A boyfriend who doesn't like drugs

[Esmerelda]

Hey,

Perhaps this is more a rant than a request for advice, although any suggestions would be gratefully received.

A close friend of mine (so close in fact that sometimes we feel as though we are the same person), who's name is Anjelica, has a boyfriend who's attitude to drugs is very different from hers. Her's (though hard to sum up in a sentence or two) is that in time she is aiming to be free of the drugs that she knows she uses as a distraction from the truth (in her case, mostly opiates and alcohol now). But that there are others (mostly in plant form - salvia and peyote in particular) which have helped her in the past and which she feel comfortable continuing to use unless her attitude or insight into this matter changes in the future. She sees them as being tied in with her relationship to the natural world and her moving towards letting go of attachments.

Her boyfriend on the other hand is very very anti drugs. He grew up surrounded by friends who took large quantities of just about everything so it's not the result of a conservative upbringing. Anjelica has tried to discuss the matter with him but it seems as though there's nothing very rational to get a hold of in their discussion. He feels that taking drugs somehow disrupts your essential energy/waveform (for want of a better way of putting it). She said she thinks doing anything without proper intent and consideration has this effect and that often this does apply to drug taking but not always. She also tried arguing that he drinks tea, but he said caffeine doesn't have the same dramatic effects as the drugs she is talking about. She said who's to say that a smaller but cumulative effect isn't more disrupting. She also argued that the mental states brought about by some drugs can be acheived through other means such as lack of sleep or extreme emotion. At this point he started to get upset and said, "it's just how I feel, okay."

He believes that once you've taken some drug or other you're then permanently altered and can perhaps never achieve the state of being that we're meant to achieve. He said that sometimes he gets so upset thinking about some of the stuff that Anjelica has done that he wonders whether he can still be with her.

She's happy to work towards eliminating opiates from her life (having had a fairly serious problem with them in the past). She's also not against the idea of quitting alcohol, although is not quite ready. But she feels angry about his reaction to Salvia and other psychotropic plants. She wants to be able to respect his feelings and doesn't believe that her way of thinking is 'right' and that he must come round to it. But at the same time it is very frustrating and hard not to feel annoyed!

She has waited 4 years since last taking Salvia for it to be the right time to try it again. Now she feels it would help her again but he is completely against the idea.

Has anyone else ever had this sort of problem in a relationship? Anyone ever reached an agreement?

Thanks for listening,
Esmerelda

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting topic. A realistic and familiar situation for many

[TheAOU]

I know of one couple who reached an agreement. One of the members smokes marijuana, the other one does not like marijuana, and thinks it is a waste of time. They just pretend that they don't know that the one party smokes marijuana.

I believe an opiate dependency is a little bit different.

As for salvia, non-drug users will probably never understand the spiritual power of hallucinogens. I always thought this was because they were hiding something that they don't even know about.

It would be hard for swim to explain to someone why he uses acid. When SWISHERS see swim on acid, they would think that he is in a horrible, horrible place.

Maybe she should explain that salvia helps her realize the root of deep problems and how to go about fixing them.

[Esmerelda]

Originally Posted by TheAOU

I know of one couple who reached an agreement. One of the members smokes marijuana, the other one does not like marijuana, and thinks it is a waste of time. They just pretend that they don't know that the one party smokes marijuana.

LOL. This is about as close as my friend and her boyfriend have come to an agreement too. But she's not comfortable with that situation so won't go along with it.

As for salvia, non-drug users will probably never understand the spiritual power of hallucinogens. I always thought this was because they were hiding something that they don't even know about.

Perhaps sometimes that's true. Even if it's not the case it has given me a thought. Perhaps Anjelica should concentrate more on her boyfriend's feelings about drugs and what upsets him so much, rather than simply trying to persuade him otherwise. She will try to be less self-centered .

[Perception Addict]

This sounds like a good plan. It might be a good plan to try to get to the root of this distaste for drugs, rather than just focusing on the result of that distaste.

If swiy can break through to him about the spiritual (or however swiy feels it to be) powers of the substances, perhaps suggest that he try them with swiy. This would put a more positive spin on things, so instead of boyfriend thinking swiy is going off into another world without him, potentially coming back a different person, he would be experiencing that with swiy. In this way, taking substances is more a way to explore one's relationship than a distancer.

[merc11292]

that sounds like a tough situation

for the opiates if there was once a problem with them a complete stop of use sounds good.

Im of the opinion that theres never a need to avoid alcohol unless you find a problem with it like potential addiction, it is one of the oldest social drugs.

with psychotropic plants, anjelica may want to point out that salvia has for years been used for religious purposes in i believe a part of Mexico, and if im not mistaken peyote was used by native americans for prayer ceremonies. Thus proving a positive outlook on these drugs.

anjelica also mentioned the tea thing with her boyfriend if he drinks it alot, then she could try and have him stop so he can experience the withdrawal effects caffeine can have, proving it is drug that can have dramatic effects.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good point

[Nature Boy]

He says using drugs prevents one from reaching their ultimate potential? HA! I think it's the drugs that make you realise this, it doesn't cause it.

[Daytona71]

To be in touch with the natural world and to help rid yourself of the things in this world that are restrictive(posessions) one needs to develop a relationship with Jesus Christ, the creator of all that there is. The more clean you become and the closer your relationship with the Lord the more perfect you become. What is more important, getting high or relationships? I would choose the latter. Drop the boyfriend as you have no future as things stand and I am simply ranting and not offering advice.
Posessions tend to posessus us. I understand wanting to rid yourself of such things. I consider them to be bagage, a necessary evil.
If you value the boyfriend try his position for a few months and find out what is most important to you. You have the ability to make the choice, maybe. let us know how it goes!

[rxbandit]

Originally Posted by Daytona71

To be in touch with the natural world and to help rid yourself of the things in this world that are restrictive(posessions) one needs to develop a relationship with Jesus Christ, the creator of all that there is. The more clean you become and the closer your relationship with the Lord the more perfect you become. What is more important, getting high or relationships? I would choose the latter. Drop the boyfriend as you have no future as things stand and I am simply ranting and not offering advice.
Posessions tend to posessus us. I understand wanting to rid yourself of such things. I consider them to be bagage, a necessary evil.
If you value the boyfriend try his position for a few months and find out what is most important to you. You have the ability to make the choice, maybe. let us know how it goes!

hahaha, i hope this is just the most awesome sarcastic joke ever. If not I suggest you read Genesis chapter 1 and note that God and Jesus are not the same divine entity.and also note that theres no anti drug messages in the bible... however this jesus character does say not to judge other people by say, telling them that taking drugs makes them less of a person.

If someone hates an integral part of what you believe in, maybe they are not the right person for you. Dating someone who hates passionately something you like doing or used to do, will likely cause a shame, resentment kind of relationship. There is little that will remedy this unless you and the person can come to an understanding and are willing to accept each others viewpoints. If he thinks drugs will not let you live up to your "potential", he will always look down on you as a person for "not living up to your potential" and likely will not give you the respect and love you deserve.

Anyone that would say such things without founded facts or experience just sounds overbearing, close minded and controlling. Not sure if any of those are true, but heh. I would start looking elsewhere, if you want a long term commitment. If its not to serious, forget it and just have some fun.

[Lunar Loops]

The yak has vast experience of this type of problem and has never really found a satisfactory solution. If the other party is entenched in their view, you will not be able to change their minds no matter how logical and well thought out your reasoning. It is like trying to argue about the existence of a god....you are not going to change the other person's point of view. The yak has found that even if you do manage to convince the other party that there is no real harm to indulging, they will often play the illegality card and there is no real argument against that (get caught and you will have a record, etc, etc).

I'm afraid to report that the only solutions the yak has ever found are to either end the relationship or continue in a fashion suggested by TheAOU. You continue your use, but not in their face and in particular take opportunities for 'deeper' voyages when the other party is away. In return they do not 'go on at you' about your slight indulgences. It's a far from perfect solution, but it is the only one the yak has found to be workable if you do not want to go out looking for a new, more accepting partner.

[Esmerelda]

Perception Addict, merc11292, Nature Boy, Daytona71, rxbandit, shroomonger...

Thanks for all the advice!

Things are actually looking up. With regards to the salvia at least. I think it came from having been so patient about the whole thing and not pushing him to change his mind. Anjelica told him a few weeks ago she wanted to talk about it, then brought it up again today. And it went okay. He still says he doesn't feel good about it but perhaps could become okay with it in time, so long as the intentions behind doing it are spiritual and not recreational. That's a major breakthrough, trust me!

[Daytona71]

Originally Posted by rxbandit

hahaha, i hope this is just the most awesome sarcastic joke ever. If not I suggest you read Genesis chapter 1 and note that God and Jesus are not the same divine entity.and also note that theres no anti drug messages in the bible... however this jesus character does say not to judge other people by say, telling them that taking drugs makes them less of a person.

If someone hates an integral part of what you believe in, maybe they are not the right person for you. Dating someone who hates passionately something you like doing or used to do, will likely cause a shame, resentment kind of relationship. There is little that will remedy this unless you and the person can come to an understanding and are willing to accept each others viewpoints. If he thinks drugs will not let you live up to your "potential", he will always look down on you as a person for "not living up to your potential" and likely will not give you the respect and love you deserve.

Anyone that would say such things without founded facts or experience just sounds overbearing, close minded and controlling. Not sure if any of those are true, but heh. I would start looking elsewhere, if you want a long term commitment. If its not to serious, forget it and just have some fun.

Genesis 1:26-"Then God said, "let US create man in OUR image, according to our likeness,let them have dominion over the fish of the sea.....

Matthew 38:19- Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

These 2 verses show examples of the doctrine of the Trinity and even the most knowledgeable men have trouble with thois as God did not give us all knowledge about Himself but what we needed to know to be reconciled with Him to have the opportunity to spend eternity with Him. Then again I never said God and Jesus were the same being though they are the same but separate sort of like H2O can be as a liquid, solid or gas but is still H2O.

Drunkeness(sdrug use-simply semantics as many of what are discussed here werenot available then).
1. Forbidden-Ephesians 5:18
2. Caution against-Luke 21:34
3. Is a work of the flesh-Galations-5:21
4. ENSLAVES THE HEART-Luke 21:34 How about having your heart enslaved?WOW!

Also I never said taking drugs makes one less of a person. Is there a bit of conviction there? I don't judge and the verse you are referring to has to do with a persons salvation and not whether they are committing a sin which taking drugs for recreational purposes is. I know because I struggle with that sin. Why would the pot call the kettle black? All I am saying is that being clean IMHO is the best way to go through life and two people with such a difference on such an important issue have a problem to start with. Be careful and be safe.

Reputation Comments on this post:

very informative post

[darkglobe]

Above is something to think about, definitely ^.

Also, I've been in the same (ish) position, but I was Anjelica's friedns bf, so to speak. I actually became quite controlling, and ended up losing my partner.

I'm going out on a limb saying this, but I think you should respect his opinion (as everyone is entitled to one), but do what YOU want... just don't push it on him and definitely never think you can change his views.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for your insight

[Esmerelda]

^^^^ (darkglobe and FSs posts)

Definitely something she should keep in mind. She tells me she has thought about this herself. She tends to be more inclined to worry about how her actions affect others rather than the other way around. This can sometimes be a negative thing and isn't always as selfelss as it might seem. A balance is important. I'll remind her to think of what you said if things become difficult in the future.

[Perception Addict]

We probably shouldn't let this degenerate into a discussion of religious beliefs (which will inevitably get very ugly). I'm certain there are varying religious beliefs here, and it's really not the question at hand unless someone asks specifically for moral or religious guidance. Let us try to focus on the questions that actually are being asked, and try to avoid the route that leads to flaming of people's religions (or lack thereof).

Reputation Comments on this post:

Probably a good idea!

[Felonious Skunk]

^^^^ Agreed. But to knock things back in balance a little, some words from a "neighboring state."

Frank Zappa : You Are What You Is : Dumb All Over
"You can't run a country
By a book of religion
Not by a heap
Or a lump or a smidgeon
Of foolish rules
Of ancient date
Designed to make
You all feel great
While you fold, spindle
And mutilate
Those unbelievers
From a neighboring state...

...God knows what he's doin'
He wrote this book here
An' the book says:
He made us all to be just like Him,
so...
If we're dumb...
Then God is dumb...
(An' maybe even a little ugly on the side)"

[AceOvArts]

I think if 2 people disagree over drug use 1 of the parties has to submit to the other. Being in a relationship is all about sharing, if 2 people cant share (an this includes drug useage) there is a serious problem in the relationship. If they both love each other then issues about drugs should be worked out easily. The couple involved will know if thier love for each other is stronger than the love for or against drugs. SWIM made sure his spouse knew all about his drug use before entering into a long relationship, SWIM may well be selfish but his quest for knowledge is stronger than anything (apart from his love for his kids).