Pholcodine dosages.

[kakakaka]

Hey, swim was thinking of trying some DXM this weekend and has found that a certian bottle of medicine has 50mg/20ml compaired to 25~30mg/20ml that most other bottles have in the UK (from this certain major supermarket). The only problem is that the first bottle with the higher concentration contains 15mg/20ml of Pholcodine.

Erowid pulls up nothing for this in terms of dosages but found this on Wiki. ''Pholcodine is a modified opiate cough suppressent (antitussive) that acts primarily on the central nervous system (CNS) causing depression of the cough reflex'

Anyone have any knowledge on this and how much is safe or should swim just grab a bottle with dextromethorphan only as it seems well suggested not to take any other type of cough suppresant.


Thanks again
Swim

[Handle]

Hey, look, all the drug companies always say that their new drug is 'nonaddictive' or has no 'opiate like effects' they did it with vicodin, oxycontin, pethidine even heroin back in the day. They always say that its less habit forming, no abuse potential etc. etc. but seriously, what about pholcodine? I have heard it has absolutely no effects. Could this be true?

[Paracelsus]

Don't. Pholcodine is an opioid by structure. May have some typical effects in high doses. I wouldn't try it. And it's not DXM. Moved.

[kakakaka]

Ahh ok cheers, swim will just have to find a higher consentration of DXM in another label.

[Handle]

Hey, paracelsus, what does 'moved' mean? And just quickly have you ever heard of people [or anyone] getting high off pholcodine [not DXM type high, codeine type high].
Just curious.

[Paracelsus]

'Moved' means moving a thread from one forum (DXM) to another (Opiates & Opioids) - your thread belonged into the latter forum. I've never heard of people getting high on pholcodine.

[Henfer]

oh just don't bother with Pholcodine. SWIM was on vacation in a country where pholcodine is OTC, bought 2 bottles a 20 pills and ate 30 Pills at once (one pill is 10mg) which is 300mg, and had absolutely no opioid effects. pholcodine is processed to morphine in vivo, however, only at the rate of 1%.

[Handle]

Oh, o.k., thanks. It was just out of curiosity. That would explain why there is basically nothing on it anywhere on any of these sites.
Pholcodine is otc here in Australia too, but SWIM never wanted to try it because pure dihydrocodeine syrup is also available, and that never let SWIM down [even in times of great distress].

[Henfer]

yep, in this context, pholcodine is a lot like dextrometorphane or loperamide. technically it is an opioid, but it only has some structural similarities and only very specific opioid qualities (pholcodine only has a weak cough stopping quality and, in very large dosages, depresses breathing).

[Tortoise]

Originally Posted by Handle

Oh, o.k., thanks. It was just out of curiosity. That would explain why there is basically nothing on it anywhere on any of these sites.
Pholcodine is otc here in Australia too, but SWIM never wanted to try it because pure dihydrocodeine syrup is also available, and that never let SWIM down [even in times of great distress].

Wha? Pure dihydrocodeine? Are you certain, 'cause Swim's never come across it. I'm sure he'd like to though!

[Handle]

Ah, well, there are two ways to interpret this statement.
Yes, Aus. has a syrup with pure dihydro and no other ACTIVE ingred, but it of course has sorbitol, sweets, benzoate preservatives etc. But no other active stuff.
It's called RIKODEINE. It's S3, OTC [no script] but behind the counter. But beware, although dihydro is 1-1.5 times the strength o' codeine, the syrup can cause terrible cramps and stuff from the sorbitol. Think violent stomach upset, with, well, you know [not vomiting!].
Anyway, there are good tips online about how to clean up DXM syrups and get DXM base or whatnot.
Basically, as its a salt, wash the syrup with shaking in a coke bottle with a layer o' zippo fluid on top. This done thrice, it removes some shit from the syrup, but because the dihydro is a salt, it won't follow. Decant the zippo layers using a separating device. Keep the syrup layer below. Then slowly add strongish caustic soda solution to a watered down sol'n of the zippo cleaned syrup, cloudiness should appear, keep drippin' in the caustic soda and alternate with swirling, the cloudiness will form, but with swirling it will disperse. Continue process until the addition of more soda drops do not elicit more cloudiness. Then shake really vigorously for five minutes with new zippo layer. Now the dihydro should be in the zippo layer, separate, but this time keep the zippo. If evaporated now, you will get alkaloid base with gunk, like propylene glycol and some sorbitol.If you want a better purity, keep the drugged up zippo solution and
a) Shake again but this time with strong citric acid solution, thus drawing the drug into a citrate salt, then discard zippo. Supposedly, you can then drink this solution, called "agent lemon" but since I never thought it up, I think it's shit, because who knows how much excess acid you would be ingesting?
or b) Shake with hydrochloric acid until hydrochloride salt is formed, then discard the zippo. Then, do the caustic soda thing again and push the freebase out again into a new, clean zippo layer. This cleaner zippo will contain a purer freebase, so separate again, keep the zippo, which can be evaporated and will leave a much purer freebase the second time, compared to the dirty mix that would come straight out of the syrup, I imagine that gunk would be nasty.
Plan B I think is better, because when you make the hydrochloride salt, all that nasty stuff in the zippo oil should be left behind, and any that follows will again face the obstacle of another soda/lighter fluid reversal back to again form freebase.

WARNINGS
I have ripped this idea off others
2 It was designed for DXM, and since opiates have unusual solubility properties/issues, who knows if it carries on to work seamlessly for dihydro as well.
3 I do not know the appropriate strengths of either soda or hydrochloric acid, so this could go wrong and/or be dangerous.