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  #1  
Old 30-08-2007, 20:34
JaWill88 JaWill88 is offline
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difference between tar and powder

all SWIM gets is black tar. SWIM has never even seen powdered heroin except in pictures. powder just isn't around much in washington and west side of the states i guess. SWIM knows it takes way more tar than it would powder. lets say SWIY has pretty much pure tar and pretty much pure powder. what would the difference be in dosages?
  #2  
Old 31-10-2007, 09:12
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Re: difference between tar and powder

HUGE HUGE HUGE differences. Tar = opium. Heroin = opium + tons of chemical processess and cleaning, to strengthen the tar. 1 gram of tar might give the same feeling as a SMALL bump of H.

If you're dying to try H but can't find it, look for OxyContins (a perscription painkiller) and bump like 30-40mg at once. It'll hit you faster than tar and give you a much much more euphoric feeling. After this, you will NEVER EVER enjoy opium, so be sure you wan't to ruin tar before you become addicted to H

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black tar heroin is not opium
False information. Opium is a combination of several different things and is not the same thing as black tar heroin.
Please do basic research before posting fallacies
This really is not good advice. Black tar heroin is very far from being anything near heroin. There is codeine, morphine, thebaine, and narcotine in opium. Not really even close to being heroin!
  #3  
Old 31-10-2007, 10:11
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Black tar is still heroin, it is not opium.

Mexican organizations used less-refined morphine and also substituted primary chemicals in the synthesis, this is why black tar has its appearance and is of lower quality than powder heroin.

Does SWIY really find Oxycodone in the UK? This is very very rare.

Last edited by rocksmokinmachine; 31-10-2007 at 10:20. Reason: more clarification needed
  #4  
Old 31-10-2007, 10:50
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocksmokinmachine View Post
Black tar is still heroin, it is not opium.

Mexican organizations used less-refined morphine and also substituted primary chemicals in the synthesis, this is why black tar has its appearance and is of lower quality than powder heroin.

Does SWIY really find Oxycodone in the UK? This is very very rare.
By Oxcodone, do you really mean Oxycontin? And no, I guess you're right, SWIM doesn't find OCs in the UK; he has to get them shipped in from the states when he used to be addicted to them.

If one reads how to make heroin from opium, you'll see the "black tar" is really either opium itsself or some barely-refined opium. Black tar does not equal heroin. although many people believe it does do the same thing, heroin is so much stronger it's really a joke. SWIM has snorted heroin and smoked black tar several times within days of doing each other and is sure around 1gram of black tar eaten will produce effects similar to that of 1 small line of H; don't expect to fade back and have a full body orgasm, but definitely expect to feel chilled out and euphoric.

If SWIY is looking for codiene in the UK rather than oxycontin, that shit is more readily available in the Uk than any other country in the world.

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Once again, this post contains false information. Black tar is a form of heroin, not "barely refined opium"
Oxycodone *is* OxyContin.. and come on, black tar is heroin..
  #5  
Old 31-10-2007, 10:55
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

1) Oxycontin IS controlled release oxycodone. Oxycontin is a BRAND name

2) Black tar is infact, heroin.

Does SWIY have any sort of source, or citation saying black tar is opium, no SWIM thinks not.

Does SWIY really snort the UK heroin, this is infact very wasteful as it is in base form. Snorting is very ineffective. It is meant for smoking. It can be injected but must be dissolved in a weak acid such as citric acid, or ascorbic acid first.

Is SWIY aware that codeine phosphate is a prescription only drug in the UK? Unless in paracetamol/codeine preperations of 500mg/8mg respectively?

Last edited by Alfa; 25-10-2009 at 03:06.
  #6  
Old 31-10-2007, 11:01
crystalx crystalx is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

1) when I say OCs, I mean a highly concentrated form of oxycodone. I have never ever seen any other form of concentrated oxycodone than in an OxyContin pill (or it's generic version). Please let me know if there are other ways this drug is sold as I have never heard of them.

2) Black tar is infact, the cheapest form of heroin ever. Wikipedia says it's the most common form of H in the USA, but I find that hard to image as this black tar is like a tease compared to pure H. it's like they made opium, decided they wanted to try and make H, and then was like "screw this" after they realized they just wanted to sell it quick and make money.

Sources? SWIM will use his last 10 years of world-wide experience as a source.
  #7  
Old 31-10-2007, 11:06
crystalx crystalx is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Here, this might help:

Another form of heroin known as "black tar" is available in the western United States. Black tar heroin, which is produced only in Mexico, may be sticky like roofing tar or hard like coal, and its color may vary from dark brown to black. The color and consistency of black tar heroin result from the crude processing methods used to manufacture heroin in Mexico. Black tar heroin is often sold on the street in its tar-like state at purities ranging from 20 to 80 percent. It is most frequently dissolved, diluted, and injected.
  #8  
Old 31-10-2007, 11:09
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

What??? SWIY has just proved my point exactly. It is because of crude manufacturing process that black tar heroin is what it is, and it is exactly that HEROIN! Not opium! SWIY has contradicted himself again. Please stop spreading misinformation.

"you'll see the "black tar" is really either opium itsself or some barely-refined opium"

"The color and consistency of black tar heroin result from the crude processing methods used to manufacture heroin in Mexico"

There are instant release oxycodone available. I think SWIY really needs to do his homework before posting again here.

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Thank you for correcting this fountain of misinformation

Last edited by rocksmokinmachine; 31-10-2007 at 11:15.
  #9  
Old 31-10-2007, 11:14
Tortoise Tortoise is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalx View Post
SWIM has snorted heroin and smoked black tar several times within days of doing each other and is sure around 1gram of black tar eaten will produce effects similar to that of 1 small line of H
Swiy does realise that heroin, once eaten converts into morphine before entering the bloodstream, therefore is wasteful if eaten?
  #10  
Old 31-10-2007, 21:01
jerbles jerbles is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

wow crystalx... you really don't seem very smart, as you did totally just disprove what you were trying to prove. Black tar is just shitty heroin, really, but it's a lot cheaper than "pure h" or powders, such as China White, so when it comes down to it, you pretty much get the same amount of heroin. Also, while China White is usually, say, 70% heroin, the other 30% is just cut. Black tar however, might be 30% heroin, but the other 70% is other opiates left over from the opium, rather than just cut. There usually is a little cut in black tar, but it's harder to do as it is black tar.
  #11  
Old 31-10-2007, 21:47
Psych0nautPlatinum member Psych0naut is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Black tar heroin is acetylated opium. Heroin is made by acetylating morphine with acetic acid anhydride. If this is done on pure morphine, extracted from opium, than one ends op with powder heroin. If this is done with opium, without purification of the morphine, one ends up with a product that looks pretty similar to the starting product, opium, which is black tar heroin. Really nasty stuff to inject, since it unrefined and so still contains all the plant material.

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Very succinct explanation!
awsome. some scientific info. thanks!
Succinct and accurate
Im glad someone was willing to explain this thuroughly
  #12  
Old 01-11-2007, 05:25
Tortoise Tortoise is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych0naut View Post
Black tar heroin is acetylated opium. Heroin is made by acetylating morphine with acetic acid anhydride. If this is done on pure morphine, extracted from opium, than one ends op with powder heroin. If this is done with opium, without purification of the morphine, one ends up with a product that looks pretty similar to the starting product, opium, which is black tar heroin. Really nasty stuff to inject, since it unrefined and so still contains all the plant material.
Thanks Psychnaut. That is a perfect explanation!
  #13  
Old 01-11-2007, 09:23
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

I was always under the impression that it wasn't acetylated opium just that the morphine was less refined before acetylation, producing the gummy consitancy.
  #14  
Old 02-11-2007, 10:01
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

I just got a definition from wikipedia.

"Mexican drug syndicates were producing heroin by the mid-1960s. Lacking the experience in chemistry that other syndicates had gained through years of illicit heroin production, Mexican organizations used less-refined morphine and also substituted primary chemicals in synthesis"

Last edited by Alfa; 25-10-2009 at 03:07.
  #15  
Old 03-11-2007, 10:34
Psych0nautPlatinum member Psych0naut is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Black tar heroin is often sticky because it still contains all the plant fats, and it also often looks the same as opium, that's because it's just acetylated opium. It is sometimes partially refined, but it's usually in the form of sticky, gummy tar, unrefined, acetylated opium. Here are some pictures of black tar heroin:
heroin_tar__i2006e0997_disp.jpg
heroin4.jpg
heroin_tar__i2005e1425_disp.jpg
The last one looks like it has been somewhat refined, though it still has the concistency of tar. The reason black tar heroin sticks together is because it still contans the gummy plant fats, heroin made from refined morphine is a powder.
  #16  
Old 03-11-2007, 22:05
jerbles jerbles is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Swim always has trouble cooking black tar as it doesn't dissolve too good in water. it has to be boiled a lot, and SWIM figures he's losing dope when he boils it. Plus, there's always shit floating on top of the liquid, and swim has a hard time sucking it up in the syringe as the filter gets clogged up fast (he usually has to use two filters).

Is there a better way to cook it down?
  #17  
Old 04-11-2007, 08:38
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Maybe SWIY should try using a little bit of citric acid or vitamin C, are these available at SWIY's needle exchange?
  #18  
Old 04-11-2007, 12:00
Psych0nautPlatinum member Psych0naut is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

As I mentioned, black tar heroin often still contains all the plant fats, and other plant material, which doesn't dissolve. Fats always float on top of water and are insoluble, fortunenately. This is why one has to filter it.
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Old 04-11-2007, 13:59
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

I agree that all heroin should be filtered with a proper filter. Unless its pharmaceutically pure diamorphine. The powder heroin that dominates most of the European market is not water soluble and must be dissolved in a mild acid first. Surely this will help break down SOME impurities in tar aswell..

SWIM thinks a mild acid will help the tar dissolve a little better than just heating it in water as mentioned above, it will be my no means perfect but hopefully not waste AS much of the tar.
  #20  
Old 07-11-2007, 19:08
jerbles jerbles is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

SWIJ has been very stupid before and not filtered his tar (only about 3 times) because he didn't want to waste any in the filter (the filter always comes out black from all the tar it's absorbed, and swij hates thinking he might be wasting some of it). This was very dumb, as the shot contained all sorts of particles which is not only very bad for the veins, but also the heart and everything in general.
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Old 19-02-2011, 20:00
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Do a lot of others actually get the powder junk? My claustrophobic gerbil was telling me she used to get nice chunks of china, like little rocks, and says she never found actual powder, and would be weary of it because it could be cut with all sorts of unknown shit. She also used to get tar and said the white was way better in comparison like 1:4 in strength also she told me they would put unsoluble instant coffee and laxatives and shit in the black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerbles View Post
SWIJ has been very stupid before and not filtered his tar (only about 3 times) because he didn't want to waste any in the filter (the filter always comes out black from all the tar it's absorbed, and swij hates thinking he might be wasting some of it). This was very dumb, as the shot contained all sorts of particles which is not only very bad for the veins, but also the heart and everything in general.
-Has swiy tried doing rinses? taking a few cottons, stirring in water and then blasting? my gerbil said she used to take a bunch of saturated cottons and do a rinse and depending how many/saturation it would be a good hit, or at least get her sick off
  #22  
Old 20-02-2011, 01:20
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych0naut View Post
Black tar heroin is often sticky because it still contains all the plant fats, and it also often looks the same as opium, that's because it's just acetylated opium. It is sometimes partially refined, but it's usually in the form of sticky, gummy tar, unrefined, acetylated opium. Here are some pictures of black tar heroin:
Attachment 3499
Attachment 3500
Attachment 3501
The last one looks like it has been somewhat refined, though it still has the concistency of tar. The reason black tar heroin sticks together is because it still contans the gummy plant fats, heroin made from refined morphine is a powder.
In addition to this, contact with water - even just the moisture in the air, causes black tar heroin to 'gum up'. It can often start as a powder - see 'gunpowder tar'.
And yes, black tar heroin is heroin, it's definetly not opium, just a poorly refined version of heroin, aside from black tar there's H3 that you get from the Golden Crescent (Afghanistan Pakistan etc.),which is exported to Europe, Russia and the Middle-East, and H4 that is produced in the Golden Triangle - although also, and perhaps moreso now, in Colombia and SA. And finally there's actual heroin, 99%+ diacetylmorphine, the kind they use (in very contolled cases) on the NHS in the UK and a few other European countries under the brand name 'diamorphine'.
  #23  
Old 21-02-2011, 03:09
m.swinehart81 m.swinehart81 is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

My good friend lives in a state where all he can get is tar. Some of it is brown powder but it is still tar. Black tar is definitely heroin as many here have already told you. You proved this point yourself in fact with one of your posts. If black tar heroin were just the same thing as opium ppl all over the western, and midwestern united states would be falling over dead daily from injecting the crap.
It is definitely worse to shoot black tar than it is true heroin #4 (true heroin, powdered) but it is still heroin....
I think this has sufficiently been explained by several ppl in this thread
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Old 21-02-2011, 20:18
mickey_bee Gold member mickey_bee is offline
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Re: difference between tar and powder

Aye,

As m.swinehart pointed out - heroin in popular culture is a very free-form term.

It does not simply mean pure pharmaceutical grade diacetylmorphine. Depending on your location around the globe, heroin can mean many different things, and, also, go under very different names on the street.

Heroin includes black tar/Mexican heroin, (heroin acetylate I think...), H4, which, if it wasn't cut by drug dealers would be the closest you could get on the street, to diacetylmorphine HCL. And finally, H3, the type produced in the Golden Crescent, (Afghanistan, Pakistan) for export, (and increasing internal use), to Europe, neighbouring Middle-Eastern countries, and Russia.

Opium is in noway heroin - it's simply the base product from which heroin is produced. Opium is as much heroin as it is Codeine - it's just the base product from which the end result is refined.
  #25  
Old 24-02-2011, 13:34
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Re: difference between tar and powder

here in utah, my snake has had both the tar and the powder. when asked, he said that he couldn't tell much difference. He fixed both the same, sometimes the tar is better and othertimes the powder rules.

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