research chemical forum protocol & structure. Your input please.

[Alfa]

When starting a drug info thread, please use the following format for the first post:

Originally Posted by trptamene

Please post info about 2C-T-2 here.

Can anyone add information about:

• names / synonyms
• molecule
• dose
• duration
• side effects
• legal status
• have there been any reported incidents with this compound?
• since when has this research chemical been available?
• stability of the molecule / compound

Experiences with 2C-T-2 should be posted here: 2C-T-2 experiences
These documents about 2C-T-2 are in the file archive
2C-T-2 pics
Research Chemicals Index - Tryptamines
Research Chemicals Index - Phenethylamines


Names: 2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethylthiophenethylamine, 2C-T-2,
IUPAC: 2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethylthiobenzenethanamine

When starting a experiences thread, please use the following format for the first post:

Originally Posted by mushroom-man

Please add your experiences with DOC here. Please add dosage, route and duration to the top of your post like this:

When posting a experience, please describe:

• body weight & gender
• dose taken
• route of administration
• Setting: in what environment it was taken.
• duration of main effects
• main effects
• side effects
• after effects
• rating of the experience
• addictive qualities / abuse potential
• any other valuable information

Info about this drug (other than experiences) should be discussed here:
Drug info - DOC

These documents about DOC are in the file archive
DOC Pics
Research Chemicals Index - Phenethylamines
Research Chemicals Index - Tryptamines

The research chemical forums will undergo quite some cleaning and improving in the coming time. I need your input to decide on some things for the structure of the research chemical forums and their functions.

For starters I'd like to know this:
Every research chemical discussed should at least have two threads:
- a 'experiences' thread
- a 'drug info' thread

What information should a experiences thread at least contain? So far I have come up with:

• body weight & gender
• dose taken
• route of administration
• duration of main effects
• main effects
• side effects
• after effects
• rating of the experience
• addictive qualities / abuse potential

What information should a drug info thread at least contain? So far I have come up with:

• names / synonyms
• molecule
• dose
• duration
• side effects
• have there been any reported incidents with this compound?
• since when has this research chemical been available?
• legal status
• stability of the molecule / compound

Anything else?

[dr ACE]

you could add - 'abuse potenial/tolarance' to the 'experience thread'

the effects could be split in 3/4 parts - positive,negative,neutral,life changing?

[joachimist]

for the experience thread, you may add :

• context ( indoor / outdoor / party / alone / with friends / day / night ... )

• combination with other drugs (including treatment, alcohol, cannabis, everything )

• maybe a general overview / classification of the effects :
  for exemple a yes or no, or a poll, or a notation /10 for each of typical effect :

. closed eyes visuals
. color changes
. visual deformation
. open eye visual
. empathogen
. entactogen
. entheogen
. anxiogen
. stimulant
. depressive
. sedative
. dissociative
. tachycardiogen
etc....

• the same can be done with long time effects like :

. psychologicaly addictive
. physicaly addictive
. tolerance
. various health problems

_________________________________________

For the drug info thread, maybe add

• 2D and/or 3D molecular representation
• legal status in various countries

Reputation Comments on this post:

good suggestions

[chrisn]

I would suggest perhaps three threads:
experiences
general info
effects and ratings survey, ongoing, like what illuminati_boy did back in the day

[Alfa]

I have added weight and gender to experience threads and I have updated the OP with the suggestions of Dr.Ace and Joachimist.

Chris; you know what I am up to...

[Nagognog2]

Do keep in mind the chemistry regards it's (the RC in question) relatives. eg: phenethylamine (mescaline derivative), tryptamine (indole-class), or piperazine structure.

[Alfa]

I have updated post number 9.

[trptamene]

I think that looks really good. I would just add

"any other valuable information"

at the very end.

[trptamene]

On threads like this:

Drug info - 2c-c

where drug info threads have been created by you with just the pihkal entry, I think something like this:

Originally Posted by trptamene

Please post info about 2C-I here.

Can anyone add information about:

• names / synonyms
• molecule
• dose
• duration
• side effects
• have there been any reported incidents with this compound?
• since when has this research chemical been available?
• legal status
• stability of the molecule / compound

Experiences with 2C-I should be posted here: 2C-I experiences

Names: 4-iodo-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine, 2C-I
IUPAC: 2-[4-(iodo)-2,5-dimethoxyphenyl]ethanamine

should be added to the OP, along with the molecule which I have ready as a jpeg. Do you just want me to just make a post like this along with the molecules attached at the end of the thread and then let you take care of it since you are usually the OP in these threads?


EDIT:

Can an admin or mod please add the "experiences" prefix to the phenethylamines forum please.

[Alfa]

Yes, that would be helpful.
I added a experiences prefix.
I also added the following text to the drug info standard text:

The following documents about this substance are in the file archive: none yet.

Ideally this can be done like this:

These documents about 2C-T-7 are in the file archive

as this includes a search in the file archive on the word "2C-T-7". But if it is not clear to you how to do this, then never mind.

[trptamene]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Yes, that would be helpful.
I added a experiences prefix.
I also added the following text to the drug info standard text:

Ideally this can be done like this:
as this includes a search in the file archive on the word "ethylone". But if it is not clear to you how to do this, then never mind.

I have went ahead and added this to both the experience and drug info threads for the ones I have added recently. I do not see the experiences prefix in the phen's forum, does it take some time to update?

[Alfa]

oops. they are present now.

[grandbaby]

Should the "info" thread include an explicit questionnaire (maybe even a poll) that mimics Illuminati Boy's RC Evaluation questionnaires of last year? The continued gathering of that information might be of interest to someone who wishes to collate and interpret it in the future.

[Alfa]

Are you psychic?

BTW: it would also be a good idea, if those of you that have knowledge of the stability of compounds, would comment on this in the drug info threads. Unstable compounds may degrade fast / slow and may even degrade to illegal or toxic compounds. Therefore this is relevant information for the 'drug info' threads. I have added this for drug info threads:

• have there been any reported incidents with this compound?
• since when has this research chemical been available?
• stability of the molecule / compound

Thusfar mint boi and trptamene have been making molecules. trptamene and snapper are creating new threads per substance. This is great help. A lot needs to be done to get the research chemical forums on the level i want them to be.

trptamene: Using the syntaxt "the following documents about this substance are in the file archive: none yet" makes no sense when there are documents. Maybe it's best to use:

These documents about 2C-T-7 are in the file archive

[trptamene]

Originally Posted by Alfa

trptamene: Using the syntaxt "the following documents about this substance are in the file archive: none yet" makes no sense when there are documents. Maybe it's best to use:

Ahh yes, I figured some of these would have stuff in the archive, I was just trying to get threads made for the molecules I had made and was gonna go back and edit all these...but It does make sense to do it as I go along, so I will go back and edit these.

For chemicals that do have files in the archive, should I link every file in this type of fashion:

the following documents about this substance are in the file archive: EU Risk Assessment of 2C-T-7, Hallucinogen-Like Actions of 2C-T-7 in Mice an Rats (Fantegrossi et al, 2004) ....

Or simply just link the search in the manner you said?

Also, does this mean updating this post whenever an article that fits the RC is added. This is no problem, but seems like it might take a long time, but I guess if one were to just go through and do this monthly it might not be too bad.

[Alfa]

just the search link will do. This way we will not need to update the post with every new file.

[Alfa]

To avoid confusion over dosage and accidental intake of extreme doses, please put the example listing of dosage, route and duration in the experience threads in quotes like this:

Originally Posted by EXAMPLE

Dosage: 35 mg
Route: Orally
Duration: 4 hours

[trptamene]

Originally Posted by Alfa

To avoid confusion over dosage and accidental intake of extreme doses, please put the example listing of dosage, route and duration in the experience threads in quotes like this:

I will go back and try to update all of these, this is a good idea. Some poor nieve soul takes 35mg 2c-e we could have a prob on our hands.

[dr ACE]

Originally Posted by trptamene

I will go back and try to update all of these, this is a good idea. Some poor nieve soul takes 35mg 2c-e we could have a prob on our hands.

or the forum whould be one reasercher down, and the poor nieve soul porbably would'nt make it online for a while,or anything else for that matter

2C-E deserves allot of respect and if you don't it will kick you in the arse lol

don't think my pet monkey henry will venture into that realm of 'psycadelicness' for a long time., if ever again heavy duty shit!

[grandbaby]

Originally Posted by Alfa

To avoid confusion over dosage and accidental intake of extreme doses, please put the example listing of dosage, route and duration in the experience threads in quotes like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by EXAMPLE
Dosage: 35 mg
Route: Orally
Duration: 4 hours

Alfa, I noticed that you edited this post so the duration was listed as 4 hours. But by my reading of the TR, the duration was 8 hours from ingestion to baseline (still short for a big-sized double-dose of 4-AcO-DMT, by my reckoning, but ymmv I suppose). Did you mean duration of peak effects or of the entire experience?

I would suggest that we might want to ask researchers to post two durations: 1) duration of peak effects and 2) duration of entire experience. Heck, we could even ask them to post three additional stats: 1) time from ingestion to first onset, 2) time from first onset to peak, and 3) time from end of peak to baseline. These would be useful numbers to have. (And hey, if the will and the programming power existed, it would be a great idea IMO to include these numbers in an easy-to-use form that you'd fill out when you hit the [not yet in existence] "Create Trip Report" button. Such a measure might enforce a level of standardization of information that would prove extremely useful in the long run.)

[~lostgurl~]

The links to the documents in the archive should all be identical to the one below, with only the name of the research chemical contained in the link changed: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links_search.php?action=show&search=ethylone&keys=1&searchdate=0

Once you have the correct link you can rename it "File Archive Documents about [insert drug here]" Or whatever phrase you decide to use, as long as it is the same for all substances. The above phrase fits in with the current links for video & audio that are found in forum headers, so I personally think it is the best choice.

Note: The red is just to highlight the word that needs to replaced.

[trptamene]

Alfa:

In the pihkal/tihkal entries for the drug info dedicated threads I noticed you are not including the synthetic part. I realize the synthesis says nothing about the chemical other than how to get to it, but are threads containing these entries supposed to be drugs-forum archive of these books? If this is mean to be our archive of this work then the synthesis should probably be included.

[JDreaming]

It looks like you are off to a wonderful start, and some of the drug info / drug experiences threads make really useful compilations of data.

There are a couple of substances that seem to be missing still... most conspicuously from the tryptamines, DPT and DiPT do not yet have sections. I'd be willing to help with the writing of either one of them in any way that is needed.

My experience report at thread #39142 will need to be merged into the DiPT experiences thread. If you'd like I can make a list of the thread numbers of other DPT and DiPT trip report/information threads that are floating around on their own right now.

Edit: Went ahead and made a DiPT info thread, hope nobody minds. I'm working on a list of experiences.

[trptamene]

For consistency I think all newly created threads should have the same title format.

I have been putting:
Drug Info (prefix) - Drug name
Experiences (prefix) - Drug name experiences. (the experiences at the end looks redundant now..obviously it is experiences the prefix says so).

So I propose the simple format:
Drug Info (prefix) - Drug name
Experiences (prefix) - Drug name

i.e. maybe the methylone drug info thread should just be "drug info - methylone"? Just a thought.

Also, I feel this was missed so am highlighting it here:

Originally Posted by trptamene

Alfa:

In the pihkal/tihkal entries for the drug info dedicated threads I noticed you are not including the synthetic part. I realize the synthesis says nothing about the chemical other than how to get to it, but are threads containing these entries supposed to be drugs-forum archive of these books? If this is mean to be our archive of this work then the synthesis should probably be included.

Also, I think the link to the archive search should be incorporated in both the drug info and experience dedicated thread, not just one or the other. Personally, this is what I have been doing.

Also, with another member taking charge and making these threads along with Alfa and I, I feel we need to make sure everyone is on the same page as to what we are trying to accomplish here and incorporate into these threads. So these are things I have come up with that need clarification.

• Title Format - they need to be consistent.
• Links to the archive - should they be in both threads?
• Information wanted, this seems to be pretty much set, but I have seen some variability.
• Pihkal/Tihkal Entry - I feel the synthesis should be included in these if these threads are meant to be this sites record of the work done by Shulgin. Is this what we want?
• Pihkal/Tihkal Entry format - We should all use the same format. By this I mean bolding of the topics in the entry (comments, dose, etc), as well as spacing between the different parts.

Thoughts? (specifically from Alfa and JDreaming)

[Alfa]

I misread it. It should be 7 hours from first effects to the last. The time from intake until onset does not include any effects and should not be included in the duration of effects.

Time to onset, Time and Duration of peak effects are important, but do not need to be up there atm, as the more you ask, the less likely participation is. With a trip report function that will be easier.