vicodin or lortab in the UK.

[bloodred1889]

just a few questions.
next time swim goes to the docters she is gonna ask her docter for vicodin.
hydrocodone(vicodin) in the uk is called: dihydrocodeinone.
SWIM asked for this and her docter said NO!
swim thinks now she might have thought swim was asking for pure dihydrocodeinone.
so swims question is what is the uk equivelent to vicodin/lortab.
because vicoden is hydrocodone and paracetamol mixed together.
so does anyone know the trade name for dihydrocodeinone in the uk that is mixed with paracetamol.
coz when swim asked for vicoden they were like.. whats that?

this would just help alot.
just in case.
swim is from the UK

paracetamol = acetaminophen

[bloodred1889]

p.s
swim just read erowid.
it says hydrocodone is for mild to moderate pain
and dihydrocodeine is for moderate to severe pain.

swims taking dihydrocodeine
swims cofused which one is stronger?

swims proberly just confusing everyone, swims confused.

[cz-one]

2 completely different opiates,we dont have vicodins or an equivalent in this country,we have hydromorphone but you wont get that unless dying of cancer basically,and dihydrocodeine and codeine get dished out basically as a first line treatment for pain,and wont do shit unless you dont have a tolerance.

[Fantasian]

we do have vicodins equivalent and uit's available in all pharmacys it's called paramol!

Paramol is a mixture of dihydrocodeine and paracetamol (acetaminophen)
It's avalable without prescription at most phamacies.

Makes sure if SWIY plans to abuse this he/she needs to do a CWE to remove to acetaminophen from it.

In the uk the order in opiate pain killers tends to go

Codeine
Tramadol
pethadine
Morphine

With a couple of NSAID's placed here and there to help with it.

SWIF has only seen dihydrocodeine really used in hospital or post surgery as oppose to general pain management.

[Abrad]

we do have vicodins equivalent and uit's available in all pharmacys it's called paramol!

Vicodin contains hydrocodone, not dihydrocodeine, hydrocodone being far more potent.

[bloodred1889]

yeah swim take paramol now. but at higher strenth, paramol is 7mg of dihydrocodeine and swim take the percription of this at 10mg.
paramol isnt like vicodin atall. and its no where near as as strong.

swim wants hydrocodone.. which in the uk is called dihydrocodeinone <notice the diffrent spelling on the end.
so swim knows we do have an equifelent to vicodin. swim just needs to know how to get it.
swim dosnt intend to abuse it as swim has chronic back pain.

if ppl are confused just look up hydrocodone on wiki next to this it says or dihydrocodeinone.

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by Abrad

Vicodin contains hydrocodone, not dihydrocodeine, hydrocodone being far more potent.

I understand but from my understanding it's the UK equivalent all the same in the sense of being the strongest OTC painkiller anyways. Hydrocodone isnt available at all in the UK. It's not even in the BNF and isnt licenced to be used at all.

The only opiate analgesics we have in the Uk are as follows:
Tramadol Hydrochloride
Pentazocine
Pethadine Hydrochloride
Papaveretum
Oxycodone Hydrochloride
Methadone Hydrochloride
Meptazinol
Hydromorphone Hydrochloride
Fentanyl
Dipipanone Hydrochloride
Dihydrocodeine Tartrate
Diamorphine Hydrochloride
Codeine Phosphate
Buprenorphine
Various Morphine Salts

As you can see neither Hydrocodone nor dihydrocodeinone are present and are not licenced for medical use in the UK.

[bloodred1889]

ok but swim asked for dihydrocodeinone from her docter and he said no, he seemed to know what swim was talking about, yet before when swim asked for vicodin or hydrocodone he had no idea what swim was on about.
this makes swim think we can actually get dihydrocodeinone.

because on wiki it states:
Hydrocodone or dihydrocodeinone (marketed as Vicodin, Anexsia, Dicodid, Hycodan (or generically Hydromet), Hycomine, Lorcet, Lortab, Norco, Novahistex, Hydroco, Tussionex, Vicoprofen, Xodol)...
then it says
In the UK it is listed as a Class A drug under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.

take a look.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocodone

thanks for help so far though much apreciated, just seems abit of a riddle at mo

[Fantasian]

SWIF a med student himself, if a patient asked for dihydrocodeineone he would assume they missread dihydrocodeine.

Did he give a reason to why he wouldnt give it to you?
Wiki although useful isnt the perfect source of info

[bloodred1889]

he said he wouldnt give it to swim because swim would like it too much, and its very addictive.
sounds like vicodin to swim, as vicodin causes euphoria.
and he keeps saying to swim to try codeine ect first.. its gonna take swim a long time to work herway upto vicodin at this rate.. its just nothing else works.. stupid uk doctors...

[Fantasian]

SWIF is very surprised if 'nothing else' works but i understand your point about codeine not having analgesic properties potent enough for your problem. Come back in a week or two and while this may put you under pain it will show your doctor you've tried and need a stronger alternative. I imagine tramadol will be next which is quite an effective painkiller. explain how each time you take the painkiller that it's not giving you enough relief.

[Pondlife]

The WHO "Analgesic Ladder" says:

The World Health Organization (WHO) has produced an analgesic ladder to be used as a guide for prescribing analgesics. If a patient does not experience pain relief on one step of the analgesic ladder, they should progress to the next step.

Oral analgesic drugs are usually the first line treatment for treating pain. The choice of analgesic should be based on the severity of the pain rather than the stage of the patient's disease. Analgesics should be taken regularly and the dose gradually increased, as necessary.

Step One
The first step of the analgesic ladder is to use a non-opioid analgesic, for example paracetamol. Adjuvant drugs to enhance analgesic efficacy, treat concurrent symptoms that exacerbate pain, and provide independent analgesic activity for specific types of pain may be used at any step (eg NSAIDS).

Step Two
If the pain is persisting or worsening despite step one then a mild opioid such as codeine should be added (not substituted). Examples are combination preparations including co-proxamol and co-codamol.

Step Three
When higher doses of opioid are necessary, the third step is used. At this step an opioid for moderate to severe pain is used, eg morphine. The dose of the stronger opioid can then be titrated upwards, according to the patient's pain as there is no ceiling dose for morphine.

This is what the doctor should be doing, and it may help you to understand the direction he/she is taking or to know when to try another doc.

A google for "analgesic ladder" will turn up some additional information.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Why does swiy want vicodin so badly?From swiy's quote it seems that swiy is a fan of the show House.Well swim can tell you no real doctor or anyone that cares about their body would abuse vicodin or anything containing acetaminophen.Swim is not going to suggest using any opiate for recreation but if swiy must atleast get one that is free of acetaminophen!Swim is certain with a quote like that swiy does want them for recreational purposes atleast in part.Their are opiates that are acetaminophen free that still have much better analgesic properties than codeine.Acetaminophen is horrid stuff!Anything that has the potential to cause something as awful as acute liver failure is not good.Swim almost wishes they would find some better alternative and stop selling it.Too many people in this world that won't read anything about the medications they are taking and too many that will eat tylenol like candy because they think"Over the counter means safe."

[brown_chunx]

I've never heard of dihydrocodeinone. I assume you're mixing hydrocodone and dihydrocodeine up, as they sound similar. dihydrocodeine is generally Darvocet/Darvan in the states

[x cynic x]

"But Doc, I jus wanna get fucked up, I don't think you understand. Whats the strongest pain med ya can get for me? Wiki said its gotta be somethin like 'di..hydro..codeine...none'...uh..is that it?"

Maybe Swiy can travel to a different country and ask for Vicodin, because obviously your doctor isn't the one to comply.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Originally Posted by x cynic x

"But Doc, I jus wanna get fucked up, I don't think you understand. Whats the strongest pain med ya can get for me? Wiki said its gotta be somethin like 'di..hydro..codeine...none'...uh..is that it?"

Maybe Swiy can travel to a different country and ask for Vicodin, because obviously your doctor isn't the one to comply.

That much trouble for vicodin?LOL!That is one drug that would hardly be worth that much work.

[bloodred1889]

ok, swim is not trying to get vicodin because she wants to get high, swim actually has a back problem, a chronic severe back problem that the painkillers she is on now, dont work.
the quote swim have has nothing to do with what swim actually needs.
swim read about opiods on wiki other then dihydrocodeine and came up with hydrocodone as next in line, or tramadol, swim has heard tramadol isnt as effective as vocodin on numerous occations.
plus it states hydrocodone is for moderate to severe pain. so this seemed like a good enough next step.
swim is persistent to get it as it seems like the licly next step but doctors only reason fo not giving it is addiction.

and swim is in constent pain, of course she is gonna seem like she is determined to get a painkiller that works.

and again quotes on forums dont always mean what the person is really like.

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by bloodred1889

ok, swim is not trying to get vicodin because she wants to get high, swim actually has a back problem, a chronic severe back problem that the painkillers she is on now, dont work.

If SWIY has an actual real problem thatis causing her acute, chronic pain then explore it with the doctor and SWIY will get the pain killers she needs. Uk doctors act differantly to american doctors in that one of the PRIMARY goals is to ensure the patient (or service user) is pain free. Ask to see a pain specialist and from that you should be able to find a more effective long term pain killer.

If you dont mind me asking, what is the problem that SWIY has? Im surprised that NSAIDS are not more effective especially if the problem is muscloskeletal and if the problem is neurological then something like gabapentin or pregabelin might be more effective...

[bloodred1889]

SWIM hase chronic back pain, SWIM was kicked in the ribs 6 years ago by yobs when SWIM was 14.. they beat me up quite badly, so in the 6 yrs sofar SWIM hase been on many painkillers, nothing stronger then dihydrocodeine.
SWIM hase gone to a choropody sessions, rumotology, bowen, and many more check ups.
SWIM freaquently tell the doctor that my pain is 8-10 on the 1 to 10 scale of pain and SWIM dosnt sleep well, SWIM even cant have sex much.
SWIM hase done exersises i have been told to do, but my doctor now still refuses to go any higher then what im on now.
she says there are diffrent ways to tackle the pain.
in a month im going for an mri scan and she said i might be able to get an epidural, but SWIM thinks thats extreme and contradicting.. surly painkillers like vicodin would be better, cheeper and easier.
SWIM was on dictoflex but that gave me the runs, depression, anger so i was taken off it, thats an antiimflamatory.
ive been told that its most likely because of imflamation but im not so sure anymore.

SWIM just wants to have pain relief that works, this has been going on for 6 years now and its a constent battle between the doctors, and being comfortable.

you all say the goul of the doctor is to give pain relief that works, but my doctor dosnt seem to be doing this.

i just dont see any way foward apart from going private.. but im a student with no money

[bloodred1889]

ok, about an hour ago, swims legs gave way, went numb, tingely, and weak.
swim has had weak legs for about 2 months now that get all tingelly sensations.

anyone know what this could be. swims doctor said its most likely linked to swims back.

[Fantasian]

it could be related to the back problems SWIYou've been having but its very important to get something like that checked out at the hospital. The hospital doctors might be more inclined to help you get prescribed something more suiting too.

IF your doctor is so unsypathetic then as mentioend above it might be worth trying a new GP. From SWIF's limited experience he'd say for something like you described NSAIDS are the way to go, diclofenac being a key choice. Im not sure if dictoflex is diclofenac as it's a brand name that we dont have in the UK however it does sound quite similar. NSAIDS have a variety of side effects but the majority are better than that of opiates in SWIF's humble oppinion.

[Lisa J]

SWIM has suffered from severe pain for many years and it's up to SWIY to scream for proper pain relief, SWIM told her GP she'd tried some buprenorphine from a friend and it worked so he then prescribed it instead of dihydrocodeine. SWIM cant use NSAIDS as she's allergic but tests suggest her problems are neurological now anyway so she wouldn't have benefited from them. If your GP wont listen then change, failing that a few out of hours call outs or hospital visits will do the trick, people in real pain kick up a fuss and thats what SWIY must do. SWIM progressed from buprenorphine to pethidine and then to fentanyl, she also uses gabapentin and the maximum dose of codeine/paracetamol, this HELPED with SWIM'S pain, for other reasons she started using heroin 3 months ago and now SWIM is pain free.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim would still suggest trying to get another painkiller than vicodin or any that contains acetaminophen or any other nsaid.If swiy has chronic pain and is going to be on a medication for a long duration it would still be much better for swiy's health to have something with no acetaminophen.Swim wishes more people,more doctors would take the dangers of this stuff into account.There is not many things that sound more frightening or painful than acute liver failure.

[jon]

just for the record, Hydrocodone or dihydrocodeinone is available in the uk, but only for terminal care / via pain team. It is not mixed with APAP or paracetamol and used as a 'minor' opiate painkiller as in the states - vicodin.

[bloodred1889]

thanks for your help ppl.
at the moment doctor isnt budging, im just gonna have to see what the doctors at the hospital say.