Effects - Is it possible to get higher on Kratom?

[AceOvArts]

It seems like when SWIM uses Kratom he can only get so high. Any more Kratom and one risk Nausea and vomiting. With opiates you can get higher by using say, morphine over opium or Heroin over morphine. Does anyone think this will be possible with Kratom ?

[sarbanes]

no, not with krantom. but morphine has no ceiling, and can be used (w/ oxygen) to induce surgical anasthesia. so same would obviously hold true for heroin. heroin is inherently safer than morphine. it is just a better drug.

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by sarbanes

no, not with krantom. but morphine has no ceiling, and can be used (w/ oxygen) to induce surgical anasthesia. so same would obviously hold true for heroin. heroin is inherently safer than morphine. it is just a better drug.

That doesn't sound right. Both heroin and morphine produce nausea and the there is a very definite ceiling for any opiate. It's called death, preceded by unconsciousness.

As for kratom, my cat tells me he likes it because it not a very heavy drug. He can get things done, feel good and not have too much of a hangover.

[paranoid_android]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

It's called death

There's really only one way that opiates alone cause death, and that's through respiratory depression. Breathes become very shallow and infrequent. If you forced the person to breathe until they metabolized the drug to safe levels, they wouldn't die. Only using oxygen alone through, say, a nasal canula probably wouldn't work because the patient is still not getting the oxygen into them. But if the oxygen were forced in with that balloon thingy or an iron lung, the OD will not be fatal.

[Bikelbees]

So what can you use to potentiate kratom? SWIM only remembers one worthwhile kratom high when he made tea with unweighed amount and necked it. It must of been a lot more than thought, but it was a full effect with nice CEV's different in character to what SWIM has experienced, and Kratom is more than an psuedo opiate of course.

[Thirdedge]

Swim has heard Kratom can be potentiated with grapefruit juice and also DLPA.

[Br00klynB0y87]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26271

[AceOvArts]

I was thinking that maybe it was possible to create a stronger drug from kratom, just like opium yields morphine etc.

[Br00klynB0y87]

^^^

And why would you want to go and do that I mean c'mon! ... taking such an innocent/natural herb like Ketum and trying to make it into a crude synthetic will be the cause of it's downfall and further result in it becoming scheduled.

Just enjoy it as is, if you want to boost it's effect's read the Un-official combination thread I posted for you.

.peace.

[paranoid_android]

Originally Posted by AceOvArts

I was thinking that maybe it was possible to create a stronger drug from kratom, just like opium yields morphine etc.

You don't turn opium into morphine, you extract the morphine from the opium. It's already in there. Same thing with kratom. You could, however, isolate the single drug responsible for most of its effects (such as, say, 7-hydroxy-mitragynine). The only reason that would remove the ceiling and/or nausea from kratom is if there happened to be a compound in kratom that isn't responsible for the high, yet causes nausea at high doses. I posit another scenario: the primary drug in kratom, like actual opiates, causes nausea at high doses. It acts like an opiate in every other way; maybe it just causes more nausea than your average opiate.

[Br00klynB0y87]

Originally Posted by paranoid_android

You don't turn opium into morphine, you extract the morphine from the opium. It's already in there. Same thing with kratom. You could, however, isolate the single drug responsible for most of its effects (such as, say, 7-hydroxy-mitragynine).

But you see, that's where your wrong, 7-hydroxy-mitragynine is NOT responsible for most of it's effect, it's actually the combined combination of ALL the 25 unique alkaloids that gives kratom it's unique characteristic.

You must understand that isolating particular alkaloids is not going to make for a stronger kratom experience instead it will fall short - with that being said, these isolated alkaloids imo are a waste of money - not to mention they put kratom at risk for becoming scheduled.

.peace.

[paranoid_android]

True. In this case kratom is also like opium in that the rich amalgamation of all its constituent alkaloids provide a richer high than any of them alone. I suppose it's possible that one of the minor alkaloids that contributes to the high is the prime reason for kratom's unique emetic properties.

Actually, this has got me really intrigued now that I think of it. What if what I just said is actually the case, a sort of "kratom's thebaine" if you know what I mean. Maybe selective breeding could remove or reduce this particular chemical from kratom's makeup, offering a comparable high with a reduced nausea.

[Br00klynB0y87]

Originally Posted by paranoid_android

...Maybe selective breeding could remove or reduce this particular chemical from kratom's makeup, offering a comparable high with a reduced nausea.

The nausea that some encounter can more than likely be avoided. -There are an array of things one can do from experimenting with their dosage to using particular herbs as an aid, such as ginger, blessed thistle, peppermint... also making certain that they aren't consuming a large amount of food (if any) right before they ingest ketum.

So as far as your idea of selective breeding as a means to eliminate nausea... -I don't think there is any specific element which is responsible for causing nausea... as I've said - only some experience nausea, and with proper technique through trial and error one should be able to overcome the nausea.

.peace.

[AceOvArts]

yes thats true, and I already have read it thanks.

[spatchcock86]

Swim's noticed that Ginkgo seems to potentiate the effects of Kratom quite noticeably. Originally, swim used Ginkgo to lessen the itch Kratom produces at high doses.

Ginkgo contains over 7 different natural antihistamines and mixes well with most herbs, so swim thought this would be a good herb to use. Not only did/does it lessen the itch, it also seems to enhance the sedative qualities of Kratom and prolong the duration.

Swim takes two 120mg Ginkgo extract tablets. Each tablet is the equivalent of 6000mg whole Ginkgo leaf.

[N0ly]

Maybe SWIY could steep the kratom in hot lemon juice to extract more efficiently. works well with poppy seed tea.

[Proven]

If SWIM wants intense high from Kratom then stick with heavier extracts. 250X, 15X etc....

[enquirewithin]

LOL! Probably true, but most recreational users don't have an Intensive Care Unit handy. Perhaps if kratom users had their stomachs pumped they could get higher too.

[paranoid_android]

SwiPA got nauseous a few times from kratom. Maybe as much as 25-50% of the time he got anywhere from slight and transient nausea to full-blown "get me some f*cking ginger" near-vomit. He has also taken hydrocodone many more times than kratom, yet he hasn't gotten nauseous as many times. Percentage-wise it's probably on the order of 5% or lower.

It's a shame the pharmaceutical companies won't research this and sell the individual alkaloids. There are a lot of people out there that can't take many of the traditional opiates because of a sensitivity to nausea. It might very well be that some people get more nauseous on kratom's alkaloids, and some people moreso on opiates. A lot of people in pain could be helped if not for the fact that kratom's alkaloids cannot be patented.

[ajm48786]

Swim hasn't seen anyone mention this; so, he wants to share it with you guys. Try mixing roughly 2-4 milligrams of Melatonin, the sleep hormone sold over the counter, look it up if you're unaware of it; it's very safe. It's the stuff our brains secrete when it's dark that makes us feel tired.

Swim has mixed Melatonin with Kratom and WOW! Swim can't describe it; he thought he would go to sleep, but instead he laid and felt an almost psychedelic opioid trip/nod-off. Insane! Old memories came back he had forgotten, people from his childhood,names he forgot,etc; yet the opioid feeling was there as well.

Since Swim has acquired quite a tolerance to Kratom, the effect is no longer as pronounced; but, for at least 3 months, it was the same thing every night. Melatonin interacts with Kratom and the results are very pleasurable for Swim. (Melatonin also is released during an LSD trip and other psychedelic drugs,Swim thinks since Kratom is closely related to Psychedelics, that is why there is an interaction between the two).

Swim recommends your friends start with a low dose of Melatonin, perhaps 1 1/2 MG. That stuff also really does put you to sleep and gives you CRAZY dreams by itself (be forewarned, sometimes the dreams are vivid nightmares,at least for swim,not often though,usually enjoyable). Your friends will get a LOT of sleep if they mix Kratom and Melatonin, at least if their bodies react the same way Swim's has.

[Graduisic]

Originally Posted by ajm48786

Swim hasn't seen anyone mention this; so, he wants to share it with you guys. Try mixing roughly 2-4 milligrams of Melatonin, the sleep hormone sold over the counter, look it up if you're unaware of it; it's very safe. It's the stuff our brains secrete when it's dark that makes us feel tired.

Swim has mixed Melatonin with Kratom and WOW! Swim can't describe it; he thought he would go to sleep, but instead he laid and felt an almost psychedelic opioid trip/nod-off. Insane! Old memories came back he had forgotten, people from his childhood,names he forgot,etc; yet the opioid feeling was there as well.

Since Swim has acquired quite a tolerance to Kratom, the effect is no longer as pronounced; but, for at least 3 months, it was the same thing every night. Melatonin interacts with Kratom and the results are very pleasurable for Swim. (Melatonin also is released during an LSD trip and other psychedelic drugs,Swim thinks since Kratom is closely related to Psychedelics, that is why there is an interaction between the two).

Swim recommends your friends start with a low dose of Melatonin, perhaps 1 1/2 MG. That stuff also really does put you to sleep and gives you CRAZY dreams by itself (be forewarned, sometimes the dreams are vivid nightmares,at least for swim,not often though,usually enjoyable). Your friends will get a LOT of sleep if they mix Kratom and Melatonin, at least if their bodies react the same way Swim's has.

Perfect experiment for the evening swim is sipping on some kratom tea right now, but later, he will brew up another batch in combo with melatonin and compare the two experiences

[ajm48786]

Originally Posted by Graduisic

Perfect experiment for the evening swim is sipping on some kratom tea right now, but later, he will brew up another batch in combo with melatonin and compare the two experiences

Let Swim know about swiy's experience please, he is curious to see if others find the same result. He hopes it helps Swiy's kratom experiences as it enhances his. Cheers!

[twindaddy]

swim heard about taking tagamet(cimetidine tablets) 1/2 hour before consuming kratom swim tried it and it does seem to lengthen any peak that would be gotten from the dose though maybe swim is just being hopeful swim does not know the exact science of why cimetidine tablets would do anything he read it online had some in the bathroom cabinet and thought" what the hell" 1/2 hour later he swished and swallowed a couple grams of uei 15 minutes after that , that calm relaxed energy took hold and carried swim thru the rest of his day. swim does believe the cimetidine extended this perfect feeling, swim has also tried ginger and finds ginger to be a great herb, swim plans to try meletonin it makes sense that this could enhance a kratom ride, swim supposes chamomile,valarian,passionflower, and skullcap could help the sedative side of kratom also.

[nate81]

swims best experiences with kratom have been with a combination of extract and whole leaf. bali leaf with some kratom tincture to tip the scales in swims favor. swim guesses the small amount of alcohol helps.

[whitedog]

swim has melotonin and will atempt this as well.

But arent there full spectrum extracts that are meant to be the same as all the alkaloids extracted into one?