Long Term Effects of MS/Oxy

[Archenemy]

SWIM has been using Opiates for a while now. SWIM is not going down the shitter due to addiction. SWIM continues to receive good grades (A-B) and has held the same job for 2 years. SWIM is not in debt... however SWIM was wondering if to much Morphine Sulfate or Oxycodone is extremly damaging. SWIM is taking in upwards of 250mg of Morphine Sulfate per sitting and around 160mg of Oxycodone per sitting. SWIM will crush these tablets and ingest them orally.
SWIM wants to know what the long term effects of doing this would be... none of the medication SWIM ingests contain APAP.

[sarbanes]

Yes, they will cause brain damage in the long run. Just how significant the damage is, is up to debate, but long term use of common 'old, garden variety Morphine Sulphate will result in brain damage. If someone truly reads and understands the best of the latest research, it may seem that although changes do occur, they are largely (essentially) reversed upon long term abstinence and overall healthy lifestyle. So, if your rat is worried, perhaps he will go off the pain pills for a bit and slowly taper, start to work out and use his noodle and read more, and develops a more sane habit (once-2wice/week). That way rat's noodle remains essentially unscathed. And rat needs the unscathed noodle to truly enjoy opioids (&MDMA also, as a matter of fact). The damaged brain is directly related to rats ability to have his drugs feel as good as they did in the very early days, so there will be3 real benefit to rats brain, and rat's ability to experience pleasure as well!
http://www.nature.com/bjp/journal/v1.../0704364a.html
http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/...ract/83/6/1298

Reputation Comments on this post:

Interesting Info

[megafreakindeth]

psychological harm as well can be had, im not a doctor in any way but i do deal with people who dose that high. their ability to distort reality is amazing in order to protect (only)themselves from the existance of their addiction. for doses as high as youre taking id deffinatly have a friend help you slow down but some form of drug program will probably be needed. i dont think jumping right into rehab is the greatest thing because of the way they treat you but if you cant do it on your own then its a good idea to get help.

i personlly enjoy small doses and maintain a low tolerance.

[merc11292]

I believe Rush Limbaugh suffered hearing loss from abusing Oxycodone and hydrocodone, i dont think theres any research on it though. I think all brain changes from opiates can be reversed as mentioned by sarbanes. Long term use i was told can cause joint problems apparently opiates do something to the fluid in joints.

[beentheredonethatagain]

Originally Posted by merc11292

I believe Rush Limbaugh suffered hearing loss from abusing Oxycodone and hydrocodone, i dont think theres any research on it though. I think all brain changes from opiates can be reversed as mentioned by sarbanes. Long term use i was told can cause joint problems apparently opiates do something to the fluid in joints.

Is this based on any facts? just wondering, if it is true then all oxy and ms users are at risk of hearing loss aswell, and that wouldnt be good.

Reputation Comments on this post:

you think?

[sarbanes]

sry for my long winded reply above. esentially its only hydrocodone w/ apap which causes the hearing loss for some reason(s). but long term opioid use like your saying will cause changes. you'll get all burnt out with some memory loss and generally burnt and crispy, and will have bad feelings and what feels like a hangover of your soul. when you stop using the symptoms largely clear themselves up, but it takes a while of abstinence to really get all the kinks out. so esentially (to me), yes, causes extreme burnout used leik that, but quitting reverses all that mostly. haha quitting easier said than done!

[jerbles]

swij kind of doubts it...

[merc11292]

I dont think its a fact, i remember reading that his hearing loss was due to oxycodone but as far as i know theres not any solid proof on it.


i found this online though
In 2001, Limbaugh announced on his radio program that he had been losing his hearing, and was "almost completely deaf." He then had a cochlear implant installed in his left ear, and said that his hearing was mostly restored. In 2003, responding to published reports that he was under investigation for purchasing illegal drugs, he announced that he had become addicted to prescription opiates such as oxycodone as a result of long-term back pain. Oxycodone is marketed under such familiar brand names as Percodan, Percocet, and OxyContin, and hearing loss is a well-established side effect of oxycodone addiction.

[jerbles]

pharmaceutical grade opiates are supposedly completely harmless (ei 100% pure diamorphine/hydromorphone etc), but every drug has some negative side effects, whether they're long term or not.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Being that morphine is an endogenous opiate(actually made by the humanbody)swim really doubts it will cause too much damage.As far as oxycodone goes swim isn't sure.Swim has never heard of it causing hearing loss.Thats interesting.

[chronicpain247]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

Being that morphine is an endogenous opiate(actually made by the humanbody)swim really doubts it will cause too much damage.As far as oxycodone goes swim isn't sure.Swim has never heard of it causing hearing loss.Thats interesting.

swim not positive but doesn't think it is exactly morphine that is made by the human brain, something similar but not the same exact chemical, so as far as the hearing loss being associated with morphine, the brain making a similar chemical doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Swim is interested in hearing more about this hearing loss thing, he has heard both sides argued so far. Think he will ask his PM doc this month and see what that prick has to say, probly some smart ass remark about "not unless you abuse it, do you?!!" swims PM doc is an asshole, fucking legal drug dealers got us by the balls and they know it! anyway sorry for getting off topic

[Club Head]

Originally Posted by chronicpain247

swim not positive but doesn't think it is exactly morphine that is made by the human brain, something similar but not the same exact chemical, so as far as the hearing loss being associated with morphine, the brain making a similar chemical doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Swim is interested in hearing more about this hearing loss thing, he has heard both sides argued so far. Think he will ask his PM doc this month and see what that prick has to say, probly some smart ass remark about "not unless you abuse it, do you?!!" swims PM doc is an asshole, fucking legal drug dealers got us by the balls and they know it! anyway sorry for getting off topic

correct the human body produces "endorphines" which is similar to morphine and excreted by the endocrine system in small amounts and in greater amounts in times of injury or other troubles in order to temporarily deal with the situation in order to survive. But swim has always wondered...can a laboratory synthesise endorphines? Would they be as pleasureable as Heroine, opium, oxycodone or any of the opioid derivatives? Would they be more medically sound and the #1 question, would they be addictive? Probably so because they would cause the body to stop producing its own endorphines, which would precipitate withdrawals. But back to my main query, can we synthesise endorphines?

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

Being that morphine is an endogenous opiate(actually made by the humanbody)swim really doubts it will cause too much damage.As far as oxycodone goes swim isn't sure.Swim has never heard of it causing hearing loss.Thats interesting.

morphine cannot be considered to be endogenous the amount of natural morphine found in the human body is extremely negligable at best. if one is refering to endomorphin (the endogenous endorphin most similar to morphine) then one would be correct.

there was a case of one guy conscripted as a doctor when he was just 19 years old, barely what we would call an intern or studier of medicine. this guy went through the 1st and 2nd world wars as a morphine / heroin addict and continued to prescribe himself both diacetylmorphine and morphine and died at the ripe old age of 93 with no apparent harm to mind or body.

Heroin is completely harmless to the body and mind itself (except for mental dangers which go with any drug) however, it is the adulterants which heroin is cut with which end up killing the body.

One believes morphine to be the same, especially hospital grade morphine.

Hope this has been of help, pls correct one if he is wrong. one always likes to read good substantiated info.

[Lehendakari]

There is BBC documetary, posted in the archive I think, titled if drugs were legal, they explain that if heroin is administred within medical conditions ie purity of drug, hygiene
mesures it was relatively harmless.

[Archenemy]

As far as the Alkoloid Morphine goes... here is what I understand.

Morphine acts predominantly with the Mu opioid receptors in the human brain. The receptors are spread about through the brain. Regions with high densities include the posterior amygdala, hypothalamus, thalamus, nucleus caudatus, and putamen. There are also regions in certain cortical areas. In the spinal cord the Mu receptors are found on the terminal axions of primary afferents within laminae I and II and in the spinal nucleus of the trigeminal nerve.
Morphine is known as a phenanthrene opioid receptor agonist - It maily binds to and activates the Mu opioid receptor in the Central Nervous System (CNS). In addition to binding with and activating the Mu opioid receptor, Morphine also binds to and activates Delta and Kappa opioid receptors. Kappa opioid receptors are responsible for spinal analgesia, miosis or "pinpoint" pupils and psychotomimetic (action that mimics the actions of psychosis: to include delusions and/or hallucinations) effects.
In the human body Morphine is metabolized into Morphine-3-Glucuronide (M3G) and Morphine-6-Glucuronide (M6G) via glucuronidation by phase II metabolism enzyme UDP-glucuronosyl transferase-2B7 (UGT2B7). The phase I metabolism cytochrome P450 (CYP) also plays a role in metabolization but to a lesser extent. Metabolism of Morphine takes place not only in the liver, but also in the kidneys and brain.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by Archenemy

SWIM wants to know what the long term effects of doing this would be... none of the medication SWIM ingests contain APAP.

Eventually? Painful physical withdrawals and one of the most extreme mental cravings SWIY will ever experience.

Opiate/opioid users have the hghest rate of relapse out of ALL drug users.

[Archenemy]

Continued:
As stated above, Morphine acts predominatly on Mu opioid receptors (MOR). These are opioid receptors with a high affinity for enkephalins and beta-endorphin, but with a low affinity for dynorphins. Opiate alkoloids know to bind to this receptor site include morphine and codeine.
In the human body there are three (3) known variants of the Mu opioid receptor (Mu1 Mu2 Mu3). More is know about the Mu1 Receptor site then any other. Little is know about the Mu2 receptor site. TRIMU-5 is a selective agonist of the Mu2 receptor site.
Little is know about the Mu3 Receptor site, which was discovered in 2003 to be responsive towards opiate alkaloids but not opiate peptides.

These receptors can exist both presynaptically or postsynaptically in the human body depending on the cell types. The Mu receptor exists mostly presynaptically in the periaqueductal gray region, and in the superficial dorsal horn of the spinal cord (specifically the substantia gelatinosa of rolando). The Mu receptor has also been located in varois portions of the body to include; external plexiform layer of the olfactory
bulb, the nucleus accumbens, in several layers of the cerebral cortex and in some of the nuclei of the amygdala, as well as the nucleus of the solitary tract.

MOR can mediate acute changes in neuronal excitability via "disinhibition" of presynaptic release of Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid (GABA). However, chronic activation of MOR causes the collapse of dendritic spines via post-synaptic mechanisims. The physiological and pathological roles of these two distinct mechanisms are still subject to debate as there is no clear cut awnser. Some speculate that both might be involved in opioid addiction and opioid-induced deficits in cognition.
Activation of the Mu opoid receptor by an agonist such as morphine or diacetylmorphine
causes analgesia, sedation, reduced blood pressure, nausea, itching, decreased respiration, decreased bowel motility (which can lead to constipation), reduced heart rate, miosis, and euphoria. Studies indicate that as tolerance develops effects such as euphoria, sedation and reduced respiration tend to disapear while analgesia, miosis, and reduced bowel motility tend to persist becasue little tolerance develops to these effects. Tolerance develops to different effects at different rates mostly because these effects are caused by activation of different Mu-receptor subtypes. Activation of Mu1 receptors causes analgesia while activation of Mu2 receptors causes respritory depression and constipation.

Opioid receptors are a group of G-protein coupled receptors with opioids as ligands. The endogenousopioids are dynorphins, enkephalins, endorphins, endomorphins and nociceptin/orphanin FQ. The opioid receptors are ~40% identical to somatostatinreceptors (SSTRs).

Sigma receptors (σ) were once considered to be opioid receptors, but are not usually currently classified as such.
The receptors were named using the first letter of the first ligand that was found to bind to them. Morphinewas the first chemical shown to bind to mu receptors. The first letter of the drug morphine is `m', but in biochemistry there is a tendency to use Greek letters, thus turning the 'm' to μ. Similarly a drug known as ketocyclazocine was first shown to attach itself to kappa receptors.
The opioid receptor types are ~70% identical with differences located at N and C termini. The μ receptor (the μ represents morphine) is perhaps the most important. It is thought that the G protein binds to the third intracellular loop of the opioid receptors. Both in mice and humans the genes for the various receptor subtypes are located on different chromosomes.
Separate subtypes have been identified in human tissue. Research has so far failed to identify the genetic evidence of the subtypes, and it is thought that they arise from post-translational modification of cloned receptor types.
An additional opioid receptor has been identified and cloned based on homology with the cDNA. This receptor is known as the nociceptin receptor or ORL 1 receptor.
An IUPHAR (International Union of Pharmacology) subcommittee has recommended that appropriate terminology for the 3 classical (μ, δ, κ) receptors, and the non-classical (nociceptin) receptor, should be MOP, DOP, KOP and NOP respectively.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good addition

[Archenemy]

Ever since SWIM posted this Question as his first post, he only knew a little about how Opioids worked in the body. Since then SWIM has been researching like mad, and is eager to learn as much as possible!

[rocksmokinmachine]

Originally Posted by Archenemy

Ever since SWIM posted this Question as his first post, he only knew a little about how Opioids worked in the body. Since then SWIM has been researching like mad, and is eager to learn as much as possible!

SWIM has been down exactly the same route. An opiod addiction is something SWIY does not want. I'm sure alot of forum members would agree that for most, opiates do not remain recreational for long.

[0utrider]

SWIM read something related to parkinson
and also related to neurotoxicity (which occured just slighty over a longtime), it was some kind of studie, he cant find it right now, but will look for it.

[samuraigecko]

Most of the above information is correct about opiates and how they work in the body but a few things have been missed. there are many more opiate receptors than just the 3 mu-opioid receptors. take a quick scan of wiki (which ppl obviously already have) and SWIyou will see what one means.

Here is the low down tho . . . . excluding the obvious opiate addiction and WD symptoms etc.
4 lab monkeys.
4 substances.

monkey 1] substance 1: Pure Heroin

No trouble what so ever if his source remains pure except for troubles with his veins if he continues to give himself a shot in the same place over and over. He will die a very old and very happy monkey unless he is SO of his head on Heroin one time that he has some sort of accident.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monkey 2] Substance 2: Pure Morphine.

Same as above.
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Monkey 3] Substance 3: Street Heroin.

Monkey 3 will be happy for quite a while but will develop problems with his health due to the impurities in the street heroin itself. He has the potential to have kidney, liver, heart, brain, vein and artery problems, some of which will make themselves evident after prolonged use.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Money 4] Substance 4: Questionable Morphine.

By questionable one is meaning "was it extracted to be shot up from a MS tablet? did it come from a reliable source? has it been adulterated? etc.

Monkey 4 will almost certainly have a good time also but will eventually develop some problems with veins (especially is he has been extracting the morphine from MS tablets) and will probably be likely to have the same problems in the long term as monkey 3.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this has helped.

[TheMorphineMan]

Swim has always understood as a couple other posters have stated above; heroin and morphine are harmless in general, but with heroin there are the purity issues and with both is the issue of hygiene and proper technique when injecting. Obviously, the risk of overdose always looms, though with heroin worse.

[TheMorphineMan]

Although swim has had opiate tolerance before and it did not behave like this to his knowledge, opiate (and especially heroin) tolerance may be kind of fickle, for example dropping suddenly after one has been on a long binge. Swim may be mistaken, though.

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by TheMorphineMan

Although swim has had opiate tolerance before and it did not behave like this to his knowledge, opiate (and especially heroin) tolerance may be kind of fickle, for example dropping suddenly after one has been on a long binge. Swim may be mistaken, though.

No, SWIYou are not mistaken. Different opiates have different half lives. On the case of Heroin it has an extremely short half life thus making a sharp drop in tolerance a more than likely event in the majority of cases.

SWIyou hay have heard different stories similar to the following.

Dude is on H with a good gram a day habit.
Dude gets done for possession / another crime or for some other reason otherwise detained for a week or so,
Dude gets back to his life, grabs his normal dose, blasts off and OD's.

This is a common story unfortunately. SWIM has been involved with people whom have directly experienced this story personally. Some of which are no longer alive because of said story.

Hope this has been of help

[KillroyMindless]

ok if your taking the name brand of oxycodone called Oxycontin(srry SWIM know its spelt wrong) it has no cut in it and that much oxycodone can kill you because its time released witch means you dont get such a high does at once but when crushed you can get fatal amounts of ms conton(morhine) and oxycodone into your system. Its not a quick death SWIM have a family member whos liver shut down after a bottle he spent 2 days dying. be careful with those drugs because they are some of the strongest opioid pills SWIM ever messed with and SWIM regreting it. And even if your not mentaly addicted you are probably dependent on them from your high level doses. The thought of addiction had never come up(aside from SWIM friends trying to sober SWIM up)until SWIM went to school one day two days after SWIM last does and Blam SWIM got sick sweats, fever, lots of vomiting, latter that day SWIM pissed himself SWIM couldnt move cus of muscle pain.