Netherlands - Holland bans Magic Mushrooms

[Alfa]

There are stacks of research studies concluding that there is extremely low risk to magic mushroom use.
Since Dutch Parliament has demanded the ban of magic mushrooms, the ministry of health has ordered a new study which will advise which way to go.

[Tamadragon]

oh i agree. but i'm not espousing neo-conservative ideals. i just don't believe that kids can handle the drugs. it would be a waste on their tiny minds. you need to be a bit responsible first right? it's like having kids. who in their right mind would think it's o.k for children to have babies? not me.
see i think that adults have the right to put whatever they want in their bodies. but children don't have that right. they arn't informed enough on the dangers, risks, etc. they can't handle it. they need to just be kids and learn, grow up a bit. then when they are adults, they can launch into it. knock themselves out. but they need to know what they are getting themselves into. they need to know the risks, the rewards. they need to know how special and spiritual it is. it's not some, "hey lets drop acid and get high then do stupid stuff" what the hell.
that's why a harm reduction education program would be important.
i'm all for liberalization of drug laws. but i draw the line at children. if they can't vote, they shouldn't drop drugs either. drugs like voting, require a level of maturity. it's not something you take to lightly. sure it's fun etc. but so is drinking and driving. until you kill yourself, or your passenger, some bystander. see what i mean? there's a reason why kids arn't allowed to drink alcohol underage. sure it doesn't stop them but that's more to do with the failure of society and parents. there's just nothing for kids to do besides drink. which is sad. but the real problem isn't the drinking. it's be binge drinking. see they push it to the limit and some die in the process. that's harsh. kids have probably drunk alcohol ever since it was "discovered", but it seems that only in the last thirty or so years that kids drink themselves to death. it's just plain wrong. why do they bother? to be buzzed is one thing. but to be shitfaced near death is just plain stupid. they should be ashamed of themselves.
don't get me wrong, i'm not a Puritan. i just don't see why children should be allowed to expose themselves to thing that they can't handle.
hell i know a few adults that shouldn't be doing drugs. why? they do too much. it becomes pointless. abuse. that doesn't sound like fun to me.
they do it in front of their children. they do it with their children. they drive and drug. they do stupid things. in trouble with the law. they are greedy and encourage greedy ppl to sell drugs, thereby cheapening the drug. it all becomes scummy.
they are pigs, quite frankly.
is that what you want?
i sure the hell don't.

anyway. on topic, i hope the laws don't change in the Netherlands.

correct me if i'm wrong but i was under the impression that the Netherlands discourged ppl from traveling over there to buy drugs. ie there were some probleme with germans traveling over to buy hash from the head shops. was that ever resolved or was it never addressed by anyone?

i wounder if the laws change there, will spores become rare then? because i was under the impression that a vast number of spore venders got their spores legally from the Netherlands. ie it was like a spore reserve for fresh spore stock. due mainly that ppl could grow the mush there legally. has that changed or will it change with new laws, if they are passed?

anyone know?

[stoneinfocus]

I agree with your opinion on children, and I think this age related issue would handle itself automatically:

If children are not aware of drugs and don´t know of them, then keep em away, don´t tell ... if they get a clue on drugs and are in the state of mind of using and getting them (most likely the first contact to alcohol around here is woth 9-12 years), educate.

I was somewhat shocked, that you were drawing the line at 18 years of age, which is absolutely futile to uphold in reality and would do more damage, than the before proposed mechanism.

I irecall some native rites where the first intoxication rites are at the age of 10-13 years.

[jaffacake]

I've always liked the idea of a license to take certain drugs. If you want to take psychedelics then you have to go on a 2-4 week course giving you an idea of what might happen to you, then you take a test to get a license.

This would stop stupid kids taking drugs they can't handle on the spur of the moment and ruining it for the rest of us.

[RedBaron]

That is really unfortunate what happened to that girl but the measures being taken against it seem really extreme. I mean in 13 years, only two people died while in the midst of a high. Lets compare those numbers to someone whose been killed under the influence of alcohol and then it will just make this all seem stupid. Accidents happen everyday high or not. It's just shitty that the media/government always have to blow things out of proportion and demonize drugs any way they can. Mushrooms can give people powerful insight to change their life and lose the egomania that so many of us had or have. Again, its a shame what happened to that girl....but it also sucks that one person could ruin it for all the rest of us!

[Skeptikon]

I'm reminded of the immortal Bill Hicks:

"Bill Hicks: You never see a positive drugs story on the news, do ya?

No. Always negative. But the news is supposed to be objective. I mean, isn't it supposed to be THE NEWS? But every drug story is negative? I've had some killer times on drugs! I'm not promoting it, but I'm not denying it.

Same LSD story every time: "Young man on acid, thought he could fly jumped out of a building, what a tragedy." What a dick! He's an idiot. If he thought he could fly, why didn't he take off from the ground and check it out first? What a moron. We lost a moron. WE LOST A MORON!!! I don't mean to sound cold or cruel or vicious, but I am so that's the way it comes out. Professional help is being sought.

But wouldn't you like to see a positive LSD story? Would that be newsworthy? To base your decision on information rather than scare tactics and superstition and lies? Just once, to hear what it's all about:

Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves.

Here's Tom with the weather! "

[Beeker]

I'm with Aldous Huxley with all entheogens - regulated and you've got to put your dues in before you can jump in the deep in of that pool. You gotta crawl before you walk ... let alone run IMHO.

[FatBob]

I'm sorry but I don't really have much sympathy for the girl. She shouldn't have taken a hallucinogenic drug in a dangerous place or without other people. I could go and balance on the edge of a bridge then down a bottle of vodka. Would they ban alcohol because of my stupidity?

[schwing]

Err why does my link not work... anyway if anyone's interested in checking out the link just search "health & addiction statistics canada" and go to the CCSA website. Sorry about that.

[schwing]

I have to agree with lulz on the age-restriction or some kind of regulation in using psychedelics. This is going to be a gross generalization but here goes: kids (by my arbitrary definition people younger than age of 18--20 in some cases) are often still in their formativie stages of life and are not always psychologically prepared to handle potentially dangerous situations, such as using potent psychedelics in unsafe environments. I think at the very least first time/younger users should be forced to have at least a guardian or an experienced user who will be responsible for the session.

Having that said, I know that there are plenty of underage drinkers who never get into trouble and adults who drink under influence of pot/alcohol or overdose.

It's silly to simply ban a substance based on rare tragic cases. By frequency of abuse and dependence, nothing tops alcohol (in Canada anyway: http://www.ccsa.ca/CCSA/EN/Statistic...tatistics.htm). Will it ever be banned? No, not because it's not dangerous but because most people don't even consider it to be a "drug" (can't remember where I saw this stats... anyone?). The relatively safer drugs and not just the mushrooms, I think should be regulated at the same or similar level as alcohol. The benefits will be lower cost of purchase, safer/standardized contents of chemicals (hopefully), and general openness of attitude which will lead to people becoming more educated and being willing to seek guidance should they need it. The cons will be that these substances won't be as cool to use anymore because now they're not explicitly illegal. Ok I just realized that I'm talking more about situation in Canada and I might be getting slightly off-topic.

The parents of the 17 year-old girl should be ashamed and be held accountable for the death of their daughter. Seriously, if their teenage child is using mind-altering substances and they're not making sure that she's using it safely/in a safe environment, who's to blame? If that's not irresponsible parenting I don't know what is. Nil sympathy from me.

[INSANEPOOKIE]

This was already noted but SWIM felt like typing up a response as well.

The FIRST thing that pops into SWIMs mind is the comparison of deaths caused of booze and cigarettes vs shrooms. The illogic of even thinking of a ban due to one death or even a few seems completely moronic when violence and death enducing booze is legal. This is the faulty human mind of the general masses and political BS that dominates our silly planet. It's a bit disgusting.

Heck, it's great that the female killed herself. One less idiot. Perhaps this is an indicator revealing the horrid genetic material passed on from parents, creating the weak minded human.

[lemon3k]

i think its ridiculus, look at how many alcohol people die of alcohol through being too drunk, mushrooms like all drugs are safe if taken correctly and occasionaly

[Alfa]

It is funny. Last week a guy jumped off a simular bridge, under the influence of alcohol. But this has no effect.

[Jonny8888]

There is definatly need for tigher regulation and more information on dosage to be given out on purchase.

I think banning is bad move though. If anything it just encourages people to pick there own, which would be far more dangerous for someone who doesnt know what they are doing.

Hopefully the dutch government will see sense. I wish the british government could!

[Jonny8888]

Anyone got an update on this? Are they actually banned yet? Been googling but couldnt find much

[Alfa]

There is no news yet.

[Alfa]

*Mushrooms: only for 18 years and older*

Minister Klink of Public Health considers measures to limit the sale of magic mushrooms. "Prohibition would be a disaster"

Rotterdam 17 July

Since mid June, minister Ab Klink (Public Health, CDA) is studying on a report on the risks of magic mushrooms. The meaning is, according to his spokesperson, to decide even this week if the sale should be limited, or entirely banned. Sources close to the Minister consider the possibilty of a total ban as "very unlikely". The establishment of an age limit seems to be more obvious.

The report is produced by the Coordination Unit Assessment and Monitoring (CAM), that resides under the National Institute for Public Health and Environment (RIVM), including among others the Municipal Health Service (GGD) of Amsterdam. In the past years, this service reported a increase in bad trips after consuming hallucnogenic mushrooms. And almost every time the cases involve foreign tourists, in more than 90 % of the 120 cases. The GGD rsearcher concluded that especially the information given to tourists, many of them first time users, should be improved.

If minister Klink wants to limit the sale of mushrooms, the measure should be the increase of the age limit to 18 years. According to figures of the Trimbos-institute that deals with addiction care, the number of regular mushroom users between 12 and 19 can be estimated at 15.000 boys and 3.000 girls. The question if they had ever used mushrooms was answered affirmatively by 45.000 boys.

The minister can also limit the number of smartshops. He made this suggestion himself last month when responding to questions of the VVD MP Fred Teeven, who is in favour of a complete ban on magic mushrooms.

The death of a 17 year old French girl who jumped from a bridge in Amsterdam in March of this year after consuming mushrooms, brought the drug to the attention of the the parliament. The incident led to a motion approved by a parliament majority to prohibit fresh mushrooms.
The fractions of CDA, VVD, CU and PVV repeatede that point of view yesterday after it was made public that a French tourist in Amsterdam had killed his dog "under the influence of mushrooms". Later an investigation by a GGD psychiatrist revealed that his act had probably nothing to to do with the use of mushrooms.

The dried variety of the mushrooms falls under the opium law and is prohibited too. Also the m,anufacturing of mushrooms in products is not allowed. The city government of Amsterdam closed twosmartshops one week ago as the opium law was violated there. In the shops, there were bags with dried mushrooms which contained the prohibited substance psilocine.
In March, two other Amsterdam smartshops were closed by authorities.

The GGD advises to limit the sale of mushrooms as much as possible to the 8 existing smartshops in town and ban dried or manufactured mushrooms. In the shops, more information in various languages should be given about dosage and risks. Besides, the GGD appeals to the commercial sector to limit the sale to tourists to one box (ca. 35 grammes so-called Mexican mushrooms or their equivalent) per two people.

Paul G. van Oyen of the National Coalition of Smartshops (VLOS) supports the recommendations of the GGD. "We do not want to have anything to do with dried mushrooms or products that have mushrooms included. We believe the sael of fresh mushrooms should become more professional but should not be banned. That would be a disaster. The whole commercial circuit would become illegal. As a consequence, the number of incidents would surely increase.”


Roel Kersemakers of Jellinek, the agency for addiction care in Amsterdam, concludes that there are seldom any problems with consuming mushrooms. „Mushrooms are not addictive. The people who feel bad are often those who come to Amsterdam with the purpose of having a trip.
Many complaints are the consequence of mixing mushrooms with other substances. Especially the combination with alcohol can cause problems.”

NRC Handelsblad, 2007.07.17, Harm van den Berg en Vincent Bongers

[Jonny8888]

hooo rah!

[Jonny8888]

screw the media lol, keep em legal!!

[Alfa]

The media pressure to ban magic mushrooms is enormous atm and can be compared with the media pressure that went on in Ireland when magic mushrooms got banned.

[Alfa]

That most likely will become known on friday.

[Jonny8888]

It would be very unfortunate if the dutch government were to ban them. Hopefully they will not bow to media pressure and make the decision based on the facts!

[Alfa]

Problem is that the media pressure is caused by the Justice department to pressure the Health department.

[Jonny8888]

Yes, ofcourse, there is always pressure from those services. But lets be honest, aslong as they are sold responsibly to responsible people then there is not a problem. Personalkly i think mushrooms are one of the safests drugs to do. GB and ireland did ban them, but it would be nice to see a government make a decision based on facts rather than pressure.

[Heretic.Ape.]

a government make a decision based on facts rather than pressure.

I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad. That is absolutely not the nature of governments in any way, shape or form.