Consecutive bleeding method.

[samuraigecko]

SWIM wanted one to explain how he bleeds his pods in preparation for the making of his "flake opium".

Firstly, he uses two tools for this, both are made from spoons (stainless are best)

Using a Dremel or similar grounding or routing tool, make the first spoon into a crescent moon shape. so that the inside edge is like this ) this tool is used for collecting the bled latex.

Do the same with the second spoon, but where the ) shape is, make sharp and small serrations. This tool is used for making the "scrapes" or "incisions".

The serrations should not be more than about a MM or 2 deep and should be very sharp as to make good incisions. The reason for this is that if one incises into the pod too deeply then it will have a number of undesired effects. 1: it wont bleed properly. 2: it may bleed into the pod rather than outside the pod. 3: you may damage the seeds. 4: if you breach the whole pod wall you will damage the pod itself making the consecutive bleeding method impossible.

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Making the incisions.
Use the crescent moon tool with the serrations to make an angled scrape starting at the bottom and scraping up in a sweeping motion. the scrapes should look angled like this ////
The reason for scraping up in a sweeping motion is to prevent any bleeding onto the tool itself. When one scrapes UP in a sweep the bleed is always below the tool.
DO THIS ON ONE SIDE ONLY.
Once that side of the pod is bled and the latex gathered with the second tool. One can then scrape the exact opposite side of the pod and do the same thing as above. Once that side has been collected you can then do the right or left side the same, then the right or left side again depending on which you did first (do the opposite). By that time the first scrape one made would have healed and one can start all over again until the plant and pod dies. SWIM usually gets a good 2 or 3 bleeds out of each "face" of his pods before the plant starts to die with his particular strain.

Things to remember when collecting the latex.
Do not be rough, be as gentle as possible to avoid damaging the pod.
When one collects the latex one should use an upward motion slowly to avoid flicking the latex off into garden oblivion.
As the seeds mature the latex will be more potent, so do not start the bleed as soon as the petals of the flower fall off. SWIM usually waits a day or two before starting his bleeds.
When the plant starts to die it will no longer produce latex as the only reason that it does produce the said latex is to protect the seeds from predators until the seeds are mature enough to "go it alone".

SWIM may believe this to be a more efficient method of bleeding and one may obtain more latex this way, if one is careful not to damage the pods too much and allows time for each "face" to heal before repeating, the plant itself will stay alive for longer. The key again with this method is patience, if one has none then one wouldn't bother with this method. The rest of the alkaloids can be extracted in the normal way etc, everyone has their own preferences for that and SWIM had one outline his preference in another thread.

SWIM hopes this has helped in some way.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very informative post.

[Ganja Joe]

Very nice, I was wondering how SWIM might collect latex...

Secondly, does SWIY save the pods and stems for drying/extraction later? Are there any goodies left in the pod walls after consecutive collections by scrapping?

[samuraigecko]

it doesnt matter how much one bleeds them, there is always A LOT left over in the dried pods for later extraction. In fact that is part of the procedure for S.E.Asian countries. they bleed pods, collect latex, cut pods, dry pods, grind up pods into powder, put latex and ground material into 55gal drums, make the "cooked" opium, filter, evaporate, and thats whats for sale on the open "black" market to people whom buy bricks of opium for the production of heroin.

hope that has helped, cheers.

[BasVon]

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

they bleed pods, collect latex, cut pods, dry pods, grind up pods into powder, put latex and ground material into 55gal drums, make the "cooked" opium, filter, evaporate,

SWIM was wondering why its necessary to dry the pods before making CFO. SWIM thinks that there would be more O in a non dried green pod. Is it better that way so one would not get all the green extracts?

[samuraigecko]

SWIM has asked one to update this a little as his friend tried a little something after reading another post here which seemed to work even better than this although it is based on the same technique in a way.

SWIMs friend made a tool from a bolt stem, a piece of double sided tape and a drawing pin. The pin is attached to the bolt with the double sided tape. one could solder or glue this pin on also if one wished.

SWIMs friend then used the exact same technique of bleeding by "faces" consecutively but did it Via making small punctures which do not breach the pod walls. These were done in "lines" starting at the bottom of the pod and working up so as not to "smudge" the bleed at any point. SWIMs friend exceded SWIMs usual resulting yield by about 30% using this method (SWIMs friend also uses the same seed stock so the plants are fairly comparable as far as these things go) and in some cases actually beat him by up to 50% for the pods which bled very well (as anyone will notice when one grows poppies some pods will bleed better than others for whatever unknown reason, even on the same plant).

ANOTHER NOTE TO REALLY REMEMEBER:
SWIMs friend also feels he beat SWIM in this manner because of timing as well as a superior method. SWIMs friends timing was to not just wait until the petals from the flower had fallen off BUT to also wait until the "crown" of the pod started to point upwards. One will notice when growing pods that when the petals of the flower falls off and the pod is exposed, the "crown" of the pod remains level or even almost turned down. In a day or 3, the "crown" will begin to rise and point more upward. SWIMs friend says that this is the optimum time to start.

Hope this has helped and elaborated, cheers.

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent details, thanks

[Lehendakari]

Thank you for those tips, when does SWIY do the bleedings? Some say is best in the early hours of the morning some say is best at night.

[samuraigecko]

Both SWIM-1 and SWIM-2 check the weather report then bleed during the day. This facilitates drying of the bleed so it can be scraped back during the evening and also prevents any moisture development which may occur during the night time. Moisture accumulation on the pods when bled should be avoided at all times since opiate alkaloids are water soluble as most everyone knows. Moisture development on the pod during the night time would "wash" away some of the plants natural "goodies" obviously, as would rain which is why they check the weather report constantly. Both SWIMs have heard that it may be better to bleed during the night time and both have tried it but they both have always achieved better results from bleeding during the day. Both sunlight and heat help to facilitate the bleed also. Both SWIMs seem to say that the pods bleed better during the day time than at night and thinks that this may be because during the day the plants metabolism is working harder so the flow of juices in the plant is more abundant and prolific. During the night time plants tend to shut down to a point.

Both of the SWIMs often go overseas as is mentioned in many threads and have always seen pods bled in the morning to be collected in the evening By those peoples.

As with every post, Hope this has in some way helped. cheers.

[Ganja Joe]

Hmmm... it might take more effort (more punctures)... but I wonder if SWIM could simply grind a plastic head/tip thumbtack down with a dremel too to 1.5-2mm and simply puncture the pod walls several times. By grinding the pointy tack down, the base of the plastic becomes self-limiting... then again, you can take an average box-cutter knife and limit it as well by how much you choose to extend the blade out.

Perhaps drive some finishing nails into a piece of wood with them sticking out the other side a couple of mm's? Or maybe taking some balsa wood and sticking 3-4 scalpel blades from one side to the other so only a mm or two stick out the other?

Just a thought... all sorts of home-made harvesters come to mind.

[Dr. Amapola]

Originally Posted by Ganja Joe

Or maybe taking some balsa wood and sticking 3-4 scalpel blades from one side to the other so only a mm or two stick out the other?

Just a thought... all sorts of home-made harvesters come to mind.

SWIM has made many tools and below is a description of my hands-down best pod scoring tool. Thinking of taking pictures of SWIM's tools and posting them with how-to's on how to make them; not a bad idea, no?

Anyways..

The tool is shaped like a toothbrush. It has a handle and a flat part on one end that houses 4 very sharp blades spaced very close together. The depth of the cut is limited by the amount of blade sticking out from the surface of the wood (just over 1mm which has proven to be just right).

Simple balsa and bass wood contruction. Same wood used for model airplanes, hobbies, etc. Made a nice handle from the balsa, and a flat head at one end for the blades. Then took apart 4 Bic single-edged razors and slid them thru the balsa head, spacing them out about 2-3mm apart. Cut/snapped off the back of the razors that sticks out of the back side of the tool, and then covered the back of the tool's head with a thin piece of basswood to hide [and protect hands from] the back of the razors.

Finally, some indentations were made for a comfort grip, and (this part is optional, or you could opt for some other kind of finish) then covered it with some nice marine fiberglass epoxy/resin which gave it a beautiful glossy finish, almost like plastic but harder, and makes it practically indestructible.

The end result is a tool that really does the job and will last for years. After reading so much about tribesmen and women who have opium harvesting tools that have been passed down for generations in their families made SWIM want to make my own tools and add a little of SWIM's own personal flavor to them. Way to go culture!

[samuraigecko]

Great ideas, especially if a curved surface area was used, this would mean one could just press the curved surface to the pod and walk away in one clean motion.

Cheers.

[truth]

SWIM is semi confused. why cant a SWIM just cut through the whole poppy. Like cut it in half like an apple. Now SWIM is not saying SWIM is gonna do this, but to SWIM never working with poppies, Its hard to understand. SWIM will also search the interweb and the tube.

[samuraigecko]

To bleed the poppy SWIyou need to cut into the pod wall but not BREACH the wall. This allows the pod to "bleed its sap" or "opium gum" or "latex" as it is known.
This is traditional raw opium and it is this gum/sap/latex which holds morphine and the other alkaloids.
Cutting the poppy pod in half would be REALLY BAD if SWIyou were trying to harvest any opium gum from the pods before cutting and drying the pods for further processing.

THIS picture may help SWIyou understand.
This one may help too
This is the gum/sap/latex being harvested
Here is a Persian from Afghanistan
These are SWIMs crossbreeds which show marks of pin bleeding.
Hope this has been of help

[truth]

swim is not sure if he can post links but found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT4uPDpZs0Q is that how SWIM cuts it?

[samuraigecko]

yes thats one way of it being done. And probably the most popular way in (unfortunately) poorer countries.

the tattoo gun method works much better and makes a more profuse bleed.

One of the first poppy fields SWIM has seen with such an array of colored flowers. Most of the fields he sees are all one color. All purples, all whites, all reds etc. Occasionally he sees 2 colors but never such an abundance.

Hope this has been of help

[Dr. Amapola]

Thanks samuraigecko, excellent post!

[timster7]

Fresh pods have chlorophyll that'll degrade as it dries. Chlorophyll is hard to get out of CFO and simply isn't worth the extra alkaloids.

[Dr. Amapola]

SWIM wanted to report that using the needle-poking method is much better than the toothbrush-knife that swim used in previous seasons. It also looks much less conspicuous, almost as if it is occurring naturally. And thats good news for clandestine farmers.

[BasVon]

Is it better to let the pods dry naturally while still in the ground or would SWIM be better off cutting and drying the pods?

[Dr. Amapola]

swi-BasVon,

if you want maximum yield from the poppies you should leave them in the ground. Hanging them up to dry before they are done growing (and producing latex) would be a waste of a great source of medicine.

[timster7]

SWIM disagrees. SWIM would pick them at their peak. They only produce good alkaloids (Morphine+Codiene) until the seeds ripen. Once that happens alkaloid production is decrease massively and most alkaloids present degrade.

[Dr. Amapola]

Originally Posted by timster7

SWIM disagrees. SWIM would pick them at their peak. They only produce good alkaloids (Morphine+Codiene) until the seeds ripen. Once that happens alkaloid production is decrease massively and most alkaloids present degrade.

someone-who-isn't-timster7,

SWIM just wanted to clarify that he meant to "harvest" the poppies when they are ripe instead of cutting them when they haven't reached their full capacity. SWIM supposes he may have read it wrong; but anyhow, also what SWIM meant was that if you cut them too early (one thinks) the alkaloid production won't be at its peak. SWIM has noticed that pod size increases by about 25% or more once the petals fall off and the pod begins to ripen. So one should just wait until the pods look swollen, the dark ring (which starts out grey; where the petals were attached) turns brown-black, and the pod is covered with a white film that rubs off easily with a touch of the finger.

The optimal method:

If one can bleed the poppies before cutting them, that is optimal because one will get much more latex that way. Especially if one uses the consecutive bleeding method which is a popular thread in the poppy growing forum. Using a sewing needle is also better than a knife because it doesn't hurt the pod, allowing it to continue growing. The consecutive bleeding method used in conjunction with the needle/tattoo-gun method of lancing the pods will absolutely increase one's overall yield, and once swi-you've gotten all the latex harvested, one can add that harvested latex to the batch of opium one makes with the cut pods. Follow the instructions for cooked/flake opium (also in the forums).

Have Fun, Be Smart, & Be Safe!

[Duster]

SWIM would cut his pods off the plant after they finished producing latex or at least slowed down a lot. The reasoning is that it frees up more resources for the plants to mature the remaining pods and even make new ones... This was indoors btw.

[timster7]

Indeed, SWIYou said before they are done growing, SWIM misread. He believed you meant to let them die and then harvest. Same page after all. Just remember punctured pods are a liability, SWIM would know(cop/DEA visit).

[robshaka]

Swim is wondering, how long should you wait to score the pods after the last petal falls off? Swim read 14 to 20 days...Is this true?

[timster7]

Please UTFSE. SWIYou's answer is in numerous other threads.