amphetamine potentiators

[420inchrims]

i have wondered this for a while but never really felt like experimenting. what are some amphetamine potentiators, you can never have enough amps. i know chelate magnesium, or manganese reduces your tolerence to zero but i have never tried them as potentiators.

[fireflywa]

"you can never have enough amps."

Does swiy truly believe that? I'm going to copy/paste some of my previous posts on this forum...

swim would like to comment about daily use of adderall without truly having ADHD. swim convinced his doctor to prescribe a single xr30/day because it helped in the past when he was having similar issues to what's going on in his life right now. swim then went back to the doctor and got his prescription increased to 60mg/day.

swim used to be able to swallow an unaltered xr30 in the morning upon waking up and feel just great for the rest of the day. that quickly changed over the period of 4 weeks since the start of daily use (it had been five years since he's used adderall). swim's daily dose is now at least 200mg, sometimes up to 360mg or more. swim has taken over 100 30's in the past month, and has not felt the high of the drug for two weeks. over the past few days his tolerance increased drastically (after taking somewhere around 1g over 70 hours of being awake) the poor guy has to take 7 to 12 30's (in a variation of under the tongue, snorting, crushing & putting back in capsule/swallowing, swallowing regularly) every day to maintain his sanity.

swim will keep taking more and more of the drug to try and feel the high again, but just ends up feeling sleepy all the time.

swim would very very strongly recommend against daily use of the drug for any reason other than ADD/ADHD. he says the tolerance will build so insanely quickly that nobody under any circumstance should use the drug daily as a generic "mood booster" or "performance enhancer" or to be able to sleep less and still be awake the whole day. he says it would be a matter of DAYS before the dosage would need to be increased.

as with any drug, moderation is key. swim says it could be used at a party or if someone ends up staying up really late for some reason...but he says it shouldn't be used more than once a week, and even that's pushing it.

Swim crushed up 450mg of adderall xr and dosed it all sublingually, then put 600mg of caffeine under his tongue. Didn't get high at all.

On the topic of prescribed dosage....swim is prescribed 60mg of xr a day, one 30 in the morning upon waking up (5am) and one at morning break at work (9am). swim takes 240 to 360mg a day just to keep his body and mind going, even though he sleeps great all night, eats well, and stays hydrated. swim doesn't understand what the problem is but swim is too afraid of going through one day without the adderall that he won't try it.

Swim will still answer the question despite his hatred of amphetamines. A teaspoon of baking soda taken mixed with water 45 minutes or so before the adderall will help. Take a tums or two at the same time. Magnesium reduces tolerance, but not to zero. Piracetam potentiates amphetamines.

Swim hopes swiy changes his attitude about amps, or swiy will find himself spiraling down a road that leads to the devil himself... Swim speaks from experience.

Judging by your other posts, swiy needs some help.

[420inchrims]

well, i guess it is possible to have enough amps. swim is insufflating the pills. is the acetaminophen(paracetamol) systemic or does it only work on orally ingested pills.

[fireflywa]

What about apap? Nothing swim spoke of involves apap...

[420inchrims]

yeah my bad i miss read your post.

[KyleM]

L-tyrosine works very well as a potentiator and as a relief from comedown, but it will skyrocket SWIY's tolerance; moderation really applies here. Keep in mind also that this may lower the amount of amphetamine needed for desired effects; start with a lower dose and work up if needed.

[hh339]

Coffee is nice!

[candy_kid]

l-tyrosine also increases negative peripheral effects such as sweating and skin issues in SWIM's experience -- this seems to be better left to replenishing supplies of neurotransmitters rather than to potentate amphetamine in swim's humble opinion.

tums should also work (like baking soda) to potentate amphetamines as one simply needs something basic, I say this because swim thinks tums are more enjoyable to ingest -- heres a quote from another forum's respected member fastandbulbous as to the mechanism behind this: "It slows clearance of amphetamine by the kidneys because less amphetamine in blood plasma is present as a salt (it's the ionized/salt form that gets max clearancve by the kidneys)"

btw, while magnesium and dxm do reduce tolerance, they dont block it completely and it will come with time.. these also reduce the effects oh so slightly, so keep that in mind while using them to keep tolerance down

[blackwolf]

Originally Posted by candy_kid

tums should also work (like baking soda) to potentate amphetamines as one simply needs something basic, I say this because swim thinks tums are more enjoyable to ingest -- heres a quote from another forum's respected member fastandbulbous as to the mechanism behind this: "It slows clearance of amphetamine by the kidneys because less amphetamine in blood plasma is present as a salt (it's the ionized/salt form that gets max clearancve by the kidneys)"

btw, while magnesium and dxm do reduce tolerance, they dont block it completely and it will come with time.. these also reduce the effects oh so slightly, so keep that in mind while using them to keep tolerance down

As far as tums are conserned swim has noticed a definite prolonged stimulation with the coadministration of tums with adderal and with desoxyn. When this has been done the effects lasted for up to 4 hours longer then normal.

Swim has never had a major tolerance to amphetamines even after 10 years of being rxed, but from what swim has read the dxm and mag looks like it would work on paper.

[howlongisthenight]

On dosing DXM and mangnesium to slow down amp tolerance: When should these be taken?

SWIM has heard that the DxM should be taken a little before taking the amp, whereas magnesium used as daily supplement......is this right?

[candy_kid]

I believe (from what I've read) magnesium is taken prior to amphetamines and has an acting time just like the dxm would have- if someone knows otherwise feel free to correct me swim takes one dose of magnesium with each dose of dex

[izzy31]

tums and antacids help reduce acidity level in your blood and make it last longer since its not being metabolized and broken down at a normal rate.

[Bajeda]

A certain Panda found that piracetam enhanced the intensity and quality of the amphetamine experience for him, especially making it more suitable to productive pursuits rather than endless barrage of distractions he would have experienced with the higher doses he would take while not on piracetam.

The Panda didn't take any larger doses while on piracetam as smaller ones worked so well, so he can't comment as to what is different at those levels (the doses he would usually be taking).

[aaronitotheburrito]

orange juice omg
swim took a adderall with orange juice one day (was his second adderall of the day)
it did slow down the absorbtion process alot but he peeked for like 4 hours.
i guess his body absorbed it slowly so he kept absorbing more and more in his peek...
he didnt like it at the time cause he was at a social event and found himself completely annoying.
but if we was with other tweakers he would of loved it

[sonicmenu]

SWIM takes amino chelate magnesium 900mg every night and helps SWIMS tolerance.
Swim thinks taking Tums 30-60min before makes SWIM feel it more..SWIM also thinks pills crushed to powder and placed under the tongue for 2-3 min is wonderful

[candy_kid]

re:Bajeda's post : for swim (and one of his friends) piracetam most definitely improved the amphetamine high, however it might be noted that the euphoria (dopamine related "high") seems to be almost completely erased and replaced with a much more serotonergic feeling (much less than mdma... but imagine that direction) -- this makes amphetamines much more socially comfortable and relaxing for swim- however, some who are looking for that euphoric OCD high amphetamines naturally give might be disappointed with piracetam's effects

[sonicmenu]

SWIM Just ordered piracetam today...and has heard it helps..SWIM would like to know how much piracetam.to take..SWIM is prescribed 90 MG of adderall a day (3X30mg) Should SWIM take Choline or letchin..as well.

[some_random_guy]

Be careful about taking DXM with amphetamine. I've heard if you take DXM you probably won't sleep, coupled with amphetamine that might mean 2+ days of insomnia judging from how much some people might take.

[razorwiredildo]

some say that good old nicotine canincrease the high and euphoria for a short period of time.
swim has found that cigarettes have this effect for about 10-15 minutes and dip for about 20-30 minutes.
on the other hand, some say that cigarettes are very unattractive while on adderall.

this should work even if one is a regular smoker. although swim has cut back, he was recently a pack a day smoker and this still works for him, so nicotine tolerance doesn't seem to be an issue. at least for swim.

[realitybias]

Modafinil has worked wonders for SWIM. Modafinil seems to suppliment the memory portions of SWIMs brain and keeps SWIM awake, while adderall suppliments focus and willpower.

[Ranke]

Due to piracetams similarity to some GABA-A selective benzodiazepines, (it acts as an anxiolytic and anticonvulsant) such as alprazolam, combined with its well documented GABA-A activity¹, it is very possible that piracetam could significantly reduce the recreational effects of the amphetamines.² A significant reduction in the efficacy of amphetamine in improving learning abilities when combined with piracetam was shown in this study.³

However, low doses of piracetam still may benifical for mental performance when using amphetamines. The is due to the piracetams probable mediation of amphetamine/s glucose uptake inhibition. Although they exert their effects by different mechanisms the effects of piracetam and amphetamine/s is quite similar to the better documented attenuation of the amnesiac effects of various sedatives in the benzodiazepine and barburate classes of drugs.

But what are studies without testing in the real world without laboratory controls? For this swim presents his own experience. At one time swim had a large quantity of both alprazolam and d,l-amphetamine. After a few weeks of heavy use he began to notice that the quantity of alprazolam needed for sleep or recreational use was far higher than it should have been, even considering swims heavy use. He also noted that his amphetamine did not seem to have the kick that it once had. He still felt somewhat stimulated, but he did not receive the blast of amphetamine induced pleasure that he had in the past. Rather, he was focused, attentive, and awake, but not euphoric. Finally swim put the pieces together, due a long period without any obligations his drug use had sky rocketed. As a result he was either taking amphetamine, taking alprazolam, or taking piracetam constantly (in an attempt to reduce the negative effects of both amphetamine and alprazolam). To this day swim still takes a bit of piracetam with his amphetamine in order to compensate the spacey and scatterbrained thoughts that often accompany high doses of amphetamine. For example. calculating the quantity of liquid required to dose out a RC at a known concentration. This is ordinarily a simple task, yet under the influence of amphetamine swim cannot keep his thoughts in order without the aid of a bit of piracetam.

So that was just my 2 cents hope someone gets something from it. Please point out any blatant spelling or grammatical errors, swim does not wish to be viewed as a fool and appreciates constructive criticism.

1:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

2:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ractPlusDrugs2

3:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

Reputation Comments on this post:

very cool- thx for the links, I've been wondering about amp - pir interactions recently :)

[candy_kid]

^^ very interesting stuff, your sources definitely get into some territory I'd been curious about but hadn't found anything on yet, thanks for sharing - I've been researching the same topic and noticed some interesting facts too that I derived some theories from. Seems like as good a place as any to share since you got it started

piracetam increases acetycholine flow-- acetycholine being the neurotransmitter that takes the place of dopamine in the reward centre to stop cravings. This is a good thing when considering say, drug addiction- but it seems to me that this could be less useful or possibly contradictory(?) when learning is being attempted through the increasing of dopamine levels, as the two cancel each other out to an extent-- On the other hand, there is likely much more to learning via dopamine that isn't covered by the reward centre. However, creating habits about of what is learned seems less likely because of this.

Also, cognition and memory are likely in part increased because of piracetam's action on serotonin receptor up regulation; the serotonin system helps along certain things like aspects of memory and learning that dopamine/epinephrine/norepinephrine dont touch on, it also allows more creative thinking (thinking of things that are good for studying via serotonin here)- dexadrine increases dopamine, which has a yin yang like effect on serotonin and thus pushes serotonin levels lower than normal; removing some benefits of serotonin. Increasing serotonin receptors would hypothetically allow this lower level of serotonin to create more normal output on memory and learning and provide more abstract thinking while dex increases memory and learning via other amines that it increases-- seems like a good combo on paper if you just look at this effect --

to back the second thought up, swim always notices a massive decrease in memory of the things that he has gone over on dex the night of, but seems to be able to habitually use what he learned the next day easily when its required of him. However, if swim studies on dex and then takes piracetam while either on or recently off of dex, swim can suddenly recall the things he's learned photographically, apply them abstractly to new topics and simply look at related problems, know how to do them and remember them well enough for tests. Of course the downside is that swim becomes less focused and able to get "into" something at this point also as Ranke also suggested.

[AsteroidChaser]

Hi, new here so go easy onmy shadowing friend, he doesn't know a whole lot.But he is wondering Khat and adderall. would they compete for the same neuro receptors?

[Psych0naut]

Yes, but it would not decrease effects of one of them, and one drug wouldn't knock of the other from SWIY's receptors. Only antagonist do this, common dopamine antagonists are the anti-psychotics, like Risperdal(risperidone) and Haldol(haloperidol). The effects of one of them can over rule the other, and it might put much more strain on SWIY's heart, so start out with a low dose of both, and take it easy. Have fun!

[GForce]

In regards to the orange juice anecdote, I can't understand how orange juice could potentiate amphetamines because SWIM finds the complete opposite. Alkalizing agents (that is something that will make the environment of your stomach more basic) logically would be what to take when using pH to potentiate amphetamines simply because the environment in your stomach is highly acidic (it uses HCl to break down food and anything else). In first pass metabolism the more acidic the stomach is, the more amphetamine molecules will be destroyed before they can be absorbed by your body.

As far as other potentiating agents go, here is a list of drug interactions from my FAQ:

• Acidifying agents - Gastrointestinal acidifying agents (guanethidine, reserpine, glutamic acid HCl, ascorbic acid, fruit juices, etc.) lower absorption of amphetamines.
• Urinary acidifying agents - (ammonium chloride, sodium acid phosphate, etc.) Increase the concentration of the ionized species of the amphetamine molecule, thereby increasing urinary excretion. Both groups of agents lower blood levels and efficacy of amphetamines.
• Adrenergic blocker - Adrenergic blockers are inhibited by amphetamines.
• Alkalinizing agents - Gastrointestinal alkalinizing agents (sodium bicarbonate, etc.) increase absorption of amphetamines. Urinary alkalinizing agents (acetazolamide, some thiazides) increase the concentration of the non-ionized species of the amphetamine molecule, thereby decreasing urinary excretion. Both groups of agents increase blood levels and therefore potentiate the actions of amphetamines.
• Antidepressants, tricyclic - Amphetamines may enhance the activity of tricyclic or sympathomimetic agents; d-amphetamine with desipramine or protriptyline and possibly other tricyclics cause striking and sustained increases in the concentration of d-amphetamine in the brain; cardiovascular effects can be potentiated.
• MAO inhibitors - MAOI antidepressants, as well as a metabolite of furazolidone, slow amphetamine metabolism. This slowing potentiates amphetamines, increasing their effect on the release of norepinephrine and other monoamines from adrenergic nerve endings; this can cause headaches and other signs of hypertensive crisis. A variety of neurological toxic effects and malignant hyperpyrexia can occur, sometimes with fatal results.
• Antihistamines - Amphetamines may counteract the sedative effect of antihistamines.
• Antihypertensives - Amphetamines may antagonize the hypotensive effects of antihypertensives.
• Chlorpromazine - Chlorpromazine blocks dopamine and norepinephrine receptors, thus inhibiting the central stimulant effects of amphetamines, and can be used to treat amphetamine poisoning.
• Ethosuximide - Amphetamines may delay intestinal absorption of ethosuximide.
• Haloperidol - Haloperidol blocks dopamine receptors, thus inhibiting the central stimulant effects of amphetamines.
• Lithium carbonate - The anorectic and stimulatory effects of amphetamines may be inhibited by lithium carbonate.
• Meperidine - Amphetamines potentiate the analgesic effect of meperidine.
• Methenamine therapy - Urinary excretion of amphetamines is increased, and efficacy is reduced, by acidifying agents used in methenamine therapy.
• Norepinephrine - Amphetamines enhance the adrenergic effect of norepinephrine.
• Phenobarbital - Amphetamines may delay intestinal absorption of phenobarbital; co-administration of phenobarbital may produce a synergistic anticonvulsant action.
• Phenytoin - Amphetamines may delay intestinal absorption of phenytoin; co-administration of phenytoin may produce a synergistic anticonvulsant action.
• Propoxyphene - In cases of propoxyphene overdosage, amphetamine CNS stimulation is potentiated and fatal convulsions can occur.
• Veratrum alkaloids - Amphetamines inhibit the hypotensive effect of veratrum alkaloids.