Combinations - Hallucinogens and Mood Stablisers

[FuBai]

When taking an hallucinogenic drug one risks having a terrifying or confusing experience, although the aim is obviously to have an enjoyable one. Some people attempt to reduce the likley hood of a bad trip by looking at Shulgin's ideas of set and setting; I will assume, taking into account the nature of the forum, that these will not need to be explained.

Firstly the setting is a mood stabiliser which is obvious to control - taking hallucinogens in places where one feels safe, comfortable and relaxed; such places should not be too hard to identify.

It is the idea of controlling the 'set' that interests me (academicaly only). In terms of regulating one's own emotion so that one does not become overwhelmed by the experience. We have some obvious substances available in the form of SSRIs, MAOIs and Lithium and Typtamine based Anti-depressants. The problem with all of these is that a build up time of at least two weeks is neccesary before the mood stablisation effect is achieved and the even greater problem with SSRIs and MAOIs is that they do not react well to hallucinogens and SSRIs in particular have been shown to supress the effects of hallucinogens. Whilst there is some evidence to suggest that Lithium and Tryptamine based anti-depressants enhance the hallucinogenic experience, they are not a practical choice for most.

Substances that raise or maintain an even mood that act in the short term have been used before - MDMA is commonly used in conjuntion with LSD to create a "Candy Flip". Short term mood altaring substances would tend to change, I should imagine, the basic experience of the LSD; so the question is what mood stabiliser does SWIY prefer, and why?

On a secondary note I find very sparse reports of opiate use in conjuntion with Hallucinogens. This is something I find very surprising, considering the euphoric qualities of opiates such as Diamorphine, one would imagine it would be the perfect drug to act as a mood stabiliser.

[Nagognog2]

Trying to counteract the very nature of the psychedelic seems to Bongo to be ridiculous. Remember the quote from Humphrey Osmond: "To fathom Hell or soar Angelic, just take a pinch of psychedelic."

Certainly set and setting are important to eliciting a good trip on such. You don't want to take your first trip on a city bus surrounded by pukimng winos and kids blasting rotten music. But, more importanly, you need to be prepared to see all the things you have in your head: Devils & Angels. Good & Bad. Positive & Negative. - and see these magnified. This is the nature of the experience.

Taking a psychedelic as an escape from what's bothering you is like trying to cure a headache with a hammer applied to one's head.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Trying to counteract the very nature of the psychedelic seems to Bongo to be ridiculous. Remember the quote from Humphrey Osmond: "To fathom Hell or soar Angelic, just take a pinch of psychedelic."

Certainly set and setting are important to eliciting a good trip on such. You don't want to take your first trip on a city bus surrounded by pukimng winos and kids blasting rotten music. But, more importanly, you need to be prepared to see all the things you have in your head: Devils & Angels. Good & Bad. Positive & Negative. - and see these magnified. This is the nature of the experience.

Taking a psychedelic as an escape from what's bothering you is like trying to cure a headache with a hammer applied to one's head.

You have essentialy pointed out one perspective or method of approach used by some people who see the psychedelic experience as something semi-religious in nature or, rather, an exploratory or possibly life changing experience. In this use the hallucinogen is almost a sacrament. Others simply want to see crazy things and have a good time doing so. For the latter it is important to reduce the chance of a negative experience as much as possible, because one is not looking to journey or explore, simply to have fun. It is possible to claim that this is an irresponsible use of hallucinogens but I think that a case of that sort would be difficult to mount whilst not attacking the use of MDMA and mood altering substances in isolation.

On the latter note taking any drug to try and escape from any problems is a road bound for addiction and despair. Drugs used responsibly can be used to help deal with and discuss problems - MDMA is excellent for Post Traumatic Stress, LSD and Psilocybin have demonstrable benefits in dealing with depression amoungst the terminaly ill - the list goes on but the fact is that they are used succesfully for the resolution of problems, and unsuccesfuly as a form of escapism, a situation in which they compound rather than resolve problems.

[smiz]

Even if one were to take psychedelics in hopes of only a "good time," one can't expect to completely rule out all of the frightening/unsettling elements. For any other drug, Swim can see where this is wanted though. However, in Swim's opinion, taking psychedelics just for the fun of it includes each and every aspect, the good and the bad. Maybe that's not ideal, but it's part of the experience, since the substances produce a high like nothing else. When Swim watches a scary movie, he doesn't try to make it all fun and games - He likes to get scared. Basically, Swim doesn't have any suggestions for a mood stabilizer -- just offering his opinion on the matter.

[Nagognog2]

I was not attempting to use theological interpretations - but the use of "Heaven & Hell" are understood by virtually all people. Even dyed-in-the-wool atheists get the gestalt.

Regards a drug that acts as a psychedelic - or hallucinogen if you prefer (inaccurate) -that just gives you a picture show without the chance of encountering some items in one's inventory that may be rather disturbing, I can't think of one that would be guarenteed to do this. A walloping dose of DMT might work as it's so fast, most monkeys wouldn't have a chance to freak before they were washed up in the experience. But my point is simply that one needs to be mature enough to understand the nature of what a psychedelic is all about. Drop acid with your friends at 16 and go bowling? First time out of the gate? I would council not.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

I was not attempting to use theological interpretations - but the use of "Heaven & Hell" are understood by virtually all people. Even dyed-in-the-wool atheists get the gestalt.

Regards a drug that acts as a psychedelic - or hallucinogen if you prefer (inaccurate) -that just gives you a picture show without the chance of encountering some items in one's inventory that may be rather disturbing, I can't think of one that would be guarenteed to do this. A walloping dose of DMT might work as it's so fast, most monkeys wouldn't have a chance to freak before they were washed up in the experience. But my point is simply that one needs to be mature enough to understand the nature of what a psychedelic is all about. Drop acid with your friends at 16 and go bowling? First time out of the gate? I would council not.

But you would admit that a drug that relaxes or creates a euphoric feeling could be used to reduce the chances of freaking out. I was reading a report on erowid just yesterday that suggested the use of benzos as an 'out', which is slightly different but illustrates the general idea. "The intention was for an initial foray into the effects of this pharmaceutical, and to keep the remainder as a remedy for relatively drastic psychedelic situations (i.e. as a tranquilizer). This use of diazepam has been well documented."

[Nagognog2]

Well yes. One could pre-dose with a benzo to maybe lower the risk of having a negative reaction should the bogeyman pop up. And benzos are the prefered remedy (unlike Thorazine - chlorpromazine was in the 1960's) for emergency situations. But I feel that with proper preparation, the bogeyman can be a friend and teacher to the person, rather than a scary nemesis. The nature of the psychedelic experience is to learn about one's mind. That is the most rewarding for one who is grown up enough to appreciate these things in what I have read and observed.

Perhaps a new class of drugs needs to be invented for producing euphoria and visuals without causing any introspection...hmm....

[smiz]

Swim has taken benzos (xanax) prior to taking LSD. And yes, it did negate most negative effects in the fact that Swim felt totally uninhibited and freely wandered beyond his friend's neighborhood in the early morning. Swim feels like it's only really useful in times of emergency or to completely abort mission. This is probably due to the fact that benzos tend to cause black outs which is why Swim likes to stay away from them mostly. They don't go hand-in-hand with Alice for a real trip. Unless perhaps you take a smaller dose, which might have been Swim's folly. Do it if you must though.

[FuBai]

Originally Posted by smiz

Swim has taken benzos (xanax) prior to taking LSD. And yes, it did negate most negative effects in the fact that Swim felt totally uninhibited and freely wandered beyond his friend's neighborhood in the early morning. Swim feels like it's only really useful in times of emergency or to completely abort mission. This is probably due to the fact that benzos tend to cause black outs which is why Swim likes to stay away from them mostly. They don't go hand-in-hand with Alice for a real trip. Unless perhaps you take a smaller dose, which might have been Swim's folly. Do it if you must though.

My interest in this field is academic only - I was not recomending using mood stabilisers but I was asking for reports/experiences and opinions on the matter. For instance things like alcohol, cannabis or cocaine I can imagine as being very bad mood stabilisers because of thier ability to cause paranoia/depression as part of the experience, whilst tobacco, mdma and opiates I could see as working against the negative effects.