New to the world of Research Chemicals, care to help?

[Heretic.Ape.]

So my psychonaut labmonkey is interested in expanding his palate a bit and would like to venture into the realm of RC's. However the RC scene quite a different scene than most so monkey was just wondering if some experienced RC folks would mind imparting some of their nuggets of wisdom gained from their experiences that might make becoming familiar with this new territory a little easier.
One main thing monkey has noticed is that he's finally going to have to knuckle down and learn some proper chemistry terminology and such. Any recommendations as far as good resources for this would be appreciated, perhaps pointing to some good instructive websites or threads here (most general information is buried within threads dealing with specific issues and I tend to stumble upon them out of luck more than anything thus far).
Monkey's main interests thus far have been psilocybin and LSD. Mainly he enjoys substances that have the ability to take him into those beautiful realms where he can sit and talk to day-glo deities amid fractaling iridescent squids, contemplate and find revelations of the mysteries of mind and metaphysics. You know, that sort of thing. From what he's been reading so far it sounds as though 4-ace-dmt and similar compounds are up his alley. Recommendations of highly psychedelic compounds would also be very appreciated.
He plans on beginning his experiments perhaps next year and in the mean time hopes to learn as much as possible.
On behalf of monkey I thank anyone in advance for your time and help in helping us make the journey to this new-to-us area of interest.
h.a.

[NeonCortex]

If it's next year, you have time to learn some useful stuff. First, learn basic organochemical nomenclature ála IUPAC and accepted synonyms. Plow through PIHKAL and TIHKAL if you haven't yet, since you're interested in psychedelics. To be able to aquire interesting compounds you can't just go to a kwik-e-mart any longer. So you will have to work to find sources and to be able to buy from them to fuel your experiments.

[chrisn]

Got the gold forum sources now, eh? :P

My dragon is no expert of RCs as he is new to the scene himself, but he's recently tried a few and has been researching them for months. 4-Aco-DMT would be an excellent candidate to start with, that was dragon's first and he absolutely loved it.

It's not a necessity to learn too much about chemistry, but it's a good idea to have a basic understanding of how the different RC's differ from each other. First thing to know: there are two main classes, tryptamines, and phenethylamines. Psilocybin and LSD are both tryptamines (although LSD is far more complex than your average tryptamine), and mescaline is a phenethylamine. By making various substitutions of different molecules at different positions on these molecules, vastly new and different psychedelics can be synthesized.

The first thing my dragon did when researching RC's was to look at PIHKAL and TIHKAL. These books, written by the guy that discovered most RC's, Alexander Shulgin, have information on the synthesis and initial tests of all of the RC's he synthesized. The synthesis goes way over my dragon's head and he usually skips down to dosage, durative, qualitative comments, and extensions and commentary. You can find PIHKAL and TIHKAL at the following links:
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_...l/pihkal.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_...l/tihkal.shtml

The lists of chemicals may appear to be a little overwhelming, so I'll suggest a few for you to start looking at.
PIHKAL: 2C-B, 2C-D, 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-T-2, 2C-T-7, 2C-T-21, DOB, DOC, DOI, DOM
TIHKAL: DIPT, DPT, 4-HO-DIPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-MIPT, Ibogaine, 5-MEO-DMT, AMT

You'll also see some familiar substances on these lists, 4-HO-DMT, DMT, LSD, MDMA, etc

There are many RC's coming out these days that aren't included in Shulgin's lists, such as 4-ACO-DMT, 4-ACO-MIPT, 2C-B-FLY, and more. The next resource my dragon used was experience reports from Erowid, and on this forum as well. The best way to pick the chemicals you want to use is see how others enjoyed them.

A few recommendations: 4-ACO-DMT as I said above, similar to mushrooms (with reason, the compound is deacetylated into psilocin in the body), but my dragon thinks it does have it's own character. 2C-E, a very heavy and intense psychedelic most say, deep mentally, strong visually, somewhat of a body load which some don't like. 2C-I, said to be quite recreational, similar to 2C-B which is scheduled in the US.

Hope that gives you a starting point. You're just at the tip of the iceberg, there's a fascinating world out there!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good informative post
	Good post for noobie
	good!

[MrCat]

Thanks for the reading material, I've been licking the iceberg for a while but previously known little of its origins. Don't you eat that yellow snow.

I've reciently become interested in the realms of 2c-i having read a few reports and looked into things reciently after some interesting experiences with 2c-b a few years back now. One gets the feeling that although these things are purely legal research chemicals that it just isn't the done thing to inquire as to the best methods of acquasition. I have done some vague research with little assured success thus far.

[NeonCortex]

Neither 2C-B or 2C-I are legal in most parts of the western world. Phenethylamines and tryptamines are watched pretty heavily nowadays, and easily attract attention. Therefore the open-to-all kwik-e-marts of the old days are pretty much gone.

[MrCat]

Damn, to be honest I missed those days. Of course one can always get a black leather armchair in a nation where all the cows are brown, with either the dolla or the contacts in the armchair trade.

Someone who isn't me used to have a friend who had a friend in the trade, usual story I guess but those days are long passed too unfortunately. Sad, as they were very much into their armchairs and could consequently tell you every little deatil about and the best way to sit in each one.

I was new to 'the scene' then, if you can so put it, and I guess still am having lost said friends in the mists of drifting times. Some good advice and interesting times were had.

I've just reciently begun to look online again and have found various forums and threads on such matters with all sorts of interesting new devisions or derisions of things and some vague speak of ordering the newest one online, but of course all very vague.

I guess it's back down to jack on the street corner and 'who you know'. I suspected 2cb was not legal but read a few vagueries surrounding 2ci suggesting it may still be an experimental thing.

I started to think of such when I heard about budmail the other day. Call me slow but I really did just hear about it and couldn't believe it until I found the actual site, tho of course it being illegal I wouldn't try it. It seemed such an outragous flaunting of ...well...I wondered if poeople hadn't flaunted it in other ways.

I wonder if people will ever be free to go where they will, but I expect there's different forums for that!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Do not discuss sources (budmail). Read the rules!

[JDreaming]

This is definitely not the ideal time for a person to become interested in research chemicals. They are always available, but at this point for every real supplier there are 20+ scams... and the most solid and reliable sources cannot be found through a google search. And given the recent unexpected shut-downs of multiple Canadian vendors, it is possible the entire country of Canada is having changing legal views on research chemicals right now... wise researchers might find themselves forced to lay off that entire country until the research chemistry community discovers just what the hell is going on over there.

When SWIM made the decision to start involving his lab animals with research chemicals, he too was interested in phenethylamine and tryptamine compounds of a purely psychedelic nature. He excluded all chemicals that:

A) are too rare and exotic to be easily found,
B) have a history of causing human deaths,
C) have a duration of greater than 12 hours (which would be problematic for SWIM and his animals), or
D) have been added to the officially scheduled substances list in America.

What he was left to experiment with was a list that looked somewhat like this:

Phenethylamines: 2C-C, 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-T-2, DOC
Tryptamines: DPT, DiPT, 4-AcO-DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, 4-AcO-DiPT, 4-Ho-DiPT, MiPT, 4-Ho-MiPT

Reputation Comments on this post:

	thanks, nice reply
	clear post appeared helpful to others

[Nagognog2]

There are quite a few others - which may be difficult to find. But that list would keep a monkey busy for quite awhile.

[tayo]

2C-E, 5-meo-amt, BrDFLY, 2-ct-2, 2-ct-7, 4-HO-dipt, MBDB and relatives might be of interest. Then there is always mescaline and the Phenethylamines I Have Known and Loved. So many analogues!

[psilocybonaut]

Recommended (and worthwhile) RCs (in order of how much I like em):
4-ACO-DMT fumarate (aka psilacetin, an AWESOME, heavily psychedelic, and extremely enjoyable chemical)
2C-B hcl (the crown of all the 2Cs)
4-HO-DMT hcl (pure psilocin, its effects are dramatically different from mushrooms even)
DMT freebase
5-MEO-DMT freebase
4-HO-MIPT fumarate
2C-T-7 hcl
2C-E hcl
If you are into chemicals with long long duration, you could check out the DOx series of compounds. I would recommend DOI or DOC, those are the best unscheduled ones (I would go with DOC).

I wouldn't fuck with Bromo-Dragonfly (bromo-benzodifuranyl-isopropylamine) because the dosage is not well established. On erowid even, it says there's two batches and for one batch the dose is 800 - 1300 mcg and for the other it's 200-400 mcg. This is because there are two different isomers of it. I'm pretty sure that the stronger batch was the (R) isomer of bromo-benzodifuranyl-isopropylamine, while the weaker batch was the (L) isomer. The (R) isomer is much more potent.
Plus I have heard that it is quite a boring chemical with too long of a duration anyways. Why not just get some LSD instead?


2C-I hcl (not recommended for hardheads, it's more of a fun and recreational type drug)

[mictihtoya]

I don't recommend 4-AcO-DMT if you're already experienced with mushrooms. It's one of the best psychedelics ever discovered, yeah, but why try an ester of psilocin (basically a familiar substance to you, even if slightly different) when there are so many other varieties of psychedelic experience offered up by the research chemical scene?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Unique, well-put advice... research chemicals are about exploring new things, not just having fun or getting messed up.

[Felonious Skunk]

Probably the best course of action at this point in time is to buy your monkey PIHKAL and TIHKAL and have him read Part II of both books (if he hasn't of course done this already), especially the "Extensions and Commentary" sections.

Then have him track down vendors for every damn chemical listed in those books that he possibly can and have him start collecting these exotic curios and nostalgic artifacts.

Because it won't be long before they will not only be illegal to possess with intent to consume, they will also be illegal to possess as chemical relics of the past...

[rxbandit]

If one were just introduced to the RC scene, it would be wise to page through shulginns works like recommended above. It would also be wise to check out every chemical swiys interested in the research chemical forum via illuminati boys surveys which are a wonderful resource.

There are two major types of pyschedelic research chemicals; Tryptamines and Phenethylamines. Tryptamines have an indole base which makes psilocin and LSD of this category. Phenethylamines are shaped more like dopamine and are more closely related to mescaline and MDMA.

For tryptamines the prefixes are as follows;

4-ho (hydroxy group at the 4 position, going to be alot like shrooms)
4-aco( acetoxy group at the 4 postion, more or less just breaks down into the 4-ho in the body, same effects slightly less potent.)
5-meo( methoxy group at the 5 position, lower dosage then the 4 subsituted chems and usually able to smoke and usually a shorter duration)

The fumarate salts are always a heavier molecule meaning they are less potent then the HCL or HBr salts.

It's important to invest in a precision milligram scale if swiy is interested in RC's. they can be found on reputable online auction sites...


As for reccomendations, in the category of tryptamines;
5-meo-mipt
4-ho-mipt(possibly one of the most interesting ones ever synthesized)
4-aco-mipt(same as above more or less)
4-ho-dipt
5-meo-dipt(scheduled aka foxy)
DPT(wonderful chemical)
4-aco-dmt

As for phenethylamines;

2c-e(has incredible visuals and a comfortable body high, 5 stars)
2c-b(scheduled, highly euphoric, nice visuals but a manageable head)
DOM(scheduled, utterly breathtaking, very creative. swims new favorite)
DOC( todays common LSD imposter, wonderful trip durations a bit long)
Methylone( MDMA light...)
2C-C(high dose, nice visuals, relaxing/sedating)

Also there are at least a few years left before these chemicals are scheduled. the DEA has cracked down on alot of the blatant RC vendors however their is still a strong underground market and swim expects to see these chemicals around for a long time.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	very informative :)
	Descriptive and helpful post, thanks.

[Cirkeln 6]

What's availibal to SWIM at the moment that has found to be rewarding (no special order):

5-MeO-MiPT
N-Ethyl-2C-B
EthCath
Bromo-DragonFLY
mcPP in combination with meOPP
DOI
5-MeO-DALT (short acting but friendly to redose)
hydroxi-Mytegerin (spelling somone?)
2C-B-FLY
Phenezepam (a downer sold as a research chem, much like rohypnol in stronger dosage)
Fliperazine

Not so good according to SWIM:
MDPV (however very good in combination with 5-MeO-MiPT)
BZP
TFMPP
LSA (Caution something else has been sold as this compound, probably Bromo-DragonFLY or DOC)