Oral use - Extended Depression after Mdma use

[zilalti]

SWIM has used MDMA a fair few times but have never had a comedown lasting for more than 2 or so days. Last Saturday SWIM took roughly 250mg of MDMA powder for the first time in several months. The come down the next day was usual and the following day the same but to a lesser degree. However for the days following SWIM has been experiencing Very bad depression which is unusual for SWIM. It is getting on for over a week now and SWIM feels no better. On the odd occasion he will get a rush of energy but it will quickly fade.

This seems like an unexpectedly long after effect for such a dose and has got SWIM very worried. Is Swims worrying irrational and how long should Swim be prepared to wait before he sees a change ?

Swim thanks you in advance.

[FrankenChrist]

That is a bit long, yeah. Let me be the first to say 250 mg is like a double dose. Read some of the other threads, take mentioned supplements and see what it gives.
If it still persists talk to a healthcare professional. Don't be ashamed, your first concern is to get better.

Good luck

[zilalti]

Thanks for the reply. Swim has been taking Vit C before and after and has been eating lots of bananas and drinking milk for Tryptophan. Swim will certainly see a doctor if this persists but will give it another week or so to be sure it is not just a normal comedown. Has anyone else had comedowns this long?

[naatural]

To be honest SWIM thinks its possible this might be depression brought on by something else. Obviously mdma doesn't help, but maybe SWIY is too quick to blame the recent troubles on a night of mandy. Is it possible to focus on positive things/keep yourself busy etc... or is that impossible (which can happen SWIM has felt it for 1 day only but better make sure).

There was a time (caused by mdma) when a single reassuring phonecall from a close friend made SWIM go from wanting to kill himself (he wouldn't really because he kept repeating to himself "it's only a comedown") to feeling quite happy and going out to shop for food . SWIY should try talking to the people he took mdma with that might help...


Hope he feels better soon!

Reputation Comments on this post:

good advice

[zilalti]

SWIM considered that it might be reactionary depression but the extent and the effects of this are too different. Most of the time SWIM feels down but on occasion SWIM may 'come up' as it were and will feel tingly as if coming up on the drug again.

Now SWIM is having more mood swings than constant depression but never normal moods. SWIM phoned an health advice line who told him to wait a few days and if the symptoms persisted to seek medical help. But Swim has just started Uni so will have to wait a few weeks before he can sort out a doctor.

SWIM also forgot to mention that he took Ketamine that night as well and is wondering if it could be a contributing factor to his problems?

Thanks for listening to SWIM ramble

[radagast]

Try to find 5HTP you can get it in health food shops it worked wonders for swims midweek blues as it helps replace some of the things lost on the weekend.
Also if you take it beforehand aswell next time it eases the come up and makes the whole experience far more enjoyable.

[zilalti]

I asked for 5HTP in a pharmacy the other day and the guy didn't know it existed. He then asked his co worker who said its only really sold in America. Do any of you know what its sold under in the UK?

[kareena]

Holland and Barrett, a health food shop in most UK towns, sell 5-HTP. Or at least the ones swim's been to.

[ramjet]

My friend gurner has experienced depressed mood, lack of motivation and adhedonia for up to a week after an MDMA session (or two). If he has a heavy session it is normal for him to feel dazed but with a slightly unplifted mood the next day, a little low the second day, and at his lowest on the third day, slowly recovering on 4th and 5th days. This is probably a sign that Gurner has done too much. In this case he usually feels mostly normal after a week but only fully emotionally recovered after 2 weeks. If Gurner keeps it to 2 - 3 clean, medium strength pills or approximately two doses of 150mg of MDMA crystal then the comedown is not so noticable (his tolerance is quite high).

Gurner tells me he has not done any MDMA or pills for over a month now and feels right as rain. He has been using MDMA for about 6 years (more frequently in the last two). He has not experienced any long term side effects as yet. He is very happy with his life at the moment and has a job that motivates him and keeps him focused, and he thinks this may have something to do with the fact his mood always eventually returns to a happy equilibrium.

I may post a more extended retrospective commentary about his use at some point in the future.

[zilalti]

Its been 3 or 4 months since swims last post and just though id say whats going on with SWIM. SWIM went to a doctor several times who was very helpful and told swim that he had not damaged his brain from the drug but more likely uncovered a mild depression or 'knocked my self off track' which swim should get over. However in the last few months Swims symptoms have died down but the distinct ups and downs are still present.

Although swim now thinks he may have depression he is still confused why he still has these up times as well as down. Swim described this to the doctor who said he did not know as it wasn't anything like the symptoms of manic depression. Also the fact that these up time and down times occur every day or so also confuses swim. Swim assumed that depression was a continuous thing not an on and off.

What do you think of Swims condition. Do you think it is likely it could be connected to the substances that he took? Thankyou for listening to swims ramblings

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for follow-up

[Lettish]

My friend says this could also be due to surrounding factors such as it's the start of the new year, money could be tight/difficult after Christmas, it's back to work for a long time, etc. January is the highest month for depression.

[radagast]

If this happens daily at seemingly set times you could try eating little and often or maybe even get checked out for diabetes.

[jmakin]

Originally Posted by zilalti

Its been 3 or 4 months since swims last post and just though id say whats going on with SWIM. SWIM went to a doctor several times who was very helpful and told swim that he had not damaged his brain from the drug but more likely uncovered a mild depression or 'knocked my self off track' which swim should get over. However in the last few months Swims symptoms have died down but the distinct ups and downs are still present.

Although swim now thinks he may have depression he is still confused why he still has these up times as well as down. Swim described this to the doctor who said he did not know as it wasn't anything like the symptoms of manic depression. Also the fact that these up time and down times occur every day or so also confuses swim. Swim assumed that depression was a continuous thing not an on and off.

What do you think of Swims condition. Do you think it is likely it could be connected to the substances that he took? Thankyou for listening to swims ramblings

Contrary to a lot of people's perceived view of the disease and was mine for a long time, depression is VERY on again off again, in fact, that is a necessary symptom to be diagnosed with it, there are distinct "periods" of down - feeling. Then you come back up, to a normal level anyway, then plummet down again. Chemicals are offbalance in your brain, and medication and therapy is really the only way to help it, not drugs. not these, anyway.

As to whether SWIY's consumption of MDMA is connected with swiy's depression in anyway, it is very likely so in SWIM's opinion, (he does not know or profess to know much about depression or the mind or anything, this is just a personal thought from things he has read)

'cause as far as i know, SSRI's work to regulate your serotonin levels, it's believed that depression is linked to low serotonin levels, and as many know all too well, that MDMA has a LOT to do with serotonin, swim is too buzzed to remember how exactly but if swiy has a disease concerning a low level of that chemical, common sense would dictate that it's probably not a good idea to mess with anything that would fuck with that chemical, like MDMA, which has been shown to damage serotonin receptors, which would make swiy's chance of recovery worse anyway if swiy does indeed suffer from depression, and it may be possible, at least in SWIM's mind, that damaging these receptors could potentially create an ideal situation for depression to show it's ugly head, but it is also a genetic thing too, so swiy needs to look at close relatives mental history and he'll probably find that others have the same thing he's dealing with. swim's probably talking out his ass here, so feel free to correct his mis-information, he loves learning about this stuff.

swim hopes he could help at least a little, read up on it, it's interesting stuff, especialy when you realize things about yourself and your own mind, fascinating

Reputation Comments on this post:

valuable addition to topic

[Mr. Giraffe]

Originally Posted by jmakin

'cause as far as i know, SSRI's work to regulate your serotonin levels, it's believed that depression is linked to low serotonin levels, and as many know all too well, that MDMA has a LOT to do with serotonin, swim is too buzzed to remember how exactly

There's an excellent basic and easy to follow presentation of the effects of different drugs on the brain here: http://www.dap.ie/drugs_brain/start.htm

I'm not a scientist, but I would agree that it is sadly quite likely that your depression is directly related to your MDMA intake. As jmakin said, MDMA produces its desired effects by manipulating your seratonin levels. It blocks and reverses certain brain functions and essentially orders your brain to dump seratonin into your synpases. This is all well and good while you're tripping balls but the trade off - the come down - is that your body is low on seratonin for a longer and longer periods of time after each experience. And with each episode, your brain's natural mechanism are being further weakened by the MDMA.

It's a topic of hot debate but I'm pretty convinced by the evidence which suggests that somewhere between 4 and 8 MDMA trips will induce irreversible brain damage. Certainly, heavy and frequent MDMA use gives the brain little chance to recover, and long term use is likely to prove extremely harmful to health (of course, we don't know lifetime prevalence info yet).