Dose - Thoughts: low-dose ketamine

[JKLJKLJKL]

SWIM has noticed that all the topics he has read here all seem to claim if you dont k hole there's no point and you need to really hammer it to have a decent go. But SWIM has found this certainly isnt true.

SWIM has had a fair few experiences on Ket - at home, in pubs in clubs, in parties etc. And its been suitable all the time.

The key SWIM has found is not to hammer it, unlike MDMA or E which you need to start with a large dose if you want to have the effects last for ages.... (i.e. taking 1 pill, then 2 hours later taking another... you won't come up off the second)

But with ket, SWIM will often have little bumps but reguarlyl, no matter where he is doing it, SWIM and his friends got about 20 or so lines from a gram of ket, maybe even 30. This is 30-50mg a line. From what I've read on here, SWIY seem to think unless you do a massive 200-300mg line its not worth it?
Well, SWIM will talk about doing small doses.....

Taking little bumps has many many advantages. Firstly it builds up which is a nice feeling to see setting in, you can speed it up if you want by having another line, and SWIM will often have a line every 20 minutes or so, though to start with it will be one ever 10 to get himself going.
SWIM starts to feel psychologically different quicker., and this si one of SWIM's favourite bits of Ket, SWIM will think about everything differently, make profound (well nto really but he thinks they are) statements about life, have conversations where him and his friend finish each other's sentences and read or watch something and see an extra depth to it that he never saw before.
By the end of the night you get the real trip of it, and it lasts a long time about an hour and a half, which is where you get to the K hole stage, but you've got all these things in your head about what you've discussed.

Also the euphoria continues throughout, though not as pronounced as ectascy it is a brilliant contentness, and conversations of life or even sandwich making just make you feel great.

Its easy to dance when you take small bumps as it seems to work as a stimulant - music becomes amazgin, and if you are in a club watching a strobe light with smoke billowing around it once made think SWIM that he was seeing the gates of heaven and being allowed in.Glorious times.

At parties you are unnoticable as being on Ket and so you can carry on as ytou usually are just watch what you say, but SWIM has had a conversation with an anti-drugs person about life when high on Ket and the other person didnt know.

SWIM personally thinks small bumps are the way to go even for someone who does ket alot, there is a AMAZING experience to be had before you K hole.

Reputation Comments on this post:

post helped out, thanks

[rxbandit]

Ketamine in low doses is very comfortable. swim finds it very worthwhile to take a small 30-60 mg bump to relax and just enjoy the euphoria. A lower dose is definitely good for dancing and socializing.

[JKLJKLJKL]

I completely agree.
Also sorry about the uninformative thread title. Cheers for editing.

[milly-aaiightbois]

I agree. The small doses are very pleasant to SWIM, although they are not so spectacular as larger, k-hole doses. They don't give as interesting a trip report. But SWIM would never knock it, it just gives you a different experience

[enquirewithin]

My fish agrees. He finds that as time goes on he likes smaller doses better. With so-called K-hole doses, he often finds just that-- a hole in his memory for 30 minutes or so. With ketamine, less can be more.

[JKLJKLJKL]

SWIM finds the low dose great just for the reason it gives you the option as to how you want to continue. If SWIM finds after half an hour he really wants to get fucked, he can just start taking slightly larger doses. But larger doses aren't necessary, even just more frequen doses. SWIM can change to a line every few minutes and enjoys the buildup greatly.

[Lettish]

Swim agrees. He is slightly anxious when taking Ket because he does not want to hit a K-hole. He thinks less is more, of course, depending on the circumstances.

Swim has read that this is why Ket can be dangerous, because if Swiy can no-longer hold on to that tiny thought of "getting back to normal" then apparently it's the worst feeling ever. My friend once said it's important to relax on Ket, and that every time some anxiety kicks in, gently remind yourself that it won't last forever.

Hydroxy

[shagra]

swim loves doing small lines for a while, then hitting a few big ones and falling into bed/hyperspace.

[Masa]

SWIM knows what your talking about and in part he agrees , the come up from K is great even if the K-hole that comes later is weak
but
SWIM can go to a party and have fun and chat to ppl or SWIM can go to a club and dance about like a tosser with out K
but SWIM cant K-hole with out K
so save your K and use it when its the only tool for the job

[InsaneNcrazY]

SWIM like low does K bumps but the odd K-hole is fun while your alone.

[enquirewithin]

The problem with K is that it's so dose dependent. Too much is simply a waste.

What is a "K hole" anyway? Loss of consciousness?

[Shampoo]

During low-dose ketamine experimentation, swim found that physical and cognitive exploration both provided great pleasure in a rewarding manner. Simply raising and lowering his arm would produce a feeling of content and satisfaction out of a sense of both control and visceral pleasure. During another experiment, swim entered a sensory-depravation chamber on approximately 55mg. Without the input of physical stimulation, cognitive exploration really expanded introspectively. CEVs also found a comfortable place of intensity, without an overwhelming element of power. Sensory-depravation under the influence of K is considered to swim a more valuable 'tool' in cognitive exploration, though the effects outside of depravation also have their inherent value.

[Nose Dive]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

The problem with K is that it's so dose dependent. Too much is simply a waste.

What is a "K hole" anyway? Loss of consciousness?

I suppose a lot of people have different opinions on exactly what a K-hole is. My BIll would say it's when he loses all grip on what is actually around him and finds himself transported through different sensations, dimensions and usually, paterns. That for HIM is a K-hole anyway.

If SWIY do enough to pass out, first of all congratulations would be in order. And yes, you're right. It would be an extremely bad waste.

[Shampoo]

Doing enough K to pass out (around 250mg+) would not only be a monumental waste, but a sure-fire path for neural Olney's lesions as a result of NMDA channel blockage. Additionally, episodic debilitating memory lapses have been shown as common side-effects of extremely high dose use for weeks to months following dose.
The only congratulations in order there are, "you've proven natural selection!" and "thanks for paying for the hospital's new EEG machine".

For more information on the medical definitions and study of "k-holes", see the University of London's Pharmacology Dept. Study:

http://www.ketamine.com/khole.html

[enquirewithin]

The question about "What is a k-hole?" was not meant so literally. My horse gets weary of the phrase. Sure a 'k-hole' is when you lose awareness of you r surroundings and perceive yourself to inside a vast space, or sometimes a constricted one. Some time you can feel that your flying through the air, or traveling through a surreal terrain. My horse has been taking ketamine for some time, but actually prefers lower doses these days.

John Lilly (The Scientist) talked about riding 'k-waves', which phrase my horse prefers.

This also means you are barely conscious. The Olney's lesions scare was, I believe, discredited and mainly directed at DXM.

Ketamine is a very safe anesthetic and is used at far above recreational doses in surgery. The main dangers are from accident-- falling over or drowning.

[Shampoo]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

The Olney's lesions scare was, I believe, discredited and mainly directed at DXM

a pipedream of the psychonaut...

recreational doses, and medicinal doses, have little to no risk and the inherent damages can find repair within a few days, sometimes within a couple dozen hours.
DXM causes Olney's lesions for a different reason than NMDA disturbances, though the result is relatively the same. For more articles than you could throw some hearsay at, see: http://www.experiencefestival.com/ol...s/articleindex

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by Shampoo

a pipedream of the psychonaut...

recreational doses, and medicinal doses, have little to no risk and the inherent damages can find repair within a few days, sometimes within a couple dozen hours.
DXM causes Olney's lesions for a different reason than NMDA disturbances, though the result is relatively the same. For more articles than you could throw some hearsay at, see: http://www.experiencefestival.com/ol...s/articleindex

That link doesn't work for me. This one does. According to Jansen's Ketamine Dreams and Realities (pp 240-1), the so-called 'lesions' or 'vacuols' which Olney found in rats do not occur even in monkeys. Jansen has studied the work of Olney.

Obviously chronic ketamine use is going to cause harm, not the least psychologically, although we are going off topic.

[Paracelsus]

DXM causes Olney's lesions for a different reason than NMDA disturbances

Basically everything you said in this post and in post #14 is right, but you used the wrong term. It's not Olney's Lesions, but brain damage/cognitive impairment.

Olney's Lesions is a synonym for NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity. There is no "Olney's Lesions" (at least in rats) caused by anything else than NMDA blockade.