Dopamine questions...

[Jingleballicks]

I know that dopamine is flooded into your system when you do snow, my question is.. after you come down off the intial euphoria.. what happens? Because it seems I kinda feel down after the intial high, not depressed or anything, but kinda like... I don't really wanna do anything, whats up? Does the dopamine go away? Seems odd

[ganja420]

Hey, I dont know the anwsers to those questions but Ive got a question myself... What is dopamine? Im not into coke so I dont know that much about it.

[white_lighter]

dopamine is that lil chem in your brain that makes you happy

[icemaster]

It's the crash, pretty much all stimulants (coke, E, meth) have this part and yeah it sucks, but its part of drug.

[ganja420]

So white_lighter says its the thing that makes you happy, icemaster sais its the crash and it pretty much sucks.. which one is it? If it makes you happy then it shouldnt suck......... right?

[Micklemouse]

In principle it's both. Dopamine is a
neurotransmitter, as are serotonin and adrenaline(in
fact dopamine is responsible for the production of
adrenaline). Drugs such as cocaine, speed, nicotine,
mdma to an extent, increase the amount of dopamine
released by the brain, whilst at the same time blocking
the brain from reabsorbing it for a time, hence the
high. The crash comes when the block wears off and the
neurotransmitter is rapidly reabsorbed into the brain.
With cocaine and nicotine the amounts of dopamine
released are high, but the blocking action is weak,
explaining why they are so psychologically addicting.
The brain doesn't want the crash, so sends out signals
to delay it - 'Snort another line', 'Smoke another
fag', 'One more rock...', whatever.

Dopamine is involved in the sensations and anticipation
of pleasure, reinforcing the patterns and desires that
keep us eating, having sex and using drugs. It is also
released under stressful and dangerous situations
(remember the adrenaline link - dopamine is needed to
produce adrenaline which is essential to the fight or
flight reflex). It also has a role in controlling our
movements, especially involuntary muscle actions, and
smoothness of movement - depletion and death of
dopamine neurons leads to Parkinson's disease and
similar symptoms (ever wondered why speed and coke
fiends get so twitchy?). It also plays a part in
cognitive function - memory, attention, problem solving
- as well as being linked to psychosis, although the
other neurotransmitters seem to play a part as well
(alter the levels of one and you alter the levels af
the others).

By no means the full picture, but hope it clears things
up a little...

[ganja420]

Ahh, I understand now. Thanks a lot.


peace, dan

[Bodhisattva500]

What if someone were to obtain a small amount of pure dopamine Hcl, like 5 ml or something, could this be used as drug, what would happen if ingested?

[rit_guy]

It wouldn't reach your brain, just like serotonin hcl wouldn't. It would affect the receptors in your body though (don't know where they are located), when you ingest serotonin your muscles get really tense for instance.
Of course, you could (in theory) crack a big needle through your skull and hope that you hit the right part of your brain, and inject it.
Yes, a high for 1 second

[chico]

SWIM is a pharmacist and he tells me that while serotonin is responsible for the euphoria/happy/positive effects, dopamine is responsible for the visuals/lights while on Ecstasy. The best ecstasy caps I've ever had are the ones that give great visuals. So I'm under the assumption that these ecstasy pills are dumping more dopamine neurotransmitters and causing themto bindwith my receptors.


Is he right on with his rationale?

[nanobrain]

^your pharmacisit friend is, um, speaking in grossly generalised terms, and i dont think he is actually correct. non-dopaminergic psychedelics can be incredibly visual.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

The crash comes when the block wears off and the neurotransmitter is rapidly reabsorbed into the brain. With cocaine and nicotine the amounts of dopamine released are high, but the blocking action is weak, explaining why they are so psychologically addicting.

It's even more complicated with nicotine -- the brain has "nicotinic" receptors (actually meant for another chemical called acetylcholine). See these links:

One

Two

Three

Nicotine's a complex drug, affects a number of brain chemicals... one reason among many why IMHO it's the most addictive drug known to man.Edited by: Nicaine

[Zandorf]

i'm oretty sure L-dopa is dopamine that you can orally ingest. i
remember seeing a movie with robin williams and robert deniro, think it
was called awakenings where they administered it to people who
had post-encyphalitic catatonia or something like that, they
were basically paralyzed and the drug woke them up, it was
based on a true story.





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[JewishNazi]

You could try to ingest a large amount of a dopamine precurser in hopes
to get high. Has anyone ever tried methamphetamine with methylphenidate
(ritalin)? Meth promotes the release of dopamine and ritalin stops its
reabsorbtion. In theory, could be quite nice

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Zandorf

i'm oretty sure L-dopa is dopamine that you can orally ingest.

Oh, what the hell -- Enjoy.

If anyone tries the Mucuna Pruriens, please report your experiences.Edited by: Nicaine

[chico]

Increasing dopamine levels sounds great but doesn't the body/brain still need something to trigger the release of more dopamine from the vesicles, into the synapse, in order to bind with receptors (for yielding the effect that we're all looking for; euphoria)?


I would think that these "Mucuna Pruriens" would be something great to take before dropping E or meth. However, without rolling, your vesicles will just be bloated with x'tra dopamine with no means to release more than the body needs.


Can someone help to clarify this?Edited by: chico

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by chico

I would think that these "Mucuna Pruriens" would be something great to take before dropping E or meth. However, without rolling, your vesicles will just be bloated with x'tra dopamine with no means to release more than the body needs.


Can someone help to clarify this?

Put it this way, at least one link suggests that L-Dopa can produce euphoria, and Mucuna Pruriens apparently contains L-Dopa. Good enough for me, I'm buyin' me a bottle & trying it.

I know 5-HTP produces many of the effects of boosted serotonin (drowsiness, agitation, anti-depression, etc), I don't see why L-Dopa couldn't do the same for dopamine. I do tend to doubt the effects would be strong enough to solidly qualify as a "high" ... we'll see, tho.Edited by: Nicaine

[chico]

Originally Posted by nanobrain

^your pharmacisit friend is, um, speaking in grossly generalised terms, and i dont think he is actually correct. non-dopaminergic psychedelics can be incredibly visual.

From what I understand, dopamineinduces (biologically)the iris in the eyes while serotonin does notinfluence any iris/eye whatsoever. This would explain how/when dopamine-induced drugs normally always offer nice visuals (things light up/illuminate). Thus, how could serotonin-induced drugs, and thereceptors they triggeroffer visual effects without biologically affecting the eyes in any way?(have you ever heard of someone on Prozac raving about how beautiful things are looking?)


I'm not disputing your claim Nanobrain but from my knowledge it doesn't make sense. Can you tell me what I might be missing here?Edited by: chico

[nanobrain]

^do believe your understandin' may need a helpin, pardner, here's a shamelessly ripped diagram which may be of help:


Figure 1.1. Schematic representation of the pathway from the eye to the pineal gland. SCN- suprachiasmatic nucleus; PVN – paraventricular nucleus; UTC – upper thoracic spinal cord; SCG – superior cervical ganglion; A-R – alpha adrenergic receptor; B-R – beta adrenergic receptor; CREB – cAMP response element binding protein; V – Ventricles of the Brain; C – Capillaries. The arrow behind cAMP indicates an increase in its concentration following stimulation of A-R or B-R by norepinephrine.Edited by: nanobrain

Reputation Comments on this post:

Interesting, informative diagram. Thanks for sharing.

[chico]

Thanks nanobrain. So it looks like serotonin does, in fact, have some influence on the eyes according to the diagram. However, I guess I'm still confused as to why some drugs that induce serotonin releaseaffect the eyes (lighting things up) and others do not while every drug that induces dopamine being released does light things up, therefore influencing the eyes.


You're much more educated in this area than I am nanobrain so any and all insight is greatly appreciated! Thanks!


Also, do you mind naming a few of these serotonin-inducing drugs that do offer some visuals?

[BigRed]

probably because most dopamine releasing drugs are mainly stimulants, and with those thinking is clearer and pictures are more vivid.

[chico]

(broken link)


Serotonin as a neurotransmitter in the retina: One of my main research aims in the 1980s was to prove that serotonin has a functional role in the retina. This was partly because it was stated in the literature that serotonin does not have such a role in the retina and partly because I had a general interest in serotonin as a mediator. Through a series of experiments which involved use of immunocytochemistry, pharmacology, biochemistry, physiology and most recently molecular biology it was demonstrated that serotonin acts as a transmitter / mediator in retinas from both mammalian and non-mammalian species. Our most recent result is to show by in situ hybridisation studies that 5-HT7-type receptors are associated with the ganglion cells and that these receptors are affected by ischaemia.

[nerdgrl]

To answer the initial question about the coke 'crash' as people have been labeling it here...it's more like you don't feel anything at all. Basically your brain has just burnt through quite a bit of dopamine and adrenaline and you are rather desensitized to anything going on interesting or not. life can have a similar permanent effect when one is taking wellbutrin a anti-depressant that works mostly with dopamine.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by nerdgrl

To answer the initial question about the coke 'crash' as people have been labeling it here...it's more like you don't feel anything* at all.

Yep, SWIM says it's like you just want to turn off the brain completely and not think about or do anything whatsoever (talking about the initial comedown after a long roll, not days later). A nicotine addict can even lose interest in smoking during this phase, nothing whatsoever is interesting. Just turn on the Weatherscan channel for some utterly bland background music and stable TV picture in a dark room, shut eyes and drift off to sleep ASAP.

Basically your brain has just burnt through quite a bit of dopamine and adrenaline and you are rather desensitized to anything going on interesting or not.* life can have a similar permanent effect when one is taking wellbutrin a anti-depressant that works mostly with dopamine.*

Au contraire, Wellbutrin *helps* with the above-mentioned problem. That's why SWIM recommends it above all others for people quitting cola... it boosts dopamine and norepinephrine, mainly. Addt'l supplementation with 5-HTP for the serotonin component never hurts.Edited by: Nicaine

[Diphenhydramine]

Anyone come to a conclusion on the whole l-dopa question? Some of
the websites practically hailed it as a miracle drug, and as it's an
herbal supplement, it's not regulated by the FDA. This means
anything that they have written could be a lie, and it also means that
if you were to buy a bottle, each capsule would probably have an
unregulated concentration in it. So, I'm doubtful.