Monkey business: love, drugs, and problems of principles

[Heretic.Ape.]

So monkey has spent the last year or so with this issue on the back of his mind and is wondering what others think. He considers the psychedelic experience to be basically his religion, his spiritual grounding, and considers sacred mushrooms to be a very important sacrament. He does not use them recreationally because for him, personally, it seems trite to trip for fun after some of the more... serious for lack of a better word, experiences he's had with them. He considers it a big part of his life to be able to grow a batch or two a year to occasionally seek that union, grounding, and guidance he receives in the beshroomed state. For years he was very into recreational drugs of all types and still enjoys them but drugs for kicks are not an integral part of his life any longer.
Monkey had a failed engagement with a girl who he still loves and thinks a good deal of the failure may have had to do with the fact that he considers his psychedelic sacrament so integral to his way of life. The girl did not like the idea of him having anything to do with illegal substances and considered it very irresponsible and perhaps unloving of him that he would put himself, her, and their future children's lives at risk of serious problems just to keep up his heretical religious practices. This is a perfectly valid point. But he's kind of a stubborn monkey about being cowed into giving up things that are important to him only because of potential risk that he views as highly unlikely because he can grow his mushrooms very easily and quietly. He doesn't even like to buy from people because he does not like being involved in the "criminal" aspect of things--dealers, worrying about cops, etc.
A very central aspect of monkey's character is that he will willingly risk everything to live freely as he sees fit. He sees the crux of the issue as the two of them differing in basic drive. He wants freedom at any cost. She wants security above all. He broke off the engagement because he felt these two primary characteristics would ultimately prove incompatible.
It is not as simple a question as psychedelics or girl, it is an issue of fundamental values that two people do not share, but the psychedelic issue simply brought the issue to a sort of tangible head.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? Even if not, monkey just needs to vent his twisted thoughts a bit

[chrisn]

My dragon is a bit like your monkey, while he doesn't see psychedelics as a sacrament per se, he sees them as an important tool in the development of his mind and feels like they will be useful his entire life. Currently he is in college, and doesn't really have any responsibilities that would prevent him from consuming these psychedelics, but he really wonders about the future.

Certainly when he has kids, doing anything to risk the family's stability would be bad. And no matter how safe one is with their drug practices, there's no getting past the fact that lsd and mushrooms are illegal (just possession being a felony!), and pretty much all other psychedelics are at least in a legal gray area.

Dragon's in a relationship with a girl who originally held the position of drugs=evil, but over time she's come to accept the drugs dragon uses, marijuana and psychedelics, and had her first psychedelic voyage last Saturday actually!

So really since I completely agree with you I don't have anything to add to your post, it's a frustrating issue, and I can only hope that governments show some sign of sense by the time my dragon's ready to have kids.

[wreckreational]

Swim feels for your monkeys situation, is there no give on her side at all? Could your monkey perhaps grow at a friends for say half the yeild, there by creating a safer envinroment for her. Then have a weekend get away a couple times a year. Just seems a shame to throw away a meaningful relationship if thats all thats wrong.

[Heretic.Ape.]

It's a tangled issue. When the issue first arose monkey figured "oh well, I'll just find new ways to explore the antipodes of my mind--lucid dreaming, meditation, self-hypnosis, shamanic drumming, holotropic breathwork; somethings got to work". But the issue kept nagging at him. He began worrying about the fundamental difference that these conflicting sides of the issue represented. If you haven't been able to tell, monkey is by nature an iconoclast and has spent his entire life to the pursuit of toppling oppressive ideologies and blowing peoples minds. He's the sort who is bound to get in trouble in one form or another, get run out of town on the proverbial rail. He didn't want to subject someone who wanted a secure, stable life to the type of life that he likely will not be able to avoid. He needs someone who will come bail him out of jail after getting the shit kicked out of him by the cops at a demonstration and pour booze down his throat to ease the pain .
Also he felt that he had been increasingly giving up his values to make her more comfortable. He had changed his entire lifestyle and that really bothered him when he started thinking about how much he'd tried to change and he started worrying "where does it end?" How much can one change for the sake of making someone happy before they have completely sold themselves out, lost their identity, and just end up being unhappy and making life miserable for both of them?
Well, when all of that hit, monkey split. But he didn't count on being so hung up on this chick after all this time. It's been like two years and he still thinks about her every day, every day. It's kind of starting to drive him a little crazy. It's always hard to look at one's own thoughts and situation objectively or with fresh eyes and since I'm so close to monkey I'm not much help. So thanks for your replies

Reputation Comments on this post:

Wow.. I can relate so much to your post

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by Heretic.ape.

Also he felt that he had been increasingly giving up his values to make her more comfortable. He had changed his entire lifestyle and that really bothered him when he started thinking about how much he'd tried to change and he started worrying "where does it end?" How much can one change for the sake of making someone happy before they have completely sold themselves out, lost their identity, and just end up being unhappy and making life miserable for both of them?

I swear by the statement that:

If someone changes essential parts of your identity, then you are no longer you. Then you can no longer give yourself to your partner, because there is no you to give. As soon as an essential part of your identity has been compromised by a relationship, the relationship is on the road to it's death or to deep unhappiness.

If someone loves you, then he/she should be able to accept the truly essential parts of your character.

Since two years have past, why not touch base and slowly scan the below surface to see if understanding of the above can be found?
I can imagine the monkey may be in a new position now allowing a loser relationship and may be able to reserve the use of his sacraments to times and places outside of the girl's live.

[El Calico Loco]

I feel you. Swim will never give up psychedelics - they saved his long-term relationship, his sanity, and perhaps his life. He remains agnostic about his spiritual experiences - perhaps stubbornly so - but he certainly doesn't scoff when someone claims a trip brought them closer to god, gaia, or the single organism that is the universe.


ECL

[LookingForHer]

Originally Posted by Heretic.Ape.

It's been like two years and he still thinks about her every day, every day

I've been through that sort of thing.

Time doesn't heal all, but knowledge does. Seek the the knowledge you need and you can heal your heart. The knowledge, may be part of a greater whole that is far more consequential and mind-transforming than just a one-off little fix.

For example, I learnt a theory about people which helped me get over many broken relationships in the past. Simple theories with diagrams. I find the diagrams help OK so I did invent the theories myself, but... still they helped me, and I keep refering to them again and again in new situations, and they do heal me. It's so useful.

[wreckreational]

sucks for monkey. might be time to reevauate. don't mean for this to be callus but sounds like its really bothering him

[Heretic.Ape.]

hmm, actually I think monkey just getting the issue out in this burst of exhibitionism has proven cathartic, he's feeling more serene and clear headed about it already

[wreckreational]

glad to hear it

[Lunar Loops]

It's a difficult one and one with which the yak can truly sympathise, finding himself as he does in a VERY similar situation. The yakess is an otherwise intelligent woman, but ALL (and he's been down every avenue) attempts at fostering understanding fall on fallow ground. The main gripe centres around illegality and the fact that she has three impressionable young yaks to consider. The yak still has the occasional shifty nosebag and and burns the ceremonial bush every so often, but not as often and as freely as he would like and there are other recreational forays that are just not possible in the current environment.

It's troubling as he does love the yakess, but also like SWIH's monkey he has a sense of something being not quite right....sometimes he thinks this is a trifling matter and others he thinks it is a hurdle to end all hurdles. The yakess points out that she is more tolerant than most of the female herd in these barren pastures, but that sometimes sounds rather empty.

The yak thinks the monkey probably made the right choice at this time in his life, but he's still unsure about himself.

[eltimmy]

>If someone changes essential parts of your identity, then you are no longer you. Then you can no longer give yourself to your partner, because there is no you to give. As soon as an essential part of your identity has been compromised by a relationship, the relationship is on the road to it's death or to deep unhappiness.

I disagree. Everyone acts differently in different situations, and people change daily. I'm not the exact same person I was a year ago, though aspects of the pattern remain. Nothing has been stolen.

I'm of the philosophical opinion that the thing we are talking about when we usually speak of the "self" exists mostly within relationships with others.

[Mint boi]

Originally Posted by eltimmy

I disagree. Everyone acts differently in different situations, and people change daily.

But what you're refering to is the natural change that happens due to our experiances and interactions, its different when someone specifically goes out and forces their swimmer to change a part of themselves.

[LookingForHer]

Originally Posted by Heretic.Ape.

A very central aspect of monkey's character is that he will willingly risk everything to live freely as he sees fit. He sees the crux of the issue as the two of them differing in basic drive. He wants freedom at any cost. She wants security above all. He broke off the engagement because he felt these two primary characteristics would ultimately prove incompatible.
It is not as simple a question as psychedelics or girl, it is an issue of fundamental values that two people do not share, but the psychedelic issue simply brought the issue to a sort of tangible head.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? Even if not, monkey just needs to vent his twisted thoughts a bit

It's a sad situation.

But you did the right thing.

The only problem was that you did not find someone as open minded as yourself. Mushrooms if used in a sacred manner are highly beneficial. It cannot be illegal to commune with the Universe, any such mad system that would make it illegal needs to be destroyed.

Good luck in finding another who lets you be yourself and understands.