphenelia the other times he was arrested (and once with the actual drug )My whole life has been destroyed, I have a 1200 dollar mortgage....and what kinda monster do you think would come out of prison in five years? after all that he has achieved in five years " the american dream " I'll tell you what kinda monster...a dangerous one ( and that is just common sense. ) but thank god for proof of his innocence: a letter from his employer ( very impressive ) and his credit report ( the attorney i hired wishes his was as spotless, not to mention closing statements from 2 weeks before the arrest for the refinance ....we got all the equity out of the home, plus two months of payment free mortgage.... ( just one of the perks of refinancing ) , plus the car purchase reciept ( he paid half off, and was going to pay the other half with our income tax check ).....that would all be gone if I would'nt had hired a criminal attorney.....the pubic offender ...turns out he had one deposition from the detective that met him at the police station on the night of the arrest ( he had never even seen him before in his life.....and swore up and down that he was a dangerous criminal...oh did I mention that they made a point to write: there were small children in the home of the victims when the burglar was on the premises. ...also : career criminal. on the arrest report. democracy???? it's been six months to the day....I am addicted to xanax and a tricyclic anti-depressant....nice. I do not entertain my children or treat them special ( without forcing myself ) I do things out of obligation alone, I have lost 25 pounds since the 6 year sentence ....( like I said : thank god I hired an attorney ) as for eating....my kids come before me. I now weigh 108 pds at 5ft 5 ( you can only imagine ) no one helps me ...all his friends scattered, my parents only take care of my kids for absolutey work related events. to those who read this....beware, no matter what you think your rights are...the cops have complete power, and you don't have any say in it.....unless you're rich like OJ.


disregard the saying on the bottom of the page...I don't believe in that bull s***t anymore. Life is not a banquet, and even if you think it is......it can change at the flip of a coin...one day you're bragging about you're new kingsize pillow top, next day...it does'nt matter if its a twin size mat on the floor. (thats going to be my new signature qoute. lupe

wow...thats so crazy... i wish i knew what to say... i feel bad... a lot of bullshit happens to the innocent cause they want the attention(the police)

[manda]

That sounds far-out- that he was just walking by, not found in house, no stolen stuff on him. I have heard of cops not using thealcohol blow-test correctly- if someone is borderline, and not over the limit, they will somehow get the reading to come out high enough to make the arrest anyway. I brought this up because you spoke of a dirty detective, that didn't know your husband, who said he did and claimed he was a dangerous criminal. I think they puthim away because they knew someone with his past recordhas little or no defense. Theylied to solve the crime neatly. I, too, am afelon. I got stopped once and all was fine, she said she was going to give me a fix-it ticket for a broken headlight. Then she ran my name, came back to the car andstarted saying my eyes were dilated. Sheknew I had been arrested for meth-amp possesion in the past, and was a felon. Before sheran my name, she was fine towards me,but afterwards I felt she knew I was a guaranteed bust. My eyes didn't look any larger after she checked my record. Instead of a fix-it ticket, she gave me the soberity test,for meth. As she handcuffed me and led me to the car she held me real tight- like she was scared I might make a break for it.I was under the influence of meth,but it had beenat least 7or 8 hours since I did it. My eyesbecame suspicious because of the past record. Shechanged from a nice cop who was going to let me free to someone who looked down on me now that she found out what I had done. I had just cleaned my car out completely, under seats,detailed it so it was close to spotless. No one had been riding with me that could have left something in my car. When we got to the jail, I was booked in and laying on a bench in the booking area, resting my head while I waited. She came back in and said "Miranda, do you know anything about this needle I found in your car?" I said something to the affect of I had no idea what she was talking about, there wasn't anything in my car. I spend a night or two in jail, and the guards told me she had wrote a PCS (posession of a controlled substance) report on me. I was bummin', because a second DUI when it hasppened was 2 or 3 days jail time. I figured I was going to get nailed.My first possesion charge was for a syringe that tested positive. Funny how I knew my car was clean and she insisted there was a syringe in it...I was released in 72 hours, the PCS report was never mentioned to me again. I think its because she didn't have one to offer as evidence. If she had one, she would have had it tested for residue and got me busted. I just don't see how she could PCS me and it not stick, but thank God not another felony. I have 2 DUIS for meth, from 3 years ago, and one possesion from 3 years ago. One of those DUIS was the one she gave me. Its funny how she looked at me different after she ran my name. I look pretty young and am polite and clean. She thought I was just a nice woman driving home until she found out my past. Then I was taken away, for something she said was just a fix-it ticket in the beginning. With the extent of your husbands record, there is little anyone could have done to help him. If he is really reformed, and you showed some proof of this, they could just say he decided to commit another crime, that he may have been reformed, but he was caught near a place that obviously needed a suspect. I'd like to just smack the idiot with the cell phone. Probably some middle aged to older man who saw your husband walking by and thought he was catching the burglar. Flip-flops wouldn't exactly be what a theif would wear, in case they had to run. I am trusting your story is true, it is hard for me to believe they would hall an innocent man off to jail. It wasn't that when they saw him they knew he did it, it was after they ran his name they decided he had. If he had nothing stolen on him, they shouldn't have detained him, especially if he made it clear he was just walking by, and the officer found nothing to prove otherwise. Saying there were kids in that dwelling he supposedly broke into- what does that mean.He is a married man with 2 children of his own.They looked at his record and decided they'd make out that he had been a severe threat to the children's safety during the course of the crime. I feel sorry for you. Especially because your mom isn't a bit more supportive of you right now, that's too bad she won't spend time with your kids unless you're at work. It's probably going to be hard for you to raise those 2 kids, losing chances to socialize among your peers. Do what I do, use the forum when you're stuck at home and want to meet friends or discuss issues. Try to pul thru this. Investigate with some other lawyers- see if one could possibly fight to get him out because of lack of evidence against him. I don't think your husband will turn into a monster. I know a couple parolees from tough California and Nevada prisons. They say men don't get raped, that the gays are more than happy to hook up with each other and straight guys who want a companion. I am trying to ease your mind a little. If you are really afraid he will turn into a monster, I do not think he will. A lot of these men come out with job skills and prison checks in their pockets, there will be programs he can participate in. My final advice to you is to spend a week or two consulting lawyers over the phone. Have the paperwork on your husbands case and all police reports and pertinent information together, so you can describe to them your husbands situation. Maybe call lawyers from different parts of your state. If you call enough of them, one may be able to help him, because there is a lack of evidence on his person or at the scene. You could even possibly get a court appointed attorney for him. Can you appeal the judges decision? I wish I knew of a place or person I could refer you to that could answer questions about appeals, another trial, etc. People have gotten out of death sentences, there might be some hope. Lawyers shouldn't charge you for phone time. Look up the best criminal defense attorney in your state, talk to the top dogs. Explain the situation, and see what kind of advice you can get. If you have done this already, great minds think alike. If you haven't, it is completely up to you if have the time to invest in an appeal or whatever it is they do. If they need documents, faxing them to the office will save you the cost of an office visit. If I see or hear of anything that might be helpful to you, I will contact you. You are a very strong woman. God bless you and yours, and good luck.As someone else with a record, I have felt discrimination as well, though no where near as great.I, too, was almost framed by a cop who insisted their was a syringe inmycar, which oddly enough she didn't inform me of until we were35 miles away from my car, at the jail.On cops theyusually confront the person right then if they are carryinganything illegal. It's odd, someone very close to me was involved in a huge bust, and they searched him many times and finally told him they had found a needle on him. He never was charged. The cops that play with the blower machine apparently joked about this with someone, they thought it was funny to give someone a DUI who isn't legally intoxicated. I can't believe your husband was given a fair trial. If what you say is true, this tragedy should have been prevented by the very people who started it- the cops. If they had been less concerned with his past, and looked at who he is now, he may have had a leg to stand on. I'm getting upset and rambling, so God bless you and your family. Also, if your fear is your husband turning into a monster in prison, you do not have to remain married to him. It is his choice what he becomes. He, too, could use prison library, etc. to research his options.


Stay strong!(Sorry so much to read) -Manda

sorry... i just dont feel like readin that all.. wow u typed alot tho... good thoughts im sure... thanx for input

[edgien]

COPS ARE THUGS~~~THEY get their high from busting honest people~~they create evidence so they can look like their doing their jobs~~~BULL SHIT!!!!! Many of these garbagepunks hiding behind a badge are nothing more then modern day SS gestapo PUNKS~~~I lost aLL respect for them long ago~~the vintage term PIGS is a true image of many of these modern dayenforcement personal......f**k'em when you have the chance.........just do it legally....haha

[davidBuster23]

Not many people will disagree with edgien, but it is important to remember to always be polite and professional when dealing with the cops. there's nothing to be gained by going off on a name-calling rant while they're in your presence. Through my years of having to deal with the police, I've gotten to the point where I actually enjoy talking to them -- it's actually fun to me to be kind, polite, and professional while telling them point blank that I know what my rights are and that I'm not going to speak to them any further. the look on their faces always gives me a chuckle. It's much better that you leave them behind bewildered rather than angry and looking to settle a score.

[manda]

The person who said I typeda lot is right- my goodness. It was mainly about people getting busted and how the cops try to frame people. (Sorry so long, Alfa, if you want please send that one to the garbage bin-it's much too long, THANKS)

[BA]

manda, it's a very good read, don't let others get to you, some people are just way too lazy.

If you've ever been f**ked over by pigs (which i have)read this:
<DIV class=title>How Knowledge Saved My Ass</DIV>
<DIV class=substance>Cannabis & Police</DIV>
<DIV class=author>by smoker 1</DIV>
<HR>


<BLOCKQUOTE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10 align=right>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD></TD>
<TD width=15></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE borderColor=#224422 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 border=2>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD align=right width=90>DOSE :</TD>
<TD align=right width=70>2 g</TD>
<TD align=middle>smoked</TD>
<TD>Cannabis</TD>
<TD>(plant material)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE borderColor=#444455 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 border=2>
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<TD align=right width=110>BODY WEIGHT :</TD>
<TD align=right width=70>120 lb</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Every thing in the report/story happened only names have been changed and dates left out...

A good friend of mine, 'smoker 2', had just gotten off of probation earlier on this terror of a day. We’re celebrating smoker 2's release from the bonds of our f'ed up law system at a mutual friend’s house with one half pound of some very robust and sticky buds that had been acquired by smoker 2 a few hours prior, when at about midnight when it was time to take smoker 2 home. On route to take him home I also took a 3rd person home on the way. After dropping of the first person smoker 2 and I began what would be one of the worst drives home in my life.

After less than 5 minutes of the journey I saw a police car make a U-turn just ahead of me 'great just what i need' I thought, 'my registration is out, my wallet is at home, my ticket payment is late and there is HALF A f**kING POUND OF POT SITTING NEXT TO ME!' So i did my best to just drive and pretend nothing was up. Well it seemed to be working, the car followed us quietly for about 5 minutes and everything seemed fine. Smoker 2 didn't even notice. Then we pass another 2 cops already cornholeing some other unlucky joe and I thought 'maybe that’s why i was being followed he was just on his way to this scene’ but, alas no such luck. We drove right past them and I still had a tail. Then my nightmare came true the red and blue flashies lit up my mirrors. I pulled over and told smoker 2 to stay calm I knew what I was doing. And thanks to Erowid (THANK YOU EROWID) I did know.

The first cop walks up to my car. After the officer take my insurance, tells me my registration is out and asks me about why I don’t have my license with me, he tells me he stopped me for failure to signal 100 feet before a turn and asks me to step out of the car and talk to him while smoker 2 waits in my car. As I get out of my car and walk to talk to this cop #1, #2 and #3 pull up with everyone's favorite pet the drug dog. I was still cool, calm, and collected but very high. Well now this is where the shit hits the fan, this is the do or die part. If you ever find your self in this deep you have to be ready for it and don't play their game -- knowledge is power so pay attention.

After signing my warning and after smoker 2 got his fair share of grilling it seemed we were going to get to leave and that every thing was cool. But that is what the cop wanted me to think and I knew this so I was ready when he fed me this line: 'Well son part of our job here as servants of the community is to make sure things like drugs and weapons are not being trafficked and I would like to take a few minutes to check your vehicle and make sure you dont have anything like that. Would that be ok with you?'

OK GUYS YOUR ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION IS CRUCIAL it should be something like this: 'Well officer I am in a hurry and I'd rather not do this right now. It’s late and I dont feel like having you going through my things.' Even a well put and reasonable answer like this is not going to make him shut up, but it is a very important foundation. Expect to be asked why you are in a hurry and what is in you car and everything else that the pig can think of to ask you that might make you slip and give him a reason to detain you. Be strong, you’re almost home free, keep saying things like “Am I under arrest, are you detaining me, I would like to leave, I’m tired and would like to get home soon.” It will work. this is the only place where the law is on your side. He can't check you car with out reasonable cause and he knows it but he won’t give up easy.

After the officer finally realised he wasn't getting in my car he tried something I wasn't ready for and haven't read about so you guys that know everything I have already said might still learn something from what happened next. The pig asked me if he could walk the drug dog around the outside of my car. With a little quick thinking and a lot of luck I think I replied 'you have a dog? Please keep it away I can't handle dogs, they don't like me and I don't like them, I would rather you just keep that dog away from me.' And with that I was free. There was nothing the officer could do to me, he knew it and I knew it I had won, I could see it in his eyes. He knew I wasn't telling him something but I knew my rights and he was out of options. So with that the cop let me go with a warning for failure to show ID, failure to signal, and expired registration and a big ass sack of weed. And my night ended with a few hours of Contra on the PS2, Opeth on the stereo, and a room clouded with some of the best smoke in my life; not because of the quality of weed but what I went through to smoke it. </BLOCKQUOTE><!-- Loaded /www/erowid.org/experiences/generated/a22622c739512f0d0c605baf144beee4_1.html
-->

[edgien]

Bones...you deserve the "MedaL of CooL" in the line of fire, a cool head and knowledge goes a long way. I quit smokin weed a long time ago due to workplace drug testing but I know the feeling of havin a great buzz goinwith a1/2Lb of mellow sitting close by and it is truely a sick feeling when the fuzz pull you over with "Almo" stickin his nose in your direction. Great advice for all to hear and understand....and I couldnt agree more with DavidBuster's advice in regards to how you talk to the thugs errr mean cops, if you blow up and startcussing and rantin~raving you will get slapped with a disorderly conduct charge......just fake it and be polite...haha

[Jetset]

I used to hang out alot with the local sport bikers in our town, we once stopped on the side of the road and 5 cops came out of the local stadium and asked us to leave. We have had problems before and I spoke with the chief so I dropped the chiefs name and said he told me we did not have to leave, we are on a public road. to make a long story short I got arrested for trespassing and had to go to court. It was thrown out due to lack of evidence. I wish I could have sued for harassment!
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[WhiteRyan]

Thesaid ok can i search the vehicle you seemed very nervous when i pulled you over, and said yes he could search the vehicle(vehicle was clean), then he said he was going to search me for weapons told me to turn around and stuck his hand in my pocket grabbing a pack of cigarettes and opening them to find about 5 pre-rolls and putting me in the squad car, Was that illigal of him to just go ahead and search me? or saying ok to the car involved me ? was it illigal of him?


All in all i spent 4 hours in a holding cell(not bitching) after a 10 hour construction work day in the hot ass sun. I wasnt even stoned, and locked me up without a shirt, walked out threw a crowded room of people dressed up for court without a shirt kinda embarrising

[BEEKSc1]

guest... that is geneous. i have read that same stuffon erowid about how to handle the cops.i made a small notecard with little notes saying...


Am I under arrest?


are you detaining me?


I would like to leave?


What is the law that allows you to hold me here?


I'm not under arrest, yet you've said I can't leave, please clarify my legal status at this time?

[thydarkprevails]

an officer still needs probable cause to detain you and arrest you. and if he arrests you, he better damn well be correct or you can bring civil suit.

[Lacognac69]

When SWIL was 15 him and a friend were smokin weed and drinking. They decided to go to a girls house. Along the way, actually next door to the girls house the cops drove up onto the grass and instructed them to get on the ground ( with their guns out). They pretty much attacked them and searched them immediately. Apparently someone had seen them walking, being that it was about 3am they called the cops. Apparentely SWIL was thought to have robbed a bunch of houses. They ended up searching for about an hour looking for things that might have been gotten rid of by them, but didn't find anything. They questioned swil and claimed that everything he had in his pocked must have been stolen. Eventually when they found no evidence they just took them home being that they were minors and all. THey however did keep money, and a few trinkets such as a really nice zippo lighter for some reason. THe situation was really shitty but could have been worse especially since swil had weed in their wallet. COPS SUCK BALLS!!

[psyki]

This is a great thread, SWIM has dealt with cops on several occasions
and thought he knew a lot but he was excited to learn about 'consensual
contact' and SAF specifically. Anyway, here is my contribution.



SWIM was driving to his mother's house through a quiet suburban
neighborhood when he was pulled over for having expired vehicle tabs
(stupid SWIM had the current tabs in his car but hadn't put them on
yet). SWIM had a small amount of marijuana in his backpack in the
car. Note: SWIM had been arrested while driving and convicted of
possession of marijuana about a year prior, thus SWIM is very informed
of his rights regarding vehicle searches. The cop walks up to the
window and SWIM informs him that he has the current tabs with him, so
the cop takes his license and instructs SWIM to put the current tabs
on. The cop is in his car for at least 5-7 minutes while SWIM
puts his tabs on then stands and waits for him. Finally the cop
gets out and immediately tells SWIM to turn around, he is under
arrest. The cop tells him that he has several "FTAs" (Failure To
Appear, basically SWIM did not pay his tickets) and that there is a
warrant for his arrest. The cop is correct, SWIM fucked up here.



Now here's where it gets tricky. The police are allowed to search
a car if they have probable cause, OR if the vehicle is being
impounded. This is to take an inventory so that nothing is mysteriously
missing when the car is picked up. The cop informs SWIM (as he
sits in the back seat, handcuffed), that he is going to impound the car
and therefore needs to perform an inventory search. The cop
inevitably discovers the marijuana in the backpack and SWIM is in
trouble.



Actually here's where it gets even weirded. At this point the cop
informs SWIM he is being arrested for possession of marijuana, BUT HE
LETS HIM GO. That's right, he let SWIM walk away from the scene
right there. So why in the hell did he impound the car??
The law in SWIM's area states something to the effect that a car does
not need to be impounded if it is reasonably unobtrusive or (can be)
parked, or if there is someone to drive it away. SWIM's argument
at trial was that the cop found out about his previous marijuana
conviction and used that as a reason to search the car. Since
there was no actual probable cause, the cop decided to impound it in
order to perform the search. SWIM's argument was that given these
2 facts: 1) SWIM was released from the scene, and 2) the car was
reasonably out of the way, the officer had no reason to impound and
search the car. The judge agreed with this and ruled that the
marijuana was discovered illegally.



To summarize: there are many factors that come in to play during the
search of a person or a vehicle, be AWARE of what is happening at all
times during a police encounter, even note the order in which things
happen. All of this can be useful at trial. Encourage your
lawyer to research prior cases, if they are not already an expert in
the field of your case. Sorry for the long post!

[brainwaxd]

thank you BA for this info, it sure makes me think about what the
police are REALLY supposed to be doing which is protecting civilized
people from criminals who have no respect for civility



however, the abuncance of archaic drug laws, a system which has been
jimmy rigged into this monsterous beurocratic labrynth rendering itself
ineffective, and ignorant taxpayers all contribute to a society that
let their own security force bully and harrass them while intoxicated
on their own power



i have a question about this topic: what if you are at
work? i work at a 24-hour convenience store/gas station during
the graveyard shift. many friday and saturday nights or early in
the morning the local night patrol sheriff will blatantly break the law
by driving into the parking lot around 40mph and screeching to a halt
near the pumps in front of the glass doors and windows, glowering in to
see if he can catch me flinching or acting paranoid when i notice he's
there. i have always seen him first, nod slowly and turn away,
which seems to work fine, but...



if he comes in the store simply to "ask how i stay awake all night" or
"why you're pupils dialated son?", i can tell him im busy with chores
or shouldn't be fraternizing with customers and ask him to buy
something... but if he wants to hang out and eat a donut or something
just to observe me working and then notices my bustling behaviour, can
he do any of this probable cause stuff to me, like question me for
criminal drug use? does me asking him what his questions are
about equal a consent for questioning? if for some reason the cop finds
reason to detain me, can my boss sue him for forcing me to leave the
store unattended and invitation for real criminals to loot the place?



if this ever does happen, and i know it will because the night cops are
creeps and have a hard on for tweekers, im just going to hide in back
and watch them on the surveillance monitor until they leave, or tell
them that they have to talk to my boss because he doesn't pay me to
help cops do their job, he pays me to run a gas station.



im just curious because there seems to be a lot of knowlege here about
our rights as civilized humans in a free society, much of which is very
new to me...

[Jon_F]

Sure, One can sit around all day and talk about what the cops can cannot do. But in reality the do what they want to do. Never have I been pulled over and told the cops they couldnt search my vehicle aand they simply walk away. HA! That is a myth. The last time I refused a search I was taken to jail for disorderly conduct and my damn car was searched anyway. The cop had the odacity to say, "You refusing to let me search was probable cause because if you didnt have anything you wouldve just let us". And by the way there wasnt s***t in my car. And one can say that when you go to court it will be thrown out on grounds of illegality. HA! Who's side do you think these county and state courts side are on? Yours? HA! Especially if it comes by the way of boosting revenue by tickets and fines and housing for inmates you know they are gonna screw you. Anyway, I get a lil ticked off when someone tries to give advice about how to tell the cops to buzz off and what they can or can't do. Obviously anyone who says these things has not had many run-ins with the law.

[CBR1000]

In swics opinionif yourguilty or not that's not important.Its the representation you have and who you know. Swic had a friend that was pulled over and cops searched his car without asking or a warrent. He had a qp of bud,a scale and small baggies. Lawyer said that his "civil rights" were violated. He got off everything.


Law is bullshit and cops lie all the time


Good luckand hope everything works out for your husband inhis appeal.

[Kittyofftitty]

So when a police officer turns on his siren and pulls you over is this
detention, arrest, or neither? And, when arrested can they only
search you or can they search the car or a backpack you may have?

[CBR1000]

to swics knowledge pulling you over is just a traffic stop. They cannot search your car without your permission/probable cause or a search warrent.If you have abag in the car they cannottake it and open it. Thats why they always askyou to do it. Putting hand cuffs on you doesnt mean you are under arrest. If you are arrested then they can search your car. Cops are shady. Know your rights.Never consent to a search and keep ur mouth shut.

[Kittyofftitty]

I heard that if you are driving drunk and the police pull you over you
can avoid a drunk driving charge by immediatly turing off the car
and dropping the keys out the window then start chugging a beer. I
guess they can't prove that you had drank before since the
breathilizer will read high since you just drank and that since your
keys are outside of the car you arent in control of the vehicle and so
can't be proven to be driving drunk. I don't know if I am wording
this clearly but can anyone with a knowlege of the legal system
confirm this?

[ou8e2]

Sorry for this off topic but in Ca the law says show your id,thats
it,if you are delayed,say Am I under arrest? ...if no say good bye and
leave and don't get out of the car or answer any questions.It has
worked many times.And bye the way does any body know Wet Dreams temp IP
# I lost it and it is off line.Or can you tell me were to find
it,Thanks very much!Bee careful down there !!! I know first hand of the
police state you have,I really feel sorry for you people living in the
US.

[mynameisshaun]

Originally Posted by Kittyofftitty

I heard that if you are driving drunk and the police pull you over you
can avoid a drunk driving charge by immediatly turing off the car
and dropping the keys out the window then start chugging a beer. I
guess they can't prove that you had drank before since the
breathilizer will read high since you just drank and that since your
keys are outside of the car you arent in control of the vehicle and so
can't be proven to be driving drunk. I don't know if I am wording
this clearly but can anyone with a knowlege of the legal system
confirm this?

That's a little hazey, because they could also charge you with having an open alcohol container in your vehicle, I'm pretty sure all the states have a law against that.