DPT Stablility

[JackARoe]

I'm always hesitant to start new threads in a forum that I've only been reading on the last year. I have used the search engine and it works very well.

SWIM would like to know the stablility of DPT. Is this one of the tryptamines that could stay on a shelf for 100 years and retain it's potency or does it break down into anything inactive? It seems simple enough to be stable. SWIM knows that even some more complicated tryptamines (like 4-HO-MIPT) can retain potency for many years if stored in a cool dry place that doesn't necessarily include freezing. Phens being very stable seems accepted and known also.

Any sites or links on stablility is appreciated. SWIM knows that tryptamines are more fragile than phens but can be very stable is stored properly. SWIM wanted to know how long DPT would remain in tact.

[trptamene]

swim thinks that if one were to have the pure hcl salt under cold anhydrous/inert conditions, it would remain that way for a very very long time.

[radiometer]

SWIMs had some DPT freebase crystals in the freezer for a couple years - wonder what shape they're in?

[trptamene]

^^probably depends on alot on how they were stored...theres a big diff between putting some xtals in a shot glass in the back of swiys freezer and having those crystals in a dessicator w/ something to keep out the light under Ar/N2 or vacuum.

[JackARoe]

SWIM has found freezing unnecessary with other chems and opts for a cool, dry, dark place free from oxygen. This has worked for even the most fragile offenders. SWIM has frozen the wrong way a long time ago, ruined the wears, and is now superstitious (I know bad science). Also there is nothing ever around for long anymore anyway. But knowing the correct way is appreciated.

I guess SWIM is curious as to what light heat and oxygen can do to the simpler molecules like DMT or DPT. Phens seem to be able to take anything and be ok. Trptamines (complicated ones) lose something over some years or become inactive. DMT seems stable enough though and some samples sitting on shelfs for years are rumored to be just fine. The root barks (DMT) seem to retain potency over the years too. I guess there is a difference between HCL or freebase? I believe it's HCL.

Thanks for the responses and course on stability. It is appreciated.

Based on what I've read I can probably tell SWIM that the DPT sitting in a cool dry closet sealed in a glass jar is probably just fine and should be. SWI said he found only one dose and was thinking he should just throw it away. Not exactly a treasure chest but waste not want not!

I don't know about SWIM but 15 years ago someone told me a story of a person storing blotters and gelcaps of LSD for over 10 years in a cool dry place free from light and oxygen but wasn't a freezer. The potency remained 10 years later. So the terms "stabile but fragile" mean a lot more than unstable and fragile. Sometimes I think the loss of potency stories have been exaggerated. There is always those stories of people finding blotter that's 8 years old in a sock drawer and eating 3 thinking they were too old to work and then wham... it's a good thing they are experienced.

[Felonious Skunk]

Well there's a story on Erowid of a sealed ampoule of Sandoz LSD stored in a cool (room temp), dark, and O2-free environment being quite potent 40+ years later, so it seems that light & oxygen are the main culprits when it comes to acid.

[rxbandit]

Swim thinks the HCL salt would last for a good long time as long as it was not in excessive heat or humidity. the HCL salts are fairly stable. Swim is fairly sure DMT does not degrade in water as bad as some other tryptamines. Alot of the DMT extractions can be carried out with lengthy soaks rather then heating. Swim has done this on one occasion and the DMT was top notch. Swim has stored the DPT for sixth months with no noticeable degradation.

[radiometer]

Originally Posted by trptamene

^^probably depends on alot on how they were stored...theres a big diff between putting some xtals in a shot glass in the back of swiys freezer and having those crystals in a dessicator w/ something to keep out the light under Ar/N2 or vacuum.

SWIM stores all his chemicals under vacuum, light-tight. The tryptamines go in the freezer for extra protection.

[snapper]

SWIM had DPT for 10 years and it was still the same color and as potent as when first acquired. Note that this is the HCl salt. When SWIM had FB DPT, after 5 years it was still 100% potent but ran out (SWIM wishes there were some way of preventing the latter). Dark, airtight, cool and dry.

[radiometer]

Did SWIM have the material which had been successfully crystallized, or an oil? If crystals, did it remain in its original state? Just checking - does the comment about it 'running out' refer to being used up by indulgent monkeys, or something else?

[snapper]

SWIM got 2 batches and both were translucent pale pink/white crystalline solids. SWIM was referring to crackhead monkeys depleting their lab supplies while playing poker at night when the head white-coat was asleep. It never melted unless heated and never changed. Qualitatively like snorted DPT and from reputable sources x 2.

[PolyFractus]

Originally Posted by radiometer

SWIM stores all his chemicals under vacuum, light-tight. The tryptamines go in the freezer for extra protection.

How exactly can these chemicals be stored under vacuum?

[trptamene]

stick in a vial...put a septum on it, seal with copper wire...attach vacuum line with a needle. suck out the air.

Or a vacuum dessicator, but swim's tends to lose its vacuum over time and needs to be hooked up to the pump every 3 days or so. If it is something swim uses often he will just keep it in the dessicator under vacuum (this is not for his drug chemistry).

For most people who dont have access to a pump, they might be able to use an water aspirator (sp?)...

Rather than under vacuum swim stores his chemicals over Ar...just his preference...but if he had access to no inert gas and no pump...swim thinks he would use CO2, it would not be that hard to set up a gas line and into swiys vial.

[radiometer]

SWIM doesn't use a true vacuum, the chemicals are sealed with a vacuum food sealer. Works like a charm.

[trptamene]

Originally Posted by radiometer

SWIM doesn't use a true vacuum, the chemicals are sealed with a vacuum food sealer. Works like a charm.

Oh ya? swim hadn't thought of that as he hadnt the need to...I wonder what kind of pressures these go down to and if they could be used for reduced pressure during chemistry...one would probably need to stick a trap in the line, but this could be done pretty easily at home.

[radiometer]

The instruction booklet for the sealer says that "the vacuum level is measured up to 25 inches Mg or 63cm/Mg." I have no idea how to interpret that. It seals damned tightly - a small ziplok is placed in a paper envelope which is then sealed, and the edges of everything (ziplok etc.) stand out in sharp relief on the outside of the sealed package.

For this application it seems entirely sufficient, anyway. It sure seems a lot easier to SWIM than screwing around with filling vials full of helium or such. Attached is a sample pic (of course the ziplok in the picture is filled with sugar ).

[trptamene]

63cm mercury=630mm mercury

1atm=760mm mercury...soo this can get down to 0.82 atm.

Am glad works for swiy, but swim will stick with Ar until he no longer has access to it(...of course swim doesnt store all his goods this way...just the bulk of it...he has a "working supply" (about 10 doses) that is just capped and vialed but in a freezer in the dark in a dessicator.

[JackARoe]

Originally Posted by snapper

SWIM had DPT for 10 years and it was still the same color and as potent as when first acquired. Note that this is the HCl salt. When SWIM had FB DPT, after 5 years it was still 100% potent but ran out (SWIM wishes there were some way of preventing the latter). Dark, airtight, cool and dry.

Cool. Then it's damn stable.

Thanks for all the valuable replies. It is appreciated.