MD secrecy

[stoneinfocus]

Hi there,

somehow swim seems to be attracked to fascist, inbreed idiots only,
but he may be one of those -not fascist, but after disregarding some security standeards and trusting an expertise of Vharma, which he should have been regarding with more healthy scepsis- he caught some flames for a split seconds and had to go to the hospital, mostly because of another stupidity: his clothing was insufficient, which could have prevented most of the burns.

Anyway, no biggie, he thought:"there´s the medical doctor secrecy, tell him all you know"; said and done, so he told about a flame, the chemicals that caused the flames, and that everything was under control.

The injuries were more severe than he thought, so he had ben given Ketamine immediately, his wounds were cleaned and covered with bandage when he woke up from his K-hole the doc in green surgery dress told him, that he(or she)´d called the FBI and that swim´ll be facing a lot of trouble.

Swim couldn´t believe in what a nightmare, what a bad joke, he was in right now.

They also got an old psychiatric expertise on swim and told him, that it might be a good idea to get into a closed psychiatric hospital, after treatments were finished.

So he was lying on coals, and it all could have been cool: lots of morphine, everything was healing very fast, cool guys on the station, because they moved him to a special clinic after cleaning up the wounds, but after these statements in the ambulance, he didn´t belive the docs, telling him, he wasn´t going to be treated in psychiatry, which they finally and luckily didn´t.

Unfortunately, the FBI was confiscating swims whole things in his room, although they´ll have a hard time sueing swim for anything illegal, except for having grams of steroids lying around, it´sa very bad situation, ´cause he was sued out of his room and has to get a new one right now.

Oh -and the Doctor seemed to very proud, that he/she told the FBI about swims activity (again nothing illegal to this point and truly just out of scientific intererest), like saving a thousand chritian lifes from the evils of a develish dope-pusher or a terrorist suicide bomber.

I hate all those morons and bad mouthing on drugs, they are all ingnorant childish low IQed capitalists, who basically only managed to go from the door to the car, as a career in their lives, and then wonder why anyone would do drugs or could be really needing them to survive and why some are really goinfg mad and involved in terrorism.

Swim is in the mood of killing and spreading evil, so the world will know again the true worth and value of things, freedom, and if it´s worth dying for some grams of stupid, mostly harmless, but very useful powder and the right of selfdetermination and -definition.

Don´t trust no-one, be safe, be prepared for the worst, plan in advance carefully! Fight the evil seed of underlying fascicm in the system!

One fried and seriously pissed bee.

stoneinfocus

[Felonious Skunk]

In this case it's quite possible the MD could have considered the possibility of SWIY burning down the house a threat to others, and perhaps was ethically inclined to inform the authorities.

This is a well-known and justified exemption to medical confidentiality. Rest assured that the medical details associated with SWIY's treatment and recovery will remain sealed.

And SWIY needs to look at the bigger picture before going on a rampage that would only further justify the MD's original conclusions.

[stoneinfocus]

Swim told everything the doc needed to know about the situtationat home, the cause and the cause of his injury.

There was no need at all, nor reason to believe anything would have been out of control, or was going on to hurt, or put others @ risk.

I still think the confidentiality should be kept more strict and stone was reading it up, that after the law, there has to be a lot more happening and this has to be in the interest of the patient or must be a clear criminal thread, like murder, or a formulated terroristic action taking place, to break confidentiality.

Medical secrecy is not what politicians and police forces and the dumb public or press media would like it to be, it´s what ethics and the conclusion from Bruessel say, what it is.

A doc shouldn´t after that even be allowed to draw blood for alcohol-testing or be allowed to work for any institution, but for the patients health.

He may break confidentility if it were clearly in the interest of the patient (i.g. he was raped and is unconscious, but would have calles the police, or if there were clearly signs of violence )

You might mistake this confidentiality with the obligation to report, as a privat person, any room-fires to the police, which is a civil right question, but not one concerning the medical secrecy.

After hearong/reading this story I´ve completely lost faith in freedom-rights and living in something that deserves to be called democracy, which is more an ochlocraty and plutocracy.

[stoneinfocus]

The consquences of the confiscation are far worse, than if the the house would have burned down.

But after reading, that stone´s suspicion of fascist of the former regime taking over was right in the Frankfuter Allgemeine Zeitung, where the FBI-equivalent, the german BKA was in the beginning of its foundation mostly occupied with SS (Schutz Standarte, those killing and cleaning up jews, commis and others behind the lines of the Wehrmacht) officers in charge, who took over their old position form Hitler now in this new "democratic" law enforcement agency.

They ruled until the mid-eighties and until this time and still it´s been a scientific fact, an internal policy, that criminality is due to the genes of a person usually in combination with lazyness and lawlessness, that Sinti and Roma -Gypsies are asocial and lazy work avoiding people, with an hereditary intention to move.

(stone was asked after giving his address, if this still was germany iby an officer, and when he had a nap, and some officers came to question him, stoen heard, that thery were saying, o he has the time to sleep until now... you get the picture of the intetnion)

From the same time-well from about 1925, the later minister of health and sports of the nazis, concluded, that opiate-addiction must be cured by all means and no medical help shall those be given, breaking the well known medical rule to provide morphine, better, to conserve a state of a sickness by all means as good as possible. until it´s ready or open for therapy, meaning as well giving opiates and cocaine to the addicted people as long as they intend to not cure their `deseas´ and so they could go on with their lives, with as little disadvantages as possible.

Since thgis is absolutelsy no fun for swuuim living and wondering with every accidenrt to be deporetd to a concetration camp, or being sued by those who actually raped him, he´s thinking of something more radical, so that others, usually not involved will be forced to be concerned about this issiue.Unelss this happens, nothing will happen and the injustice wil commence. Or it will be the other way around, the laws will beget so strict, that everything must collaps, but something has to happen, this is no fun and not worth living anymore.

[Felonious Skunk]

Wow. You've invoked Godwin's Law by post #3. I still don't believe you really understand what doctor-patient confidentiality really means. The idea is that no one has access to SWIY's medical records without his permission.

And that is still the case here.

SWIY's problem is that he really gave the MD more info than was necessary, and aroused concern that his actions might put others at risk. For example, psychiatric practitioner guidlines forbid forced hospitalization of individuals without their consent unless they are perceived by the practitioner to be a threat to themselves or others.

This is a judgement call that society has bestowed the privilege of making upon psychiatrists and others who work in the mental health care field. It basically assumes that the decade or so of academic study required to become a psychiatrist imparts a certain wisdom to decide if a patient will hurt themselves or others.

Likewise, this privilege is accorded to allopathic MD's. This particular MD felt that failure to investigate the circumstances that caused SWIY's injuries might result in others being harmed. If SWIY had come to the ER covered in blood that was a type other than his own, would he have asked the MD to "just keep this between you and me"?

It's a judgment call. Perhaps this MD might be perceived as being a bit aggressive in using this judgment, but whatever the consequences of legal action pending against SWIY may be, I would love to hear how they could be worse than burning down a house with others in it?

While no exception to doctor-patient confidentiality laws is clearly-defined, SWIY's situation is a pretty good case for breaking it. SWIM had his own lab in his day and frankly, it's "chemists" like SWIY, who think it's all a game and who don't give a fuck about anyone else that give the art of clandestine chemistry a bad name and are the reason you see the men in bunny suits on TV every time some clown with a triple-neck flask and a jug of acetone gets found out by the feds.

Anyway, if SWIY decides to plead not guilty, perhaps his lawyer can bring the issue up at trial and have the search and seizure disqualified as evidence, but little boys who play with volatile solvents in their bedroom without goggles, protective clothing, and a fire extinguisher nearby really can't expect to have their secrets kept by an MD if he/she thinks that others may be harmed the next time they burn down the house.

[stoneinfocus]

1. the scale was very small(100ml), if the expertiseof Vharma would have benn true, no flkames would have been formed, bercause amines are inert and nitros are too, but both in one solution are highly explosive.
2. Swim had sand, extinguisher and waterbuckets anf a sack of sand around and the scale was so small, that he had the worst case scenario concerning the injuries.
3. Swim told about it and that others were at the scene and that it was already under control before swim called some others to drive him to the ER, so this is why I think the secrecy had been broken in an unjustified manner.

4.The blood example you´re giving is something weird, cause obviously in this case there must have been a danger to anotherone not at the ER, that might need help.

5.The MD had all the info and still was a kind of proud like announcing to having busted a serious, commercially runnig drug lab (no swim wasn´t after meth nor anything ilegal at this point), this was the annoying fact, maybe swim excepts anyone to have an IQ greater than 120 and to be acting cool, but if in these days MDs don´t know about NaBH4 and ether, then I don´t what the heck they´re doing in their free time.

Even when flying over some pharmaceutical synths or patentes there´s this stuff mentioned a hundred times, but mabye pharmacology isn´t a big chapter in medical education?

Oh-and swim has all the bells and whistles when he made the rxn of said greater chemical power and dangers involved, than this one, even face shield and ventilation, which should have happened at room temp.

[stoneinfocus]

Anyway, concerning your last paragraph, true maybe, but in swims case unjustified, as others were already involved and knew everything was in control.

They said later, that it was made, to get a better understanding of what injured this person so to say helpig him, but a stone in focus already told `em everything to know about the injuries´ cause and substances involved.

Swim thinks it was clearly his family wanting him dead or off their cast, no matter what, I literally saw them thinking of how they could get him out his house, when it happened and a stone called them to drive him to the ER.

The nice guys of the criminal police told him that a judge could, because of his history, get him into a psychiatry when his case will be heard, Idon´t know, if this is against MD-secrecy again, because this is something, that lies way back and was caused by lies of his family members and a judge that felt sympathy for them... so I don´t know, how they came to know this fact, just because he was deportet years ago (->4!) into one of today´s concentration camps. i
t shouldn´t be in the register anymore, or is somenoe taht easily stigmatized, by just deporting and sentencing for psychiatric treatment,thus more sever fucked, than a criminal, whose criminal data will be deleted after a few years?

This is again an edgy thing between ethics and collaboration of MDs with the state, especially when there´s no evidence, but the lies of one party and an "expertise" of a doc, that has nearly void scientific background and as such no liability as an evidence, like a neutral witness of the crime or a document.


So, if one is deported for -say suspected, drug induced atrocity, as told by other family members, by a judge in a 7 minutes hearing on chritmas-day, when there were no drugs involved for years in this person, except 5mg valium and the beating hit only him in charge,
and the docs, then, treat you, later let you go free with the "expertise" given to a judge, that you´re okay, then is this a valued
and proven statement, and all things told, are taken as if they really happend and as valuable and true as is a trial with a `sane´ person witrh trial and witnessing and evidence-based verdict of a judge and/or jury ina public court room? This cannot be, there´s no justice in that!



Again, the doc may only collaborate, if the patient announces to commit a murder, or a violent act, or if such things happened to the patient itself or if there´s evidence of a terroristic act going on, that endangers shipping or aircrafts or the inner security of the state.You see, I´m not James Bond or Bin Laden, as a leader of a now acting terror group, when I say I have a burn injury from an accident.

So the house should have burned down, if the patient didn´t tell that it was burning down.None of the doc´s or his personal´s business.

[stoneinfocus]

Originally Posted by stoneinfocus

The nice guys of the criminal police told him that a judge could, because of his history, get him into a psychiatry when his case will be heard, Idon´t know, if this is against MD-secrecy as well, because this case goeas way back (4 years) and was caused by lies of his family members and a judge that felt sympathy for them... so I don´t know, how they came to know this fact?

This is again an edgy thing between ethics and collaboration of MDs with the state, especially when there´s no evidence, but the "witnessing" of one party and an "expertise" of a doc, that has nearly void scientific background and as such no liability as an evidence, like a neutral witness of the crime or a document, that proves you´re not guilty.

It shouldn´t be in the register anymore, or is somenone that easily stigmatized, by just being deported and sentenced for psychiatric treatment, thus more sever fucked, than a criminal, whose criminal data will be deleted after a few years?

No offical case, no evidence, no witnessing no nothing just sentencing to you´re sick and my docs will prove and treat this and that´s it?

So, if one is deported for -say suspected, drug induced atrocity, as told by other family members, by a judge in a 7 minutes hearing on chritmas-day, when there were no drugs involved for years in this person, except 5mg valium and the beating hit only him in charge,
and the docs, then, treat you, later let you go free with the "expertise" given to a judge, that you´re okay, then is this a valued
and proven statement, and all things told, are taken as if they really happend and as valuable and true as is a trial with a `sane´ person witrh trial and witnessing and evidence-based verdict of a judge and/or jury ina public court room? This cannot be, there´s no justice in that!


Again, the doc may only collaborate, if the patient announces to commit a murder, or a violent act, or if such things happened to the patient itself or if there´s evidence of a terroristic act going on, that endangers shipping or aircrafts or the inner security of the state.You see, I´m not James Bond or Bin Laden, as a leader of a now acting terror group, when I say I have a burn injury from an accident.

So the house should have burned down, if the patient didn´t tell that it was burning down.None of the doc´s or his personal´s business.

This paragraph should be understandable and intelligable as I corrected my 4pm typing of last nite, and arrogance is no intelligence, just ignoring the basic simple rules and mechanisms of freedom, by bullshitting over other things than these.Not offending you or any other on this board.But I know what you think you mean, with the testical trophy ))

[FuBai]

Looking at your post and the way you talk about the people involved in the story...why didn't they take you to a psych hospital? You clearly conform to many of the attributes associated with psychosis, schizophrenia and/or depression. Not saying this as a criticism, you can't help what you have got, but you may want to consider that there may be a problem? Just a suggestion.

[stoneinfocus]

You can cause these symptoms by treatement, so you´ll get them. Anyway, these aren´t any of these symptoms, I can assure you.

And what if this all is true? this is so easy and you´re not arguing to my well-founded
criticism of the laws and the ethical conflict with the md-secrecy.

In the fascist germany anyone who would have mentioned concentration camps would have been senn as mad, paranoid, psychotic.I know, I´m neither of these.If these symptoms apply one can be sure it´s made this way to fuck people up.And you aren´t giving any specific facts about why I sound psychotic, so please stop bullshitting.When somethign has the spirit of the old nazi regime , it´s just like that, sorry, I can´t help.

I´m literally dying because I´m slowly murdered by the burocracy and the reluctancy of getting help, cut-off my well fare, was murder threatend and slaughtered and survived only because I was young and a professional athlete and the hospital was 3kilometers away from the accident, now my injuries that are obvious on the röntgen screenings (even I can see the arthrosis in my knee and the persisting swelling and this is only one of many injuries)m tha teven I can tell they´re there.

Back on topic, instead of spamming, please read my previous posting and add comments to this situation.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by stoneinfocus

You can cause these symptoms, by treating you to get them.

And what if this all is true? this is so easy and you´re not arguing to my well-founded
criticism of the laws and the ethical conflict with the md-secrecy.

In the fascist germany anyone who would have mentioned concentration camps would have been senn as mad, paranoid, psychotic.I know, I´m neither of these.If they apply one can be sure ti´s made this way to fuck people up, when possible.

Mostly because you are writing in an odd way, your punctuation seems to be randomly sprinkled across what you are saying and I find it difficult to understand everything that you say. The fact that you keep calling everyone fascist is a little disconcerting too. Have you taken the time to think thoroughly about what you are trying to say? I'm being lenient because there sounds like there's a problem. If it had been Biklebees or someone else posting this I would have been a) disappointed that he's not as intelligent as I thought he was and b) I would have nailed his testicles to a plank of wood to hang up in my "people I have crushed absolutely and unremittingly in public debate" trophy case. If you want me to engage with this god awfully constructed pile of paranoid tripe then I'm all for it. It may take me a while to work out what you are trying to say though.

[stoneinfocus]

As I´m concerned, the doc ´s secrecy is none, if it can be broken and is against the wealth of the patient or for any other business.It´s like the liver doing the job o´f the kidney, which will, if not stopped, result in deseases an death.

Burning house? Well there´s neighbours publicity and all that jazz, but no doctors treating a burn injured man, saying everything is in control along with witnesses.

I´m too tired to retype everything that happened, beacuse it was so much, but one could understand it, if he´d fill in the things that might have happened to me, when understanding the context. Try thinking in german grammer, so it´s easier.. I know, I know.

[FuBai]

You are going to have to help me out if I've misinterpreted what you are trying to say; but let's break it down:

a) You said it's possible for me, just by looking at your symptoms from the point of view of someone who has spent a little time in a psych hospital and discussing them, to make you psychotic. It is possible to make people psychotic through long abuse, beatings, torture both psychologically and physically and through the use of drugs, but to do it in simple debate where I don't even make eye contact is a feat Darren Brown would admire.

b) You keep saying well founded - but is it, really? You have taken one, personal example and expanded it to apply to all doctors.

c) If you want me to ignore the attributes you arbitrarily assign to these people then don't put them in.

d) Lets play "Guess what the hell he's jabbering on about." I give you a sentence and you try and tell me what you actually meant by it: "As I´m concerned, the doc ´s secrecy is none, if it can be broken and is against the wealth of the patient or for any other business" I'm sorry, but I just don't understand. Against the Wealth? I would say you mean Health but the H key is a hell of a way from the W key so I'm starting to doubt that.

e) Even in the above statement there are obvious fallacies. The Doctor-Patient confidentiality (We'll call it D-PC) cannot be broken for any reason. There are very specific laws against such a thing occurring. I'm a little more hazy on US law as I only lived there for a year or so, but the chances are it's very similar to UK D-PC laws, unless the Patriot Act violated those as well. It's incredibly difficult to access medical data unless the a) the patient gives his permission, b) a judge orders that there should be access, c) The doctor fears that you pose a serious threat to others (even then he needs a SOAD) d) You die.

f) Lets look at the moral implications - you are suggesting that, should a patient be seen by a doctor who diagnoses him with something like psychosis and understands that he presents a real and present threat to others, that the doctor shouldn't be able to do anything about it, shouldn't be able to prevent that person going back into society and causing that damage? What if the person came into the GP's office with burn marks that he said were caused in the making of a bomb - should the GP just give him some burn ointment and send him on his merry way? Wouldn't that leave the GP morally complicit in any eventual use of said bomb? Now, let's say you honestly believe that illegal drugs are a scourge that kill millions and absolutely have to be stopped, and you believe that with all your heart, and the state keeps telling you "Yes! You are right!" and colleagues back you up and even people in every foreign country in the world back you up, which is what's happening at the moment, then there would be no question that you would report suspected drug production to the police, because you believe that you are saving people's lives, which is the job of a doctor.

g) Lets break that down a bit, shall we. Say the doctor suspects that a child is being beaten or abused by it's parents - should he contact the police? Let's say that the doctor is not told openly about a criminal act such as bomb manufacturing and illegal arms trading, but has good reason to suspect that's what's happening - should he tell the police? Say the doctor suspects someone of being a serious danger to themselves and others who live near them because he is carrying out potentially dangerous chemical experiments that have already landed him in hospital - further more they suspect that he will not desist because it appears he has certain mental disorders - should he be allowed to wander off and endanger more people or should the doctor try to prevent that? Especially when that person has shown a disregard for his own safety and that of those around him by making comments like "it would have been better if the house burned down" a comment that I now see has been eradicated.

h) I still can't work out what the hell that last line means.

I) looking at your subsequent additions and re-editing of you statements I would agree with you on one point - that a psychiatric record is appalling because it is permanent, long after the condition has been resolved which is very un-just and counter-productive. At least your criminal convictions become 'spent' a while after you leave prison.

Reputation Comments on this post:

A well thought out and clear response in a difficult to understand thread!

[stoneinfocus]

to d) you´re right, I meant well-being and health ... in german there´s a very similar sounding word with the "w" I´m sorry.But wealth is very close to health in some singel cases. Okay, it means: The doc should treat injuries and sickness only and everything else is not the business of the doctors and it should be kept confidential, that and who he treated for whatever reason.

to b) If a judge knows, that after a conclusion of a doc, that might be based on lies of another group, just telling you were totally crazy, but you´ve never shown any symptomys of aggression during any time of the treatment, than I would say, this is not only my case, for obvious reasons, as weren´t those lobothomized back in the 50ies-70ies.
You know about the figuers of failed treatment in school medicine? -let alone psychiatry, which no-one can obviously define as failures? -the former figures are in the two-digits percent area and these are onyl those that came to public! (and these can be backed by superior scientific means and investigations as compared to any psychiatric verdict on you)

f) there´s no moral, that´s pure opportunism and only proves how deprived we are when it comes to moral and ethics and inner morla strength and humanity.
If there´s a leading culture called christianity, then the P-DC should mean as much to the doc as does the secrecy to a priest.That´s at least how I understood it.
And this is the way it should be, as for all the other jobs we have police investigation, family members, firefighters and a terrorist woulnd´t be that dumb, to tell a doc, what he was doing, he would have his own docs or friends, that would tell lies so nothing would ever happen ( he was cleanign the grill with alcohol and catched fire or some accident on a working site would be mentioned).

For all the rest happening, there´s the unbelievable christian religion to take 100 terror-victims in the western world per 700mio. inhabitiants per year (and still wouldn´t judge anyone wrong and begin wars), or at least should be, shouldn´t it?

[stoneinfocus]

to g) I´d say yes, it should all be kept confidential and there should be better educated and more concious teachers and neighbours and police-work.

I was having allergies and untreated asthma and some teachers knew me for 5 years in a row and no-one ever inverstigated, that this was the reason for my permanent being late or missing, although it was obvious as can be, if they were made to know about it, when it was better and I was doing good work, they dídnt belive, it was me doing that work, although I was tested an 132IQ.
My neigbours should have realized, that I´m asthmatic and should have seen the about 16 very poor looking mistreated cats walking around, which my childhood doc told my parents had to leave.

But what happened?-I was accused of using and selling drugs, because I was late an anarchist, and smoking lots of ciggaretts to do at least one thing concerning my lunghs and my whole education failed because of that.

Yes, I would desist, because I already did Grignard some experiments with NaEtO and NaMeO and I was dreaming of having performed a 20grams synth of piperonal with a 65% yield and if I´d suspected any nitros in the rxn-mix I would have been more careful, I can assure you, but when Vharma says in 10 minutes all nitros have a theoretical yield fo hydroxylamines and 6 hours passed and the same reaction yielded an 80% dream of MDA before, in 6 days, then, all right I was uncareful in handling this mixture with slight heat of a fan to get the stopper off the flask, which all-around might have been a stupid idea, but I still think nothing would have happened with amines only in the mix.And those, who never fail never did anything new.
I drive cars, don´t you think this is dangerous, too, even more, than handling a small scale lab with all the security needed that nothing happens, but to myself even in the worst case?

[stoneinfocus]

concerning g) you might say, that because there´s no courage in people to intervene in other peoples situations, we need to have the P-DC to be broken at some point, I say -no.

In the press ther was a case, where a couple adopted two children, while already having beared two children on their own; the orphans were fed on rubbish, animal food or water only, sent to school, while all the money went to their "true" children.

It wasn´t revelaed because of neighbours or teachers, wondering and investigating about the starving children and that their growth-rate was way under that of the other children, it was because of one of the adopted children died.

Now the moral of the story, the couple both had professions in education and care with children.

[FuBai]

Firstly I want to apologise to you for some of the slights I made against your language - I didn't know that you were German - from your "location" I assumed America. Secondly I would still disagree with the majority of your argument - it takes a greater courage to speak out in the face of things like bomb plots, child abuse and people with dangerous psychosis because of the very way our laws are constructed - if Doc turns out to be wrongo then all hell breaks loose (or can do). Or he can just sit back, relax, rub a lil bit of ointment on the burns that ever so friendly Arabic chap who heads Al Qwada, Kayee da, something like that and never have to worry about the moral implications. Sure would make the doctor's life easier. Instead most people feel a moral obligation when other people's lives may be at risk and want to act against it. I'll use a bit of Mill, that premier student of Jeremy Betham,'s philosophical views and we'll do a quick hedonic calculus - if the doctor is right and Turban Ted is manufacturing his own little arsenal then great, loads of peeps are saved. If the doctor is wrong then Turban Ted may feel a little put out that the piggy wiggys tramped all over his new Persian rug, but he's not about to pop his clogs is he? What we are talking about is protecting the lives of the many by denigrating the rights of a single individual. This isn't justifiable without a responsible non-legal professional pointing the finger - otherwise you could justify any violation of civil liberties in the name of defence (that's what America's doing as we speak), but I think the fact that it's a non-interested party who's not really caught up in the whole criminal justice system is good enough to justify that small violation of liberties - that's how the police get their search warrants, all they need to do is get some neighbour to say "I saw that young man burning a fat one" and they can come aknocking. If you don't believe me on this, then take a look at Erowid's comprehensive report on how search warrants are issued. Because of all the controls that are in place, and because of the possibility of come back on the doctor, I think that in these extreme circumstances only then breach of D-PC may be justifiable.

As for your examples, I'm no chemist so I have very little understanding when you talk about synthesis of drugs - it's not like maths or physics where you can work it out with only basic framework, or at least I can't. Anyway when you drive a car the risks are controlled and understood - back yard chemistry is a more worrisome practice, especially as some reactions generate noxious chemical gasses and toxic by products and, as we have learned from America's Meth Labs, things tend to explode when you don't have the right equipment, skills, precursors or are trying a new synthesis process. You seem to have an understanding of chemistry above and beyond my own and yet you still made the mistake. The other thing is that car driving is tested - you have to have a licence to drive, that can be stripped from you for being irresponsible etc. Underground Chemistry Labs have no such regulation. As for that little story of parental abuse - sure it's horrific but that's a reflection on those people as individuals and their individual circumstances - cases where abuse is caught and curtailed early rarely hit page 1. As for the 'moral' at the end of the story - well I'll let you off seeing as there is a linguistic difference and, as a German, you have the best city in the world (Berlin) which I just can't get enough of in the autumnal and winter months. Alexander Platz... well we'll just leave it as I love Berlin as we are going off topic a tad - back to the moral. That's not a moral, that's a statement - what you probably meant to say is "The moral of the story is that even education professionals are not above aberrant behaviour."

[stoneinfocus]

I agree with your point, but I think the doctor should not be allowed to act as a "normal civil human as he is sworn to help in a medical way only.
It´s diluting a constitutional right and trashing the trust I had about secrecy, I used to be sure of.
And confiscating an 8 years investment on chemicals and apparti isn´t just a bagatelle, or the cops investigating your room for 4 consecutive days, because of a lab, of which products never were intended to see the outside of the lab, but was one of the last hobbies of a severly enabled and enrichment to some scientist,maybe, and himself.

Of course, a lab seems to be more frightening as a car, but the dangers are lesser in running a lab, if done properly, even if done poorly and I guess there´re many fires in home-labs, that were never investigated, or seen as a reason to break the P-DC as accidents do happen, and if you know about the dangers one can adapt to it (my adaption in this new case was the small scale and the accident situation never got outta control, it was stopped, by putting a stopper on the flask and a swush of water outta the bucket nearby.Yes, you might say I haven´t had control, but I had even when the situation was outta control, unfortunately this won´t be seen at all).

And for freedom and saftey´s sake this D-PC shouldn´t be diluted, it´s the same as granting freedome of speach, `except` for having an nationalistic attitude, which is forbidden to do so in 1984-Elmstreet, germany for example).... bingo-we all loose, as with the "except" the freedome of speech is gone forever.

I don´t want to go into the psychiatric reason for breakinbg the P-DC, cause it´s flawed as hell as it is and as is the nature of this subject, e.g. one who´s gone mad about his girlfriend and drove his car into a restaurant´s terrace might be charged for bad driving and endangering people, anotherone beaten up by his brother and escaping by beating back will be sent to an psychiatry as psychotic, because when the cops arrived, talking to his his brother, he was the first to report: he went mad and was probably on drugs... which seems to be enough for the police to do everything to get him busted and helping him by improsonment and psychiatric evaluation, and he´s maybe known by the police and locally for having a cup of coffee with some weed-smokers and LSD-Hippies and H-Junkies of a rock-band, twhich would justify such an intervention.

For the lab-issue, there´re laws that must be fulfilled and I did this the best I could, which was sufficient, or I would have had several ether-explosions in the years before.

Fear kills, liberty, health and common sense, as my mother was afraid of chemistry and getting hysterical and mad, when I was freezing just salt water and rectified spirit, she´d smell strange things, and thinking of getting allergies of it, just by assoiating saltwater with chemistry and this behaviour, which is furthered in exactly such agendas as the laws on "turban teds" = terroracts and meth-labs are blown totally out of porportion, using the unfunded fears of the uneducated masses.
Count the deads of 9/11 and still, it´s peanuts to the reactions and interventions of the USA, to the deaths of smoking or deaths, humiliations in traffic, or medical treatment.
Your car, for example, causes allergies, when you drive diesel, maybe cancer, and you couldn´t tell, wether you´ll actively kill someone with your car or not, because it´s definately possible, as to Murphys Law, everything up to a certain possibility will happen whne you´re running this system which the probability of things that might happen.(death of others can be def. excluded when running a home-lab, except maybe yourself, but that´s only you)

When you say, "saving lifes", I wouldn´t call it a life, when within every fart you give away or others slandering you, you´re deporteted, face psychiatric evaluation and/or your whole home and stuff is going to be confiscicated thereby facing trials and psychiatric imprisonment and forced treatement, which is a torment for only facing it.

Another example where it might be justified, to break the P-DC is abused children..it´s very poor when children are mistreated and no-one cares, but a doc who might recognise it by examinating them would be the only person in charge to help about obvious child-abuse, still I think one shouldn´t take exceptions that far with the P-DC and one should not act to the will of the hystericaly acting mob, wanting to see blood, murder and imprisonments after a terror-act, adn a Doc that might have known about it, an unseen child-abuse, or terroristic actions taking place, because that´s excatly what the terrorist wants, and I have to admit, he´s doing very well, in cutting our personal freedom, by unjustified hysteria and following lawmakings according to the hysteria.

One day, we´ll be randomly sued or psychaitric evaluated when we use steroids and make a living as a wrestler or any other pro-sports circus thing, or when we do anyhting else, than going to work and back home, which might look suspicious.

I wouldn´t call this a living, and if one wants to blow my head off, or destroy my live, which aready happened several times, then he will succeed, that he will and no Doctor will change this no police, no lawyer or whatsoever, as it´ll be already way too late, when these come into play.-exceptions prove the rule.

We need to be strict with liberty and love and then everything will work out by itself, without docs caring for anything but medicine. If we leave our own responsisbilities to authorities, we will be slaves, uncouncious cattle and adapt to this role and we´ll be the killing-mob of freedom and individuals by just predjudice.

I can handle my injuries very well, when I know it was my fault and my freedome of doing, that caused my injuries.