Dopamine questions...

[chico]

Thanks nanobrain. So it looks like serotonin does, in fact, have some influence on the eyes according to the diagram. However, I guess I'm still confused as to why some drugs that induce serotonin releaseaffect the eyes (lighting things up) and others do not while every drug that induces dopamine being released does light things up, therefore influencing the eyes.


You're much more educated in this area than I am nanobrain so any and all insight is greatly appreciated! Thanks!


Also, do you mind naming a few of these serotonin-inducing drugs that do offer some visuals?

[BigRed]

probably because most dopamine releasing drugs are mainly stimulants, and with those thinking is clearer and pictures are more vivid.

[chico]

(broken link)


Serotonin as a neurotransmitter in the retina: One of my main research aims in the 1980s was to prove that serotonin has a functional role in the retina. This was partly because it was stated in the literature that serotonin does not have such a role in the retina and partly because I had a general interest in serotonin as a mediator. Through a series of experiments which involved use of immunocytochemistry, pharmacology, biochemistry, physiology and most recently molecular biology it was demonstrated that serotonin acts as a transmitter / mediator in retinas from both mammalian and non-mammalian species. Our most recent result is to show by in situ hybridisation studies that 5-HT7-type receptors are associated with the ganglion cells and that these receptors are affected by ischaemia.

[nerdgrl]

To answer the initial question about the coke 'crash' as people have been labeling it here...it's more like you don't feel anything at all. Basically your brain has just burnt through quite a bit of dopamine and adrenaline and you are rather desensitized to anything going on interesting or not. life can have a similar permanent effect when one is taking wellbutrin a anti-depressant that works mostly with dopamine.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by nerdgrl

To answer the initial question about the coke 'crash' as people have been labeling it here...it's more like you don't feel anything* at all.

Yep, SWIM says it's like you just want to turn off the brain completely and not think about or do anything whatsoever (talking about the initial comedown after a long roll, not days later). A nicotine addict can even lose interest in smoking during this phase, nothing whatsoever is interesting. Just turn on the Weatherscan channel for some utterly bland background music and stable TV picture in a dark room, shut eyes and drift off to sleep ASAP.

Basically your brain has just burnt through quite a bit of dopamine and adrenaline and you are rather desensitized to anything going on interesting or not.* life can have a similar permanent effect when one is taking wellbutrin a anti-depressant that works mostly with dopamine.*

Au contraire, Wellbutrin *helps* with the above-mentioned problem. That's why SWIM recommends it above all others for people quitting cola... it boosts dopamine and norepinephrine, mainly. Addt'l supplementation with 5-HTP for the serotonin component never hurts.Edited by: Nicaine

[Diphenhydramine]

Anyone come to a conclusion on the whole l-dopa question? Some of
the websites practically hailed it as a miracle drug, and as it's an
herbal supplement, it's not regulated by the FDA. This means
anything that they have written could be a lie, and it also means that
if you were to buy a bottle, each capsule would probably have an
unregulated concentration in it. So, I'm doubtful.

[kailey_elise]

Originally Posted by Diphenhydramine

Anyone come to a conclusion on the whole l-dopa question? Some of
the websites practically hailed it as a miracle drug, and as it's an
herbal supplement, it's not regulated by the FDA. This means
anything that they have written could be a lie, and it also means that
if you were to buy a bottle, each capsule would probably have an
unregulated concentration in it. So, I'm doubtful.

I know this is an old post, but I'm asking the same question...HAS anyone come to a conclusion on the whole L-dopa question? *grin*

~K.Elise

[dondante]

L-dopa is useful for Parkinson's patients, but probably isn't worth the risks for healthy individuals. There are a lot of adverse effects. Dopamine is just one of those neurotransmitters that makes you pay for the high. L-dopa is not going to be any magical drug as some claim.

As far as visual effects of dopaminergic vs. serotonergic drugs ... it gets a lot more complex than the retina. Actually dilation of the eye and peripheral visual pathways have practically nothing to do with the percieved increase in brightness and sharpness of objects that I believe you're thinking of.

For serotonin, the claustrum is a likely candidate for amplification of visual stimuli ... it's an important relay center.

From an excellent Rhodium article: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodiu...stortions.html

One area that may contain similar serotonergic systems is the claustrum, a nucleus that is buried in white matter between the putamen of the basal ganglia and the insula of the frontal neocortex. ... convergent evidence shows that there is a high concentration of 5-HT-2 receptors, and of hallucinogen binding (both indoleamines and phenethylamines) in the claustrum. Therefore, based on its anatomical and neurochemical properties, it seems likely that the claustrum is affected by psychedelics through mechanisms similar to that found in the piriform and prefrontal cortices.

The claustrum has widespread connections, usually reciprocal, with almost all areas of the cerebral cortex, including striate and extrastriate visual areas, auditory, somatosensory and motor areas, frontal, parietal, and temporal association cortex, and cingulate cortex. The claustral zones corresponding to most of these areas tend to preserve their topographic organization, especially those parts of the claustum that are connected to areas with well-defined topographies.

... Therefore, I propose that the integrity of the visual cortico-claustral loop may be necessary for precise temporal integration of edge information from end-inhibited and line-detector cell populations, and that the nature of this temporal coding may be modulated based on the expected motion of objects, eye movements, and selective attention. When this system is compromised, either because of experimental manipulations or drug interactions, information about object boundaries will be processed abnormally, resulting in perceptions that are degraded or altered in some way. Furthermore, I hypothesize that LSD and other hallucinogens excite inhibitory interneurons in both the claustrum and in layer 4 of V1, similar to their effects in other cortical regions. Recent theories and empirical evidence suggest that inhibition may play a critical role in coordinating the temporal patterns of neuronal responses to stimuli (Singer 1996). Therefore, the dysfunction of inhibition in these areas caused by psychedelics may, at least in part, mediate the visual distortions they produce. The persistence of these distortions in HPPD suggests that, in some users, hallucinogens may cause long-term neurochemical changes, such as an increase in the sensitivity or number of 5-HT-2 receptors, which result in similar effects.

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent link

[Nicaine]

Somebody would probably have to pick up some Mucuna Pruriens & try it out. I haven't and probably won't this month (issue with funds)... maybe next month.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Jingleballicks

I know that dopamine is flooded into your system when you do snow, my question is.. after you come down off the intial euphoria.. what happens? Because it seems I kinda feel down after the intial high, not depressed or anything, but kinda like... I don't really wanna do anything, whats up? Does the dopamine go away? Seems odd

Click Me.

[kailey_elise]

I suppose the question TIK are asking is, "would taking l-dopa give you anything remotely similar to a cocaine/amphetamine high", or perhaps, "if one does not have Parkinson's, & took a Parkinson's patient's levodopa/carbidopa tablet, would they feel an affect that could be called a *high*". Particularly since seeing commercials about Mirapex (another medication being used on PS patients) being used for Restless Legs Syndrome and that it may trigger...all these things that sound like people high on stimulants.

Also, discussions with PS patients & their doctors about how symptoms seem to be reduced when people recreationally use cocaine or such...

*shrug* Probably not articulating all the different thoughts, questions and theories surrounding me regularly very well, but maybe *someone* will understand what I'm trying to say! *LOL*

~Kailey_Elise

[razorwiredildo]

my friend's grandfather, who is a doctor, said that pure dopamine, or something of the like, could possibly produce pleasurable effects. But if someone were to continually use it, they could stop producing their own dopamine.
kind of like when the testacles of steroid users produce less testosterone and shrink.

[MacBeth]

I think your friend's grandfather, the doctor, is bordering on heresy! His statement is based on a hypothesis known as the Dopamine Depletion Theory. This theory runs completely counter to both nature and logic, but then too, modern medicine blames such mental illnesses as schizophrenia and manic-depression on excess dopamine. Unfortunately, we live in a time which I call, "The Rise of Paranoia and the Repression, Persecution, and Prosecution of Dopamine." We blame everything evil on dopamine! I liken it to something akin to the Middle Ages or Mid-Evil Period in Europe. It's time for a new Marco Polo to bring us a Renaissance!