How did Shulgin escape addiction?

[Dalfir]

When working with an infinity supply of the most iconic and fabled drugs around? Or is it a kind of "xxx isn't addictive, I would know. I've been doing it for twenty years." scenario?

[shagra]

Originally Posted by Dalfir

Or is it a kind of "xxx isn't addictive, I would know. I've been doing it for twenty years." scenario?

swim couldn't imagine getting hooked to that pile of 2cs.

[enquirewithin]

He did say that it was something you could get to like a lot, or something to that effect, but MDMA isn't usually addictive (very few people have become addicted and those do are poly-drug users). The effects get less euphoric, the after effects worse the more it is taken.

Anne Shulgin took it as a stimulant to write parts of TIHKAL, but she said that spoiled it for and she no longer took it.

[fnord]

while addiction wouldent be the right word swif would deffinitly be tripping 80% of the time the other 20%he would be working on new chems to restore his nerotransmitter levels to normal states quicker so that he could trip non-stop.

[Digemlo]

Because addiction will only exist so long as people continue to believe in it.



The Shulgins are likely intelligent to be able to overcome it conceptually.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very well said, and no, you didn't come across as an asshole.

[Digemlo]

(blah hey sorry, I didn't mean to come off like an asshole in that last post)

[silenius]

I understood that they were not in it for the effects per se, but in the exploration of chemistry and mind. I could imagine that they simply were curious enough to try to find/check more substances and sane enough to know that the empiric data you gather for substance A is invalid when you are already on substance B (simple case: building up cross-tolerances).

[Zaprenz]

If you have the chemical know how, the equipment, the possibilities to design new similar drugs - that is more addictive that the drugs themselves - understanding the unknown.


Very few people have the patience and apptitude but its also the opportunities, what was done in PIHKAL & TIHKAL was originally far more open when he would have started researching. It would have been science & the love of what he was doing that might have been the addiction. As ever though when things are pushed underground more of the negative qualities of these compounds are exagerated.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Addiction just isn't a big problem when it comes to psychedellic users.Swim can't offhand think of any truly addictive psychedellic.Ketamine might come close but that is more of a disassosciative and the same goes for dxm.

[Paracelsus]

While some people seem to get addicted to certain psychedelics (particularly those which don't cause tolerance), others can use opiates responsibly without any problems.

The predisposition to addiction lies only partly in heredity (although nowadays we like to blame anything on the genes - from obesity to cancer). The main reason why people get addicted to something lies in the reason why one uses a particular drug. If one drinks coffee for energy and wants to stay energized all day, odds are that that person may become addicted (many are - too many). The same stands for alcohol and opiates - if somebody uses either to escape a miserable/painful reality, that person is very likely to become an alcoholic/opiate addict. If one uses them for occasional recreation, the probability of becoming an addict is much lower. It starts to get dangerous when all one can think about is drugs.

Reputation Comments on this post:

gave me a new perspective on addiction

[fnord]

swim would say that at least for him tripping is addictive not to the point of physical dependancy but if he had a choice he would trip everyday,ow wait he almost does he takes low doses of mushrooms for therapeutic/psychiatric reasons.but he understands what you mean for 99.99% of the world trips are not considered addictive.

[Swimster]

Definately, you should believe the Shul's could resist ruining there career! swim personally could never ruin it for this reason, but also, almost all pschedelics are non-addictive!

[Jacco]

Let's separate physical and psychological dependency.

No hallucinogen is physically addictive, unless you count the amphetamines (and that's really the syndrome of amphetamine psychosis.)
I can see how psychedelics could be psychologically dependent, but the Shulgins I believe are much to strong to fall prey to their own creations... besides, so many of their substances are so unpleasant that they may be wary to take the same ones alot.

[Swimster]

...lol, if this were a governmental thread, you could bet that this topic would be a real mystery. "hmm.. all those drugs, yet...". Those of you who may also wonder why no addiction occured probably listen too much to the Gov... swim personaly sees psychedelics as tools rather than drugs.

[fnord]

and as said before their addiction is to their science not tripping,tripping is just an added benefit of their love.swim loves growing psychoactive plants yet hates salvia but he grows it any ways just because he loves the idea of growing his own psychedelics.

[Swimster]

Originally Posted by fnord

swim loves growing psychoactive plants yet hates salvia but he grows it any ways just because he loves the idea of growing his own psychedelics.

lol, swim agree's. Swim loves the idea of creating psychoactive substances. Even if swim didn't enjoy them it somehow makes swim think he's special. Also because there is money to be made. on the contrary, swim loves all substances that he cultivated/synthed.

double the fun.

[dr ACE]

swim thinks most of the substances in the Shulgin's two books,were and must be considered as possibly therapy tools/drugs. Which in the right environment could be use to help people understand why they are addicted to the more common illegal drugs,and help individuals with other life affecting disorders. Maybe that is one of the main reasons these kind of psychedelic drugs are illegal and shunned by most of society.

because it's makes most people feel better about there own addictions to legal drugs to be able to stigmatize and judge individuals who are 'addicted' to 'illegal' 'dangerous drugs'

[Swimster]

swim thinks most of the substances in the Shulgin's two books,were and must be considered as possibly therapy tools/drugs. Which in the right environment could be use to help people understand why they are addicted to the more common illegal drugs,and help individuals with other life affecting disorders.

swim totaly agrees, with the addition of spirituality.

[dsl39uf]

Coming from somebody who has taken MDMA, MDA, 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-C, and 5-MeO-DiPT (among others), SWIM can say that if anything, these substances are counter-addictive. They are the kinds of drugs that once you take too much, you will never want to take them again. SWIM could live a long happy life without ever seeing another speck of these chemicals. But SWIM would have some serious fucking problems if they never got to take their amphetamines again.

[stoneinfocus]

Originally Posted by Dalfir

When working with an infinity supply of the most iconic and fabled drugs around? Or is it a kind of "xxx isn't addictive, I would know. I've been doing it for twenty years." scenario?

themost addicitve drugs are legal, PEAs and Amphetamines don´t posses any physical addiction potential, and once you´re old enough and got a live these things just benefit this life but will never devour it.

[JDreaming]

Psychedelics just produce a different cycle of habituation then other drugs. Psychedelic explorers do not require constant effects and can usually stop using any drug they feel they are done with without difficulty. I suspect most of the things Shulgin worked with he probably tried until he knew exactly what they were, then left them to work on other things. When you read the stories of drug use in Sasha's books, it is clear that despite having hundreds of drugs to choose from, he was not using them every day. He was probably processing information from previous psychedelic experiences almost constantly, since chemicals like this can have a subtle impact on one's life even after the drug experience itself has ended... but with enough care this can become a program of self-improvement.

If anything I am amazed at how lucid and professional the Shulgin's have been in spite of all the baffling things they have invented and experienced... worrying about them getting "in too deep" at this point would be ridiculous.