So... how bad is heroin for you physicaly, no more BS.

[vantranist]

Ive heard from many people that heroin is a physicaly prettysafe drug compared to others, however those lancet "studies" ranked it as the worst drug in the world physicaly aswell as creates the greatest dependance.

so witch is true?

[methMADMAN]

Assuming one does not overdose or neglect oneself, heroin is very safe and causes almost no trauma to the body. Factor in the OD potential and the way junkies neglect themselves and it becomes much more dangerous.

[merc11292]

the danger in heroin is u cant trust street heroin, but it really is almost identical to morphine, if someone had say pharmaceutical grade heroin, clean syringes, chipped with it not shot up 5 times a day. Then yes its believed to be quite safe its all a matter of the quality and the users ability to judge there tolerance. i read a very well researched article on the safety of it a while back, and it said the junkie lifestyle is really what makes it dangerous, it even mentioned that a founder of Johns Hopkins was a morphine addict for a very long time and died a natural death with nothing wrong with his organs and what not on the autopsy, and like a said above morphine and heroin are alot alike. Ive heard the only real problems come from the way it effects your brains ability to perceive pain making it more intense, and its effects on the brain are even less than that of high doses of oxycontin.

[methMADMAN]

The actual difference between heroin and morphine is that chemically morphine needs to be metabolized by the liver once before it can pass through the "blood brain barrier". Heroin goes straight through. This is what makes heroin more addictive, as it is much quicker of a high.

[vantranist]

SWIM also heard that once it passed the BBB it turns into morphine or atleast has the same function... same high but the speed makes it much more pleasurable.

[Psych0naut]

Pure heroin does barely to no damage to your body in the long run. But the problem is street heroin is never pure, though this can be purified very easily. The junky lifestyle also isn't a healthy one, but this can be avoided, eat well and take care of your body like everyone else does, and you'll look healthy.

[mictihtoya]

Heroin and morphine are non-toxic chemicals. They don't cause ANY damage to your organs or brain besides your intestines (yes, constipation and irregularity can potentially cause physical damage to your intestines). Morphine is an endogenous opioid as well, it's found naturally in human blood in small amounts.


Street heroin's purity has little to nothing to do with the perceived harmfulness of heroin, either. Heroin's almost always cut with inactives or non-toxic drugs.

[elscorcho717]

Don't forget the risks associated with IV drug use.

[imyourlittlebare]

heroin is morphine with an extra chemical group that allows it to travel much quicker through the bbb. morphine doesnt have to be altered in anyway to get through its just much slower and is broken down much easier in the body. heroin is a bad drug physically. The reason there is such a thing as methadone maintanance is because people who studied it and made this sort of treatment made it because there is good research showing that there is lasting changes in the brain. A single dose of morphine is enough to begin the changes in the brain. These changes include the destruction of the bodys own mu receptors (morphine receptors where your bodys endorphins as well as opiates bind to). The pleasure center of your brain destroys many of its connections so when you kick the habit, its very unlikely that you feel alot of pleasure in anything. Withdrawal is another thing. The fever can be bad enough to cause some sort of damage and anything that hurts that much OBVIOUSLY isnt good for you. Swim is an avid user of opiates and ignores the rick because he started well before his career in neuroscience. however, swim cant lie and tell you that the research is wrong. heroin is not a good drug.

[methMADMAN]

Funny that I studied this whilst training to be a CDC and heard none of this "research".

[imyourlittlebare]

wait 15 minutes and ill manage to get a bunch of links. you obviously turned a blind eye or just didnt look very hard.

[imyourlittlebare]

http://www.brightsurf.com/news/headl...the_Brain.html - you can look up the actual article but working with painkillers myself i know its true. say what you want

http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/10400894

heres this for starters and i can get more

[psyche]

Heroin alters your brain structure? That's new to me, but since studies have failed to find heroin causing mental detoriation or other serious damage that study should be taken as what it is and avoid drawing I-feel-conclusions. Remember LSD and the chromosome damage? Sounds bad. Changes in the brain due to morphine? Can't be anything short of serious. By the way, what was the actual story of the LSD scare-studys? Because I remember reading that they were completely flawed, and then I've read that it's true but misleading, as caffeine causes a lot more chromosomal damage, and it isn't anything abnormal or dangerous.

[merc11292]

Originally Posted by psyche

Heroin alters your brain structure? That's new to me, but since studies have failed to find heroin causing mental detoriation or other serious damage that study should be taken as what it is and avoid drawing I-feel-conclusions. Remember LSD and the chromosome damage? Sounds bad. Changes in the brain due to morphine? Can't be anything short of serious. By the way, what was the actual story of the LSD scare-studys? Because I remember reading that they were completely flawed, and then I've read that it's true but misleading, as caffeine causes a lot more chromosomal damage, and it isn't anything abnormal or dangerous.

i just skimmed through so idk where it said it heroin changes ur brain but, morphine, tobacco, and cocaine can all alter your brain somehow, i think only DNA is changed like meaning you would pass down genes making your kids more susceptible to addiction or its not that significant brain altering but i could be wrong, or misinterpriting this but seeing as morphine and heroin are basically the same then the said brain changes would prolly be the same with heroin, i read this on wikipedia though so it could definatly be BS.

[elscorcho717]

Originally Posted by merc11292

i just skimmed through so idk where it said it heroin changes ur brain but, morphine, tobacco, and cocaine can all alter your brain somehow, i think only DNA is changed like meaning you would pass down genes making your kids more susceptible to addiction or its not that significant brain altering but i could be wrong, or misinterpriting this but seeing as morphine and heroin are basically the same then the said brain changes would prolly be the same with heroin, i read this on wikipedia though so it could definatly be BS.

Doesn't make sense. Drug addiction won't change your DNA and make your kids more susceptible to addiction. Rather, if you're a drug addict you already have the genes that predispose you to be addicted, and you pass those on to your kids along with all the rest of your genetic material. The only significant brain altering that an addiction will cause (besides cases of psychosis in people with pre-existing mental conditions) is tolerance. If you take heroin or MDMA every day, then your brain is used to not having to make its own serotonin/endorphins and when you cease using the drug your levels of those chemicals will be artificially low.

[keats]

Well careful there, elscorcho. You're right to say that heroin doesn't alter brain chemistry in the manner being suggested, and the same goes for most drug addictions, but MDMA is something different. Extreme, prolonged MDMA abuse can lead to permanent changes in brain chemistry. Heroin addicts who clean up their act may still be a mess mentally, suffering from depression or anxiety as a result of trying to stay clean. MDMA, on the other hand, isn't physically addictive, but you do it often enough and long enough and, well...let's just say I think we've all met e-tards.

[merc11292]

Originally Posted by elscorcho717

Doesn't make sense. Drug addiction won't change your DNA and make your kids more susceptible to addiction. Rather, if you're a drug addict you already have the genes that predispose you to be addicted, and you pass those on to your kids along with all the rest of your genetic material. The only significant brain altering that an addiction will cause (besides cases of psychosis in people with pre-existing mental conditions) is tolerance. If you take heroin or MDMA every day, then your brain is used to not having to make its own serotonin/endorphins and when you cease using the drug your levels of those chemicals will be artificially low.

well like i said the article i read may not have been reliable but i dint mention addiction effects like u did above i said gene change in use in general being it once or 100 times, and i mite have misinterpritted it, or just been way off, but i am positive those 3 particle drugs (cocaine, tobacco, morphine) alter your brain in some form, short term of long term i just assumed it being hereditary, because theres a huge increased chance of drug use and alcoholism in those who have parents or grandparents that drank or did drugs.

heres what the article said:

Gene expression

Studies have shown that morphine can alter the expression of certain genes in human DNA. A single injection of morphine has been shown to alter the expression of two major groups of genes, for proteins involved in mitochondrial respiration and for cytoskeleton-related proteins.

i dont know much on the subject of DNA so i could be way off i just thought id share what i did read. If anyone understands exactly what those genes involve mentioned above do id love an explanation.

my reply btw is in no way meant to be argumentative towards you elscorcho717

Reputation Comments on this post:

good point

[imyourlittlebare]

Originally Posted by psyche

Heroin alters your brain structure? That's new to me, but since studies have failed to find heroin causing mental detoriation or other serious damage that study should be taken as what it is and avoid drawing I-feel-conclusions. Remember LSD and the chromosome damage? Sounds bad. Changes in the brain due to morphine? Can't be anything short of serious. By the way, what was the actual story of the LSD scare-studys? Because I remember reading that they were completely flawed, and then I've read that it's true but misleading, as caffeine causes a lot more chromosomal damage, and it isn't anything abnormal or dangerous.

well im glad its new to you. theres plenty of research help yourself to some of my offered abstracts. or dont. i dont care. its there buddy. it causes changes whether you like it or not. i accept it.

[cz-one]

I believe the research concerning opiates causing physical brain changes,goes along the lines that the neurotranmitters adapt themselves to being bathed in heroin and when that is taken away all the inhibited noradrenaline thats had to pump like crazy to get through being hindered in its job by the opiates,continues to,thus causing the physical withdrawal syndrome,and the fact that when addicts quit,even though they get through the worst of it,theres still many months of depression and emptiness after that,this,supposedly, is due to prolonged use causing physical changes in the brain,the question now is-are those changes permanent,or can your brain chemistry repair itself? there's theories going round that are starting to sound like drug war rheotoric-i.e."using opiates even once causes changes in the brain",but then again,as with all drugs,you ARE f**king about with a finely tuned brain chemistry,and there will always be those who suffer a hell of a lot more serious damage than the majority,so-just say no/yes/whatever!!!! as far actual DNA changes? who knows?

[imyourlittlebare]

if you look up LTP and morphine you will find an assortment of literature to suggest that it does permanently alter brain chemistry. here is a sample abstract of one such study

J

JOURNAL OF NEUROSCIENCE METHODS 124 (2): 189-196 APR 15 2003
Year: 2003 Abstract: Using a long-term potentiation (LTP) method, we attempted to establish an electrophysiological assay for morphine dependence and withdrawal in rats in vitro. The field excitatory postsynaptic potential (fEPSP) and orthodromic population spikes (OPS) were recorded from stratums radiatum and pyramidale, respectively, of area CA1 following stimulation of Schaffer collaterals in control and morphine-dependent slices. To induce LTP, a 100 Hz primed-burst stimulation protocol was used. Although morphine exposure had excitatory effects on control slices, namely, an increase in the amplitude of primary population spikes (PSs) and appearance of extra PSs, slices taken from dependent rats demonstrated tolerance to morphine. LTP of the fEPSP was not changed in slices from dependent animals although dependent slices did show an enhanced OPS LTP compared to control ones, which was attenuated by morphine exposure. In the presence of morphine, naloxone caused a withdrawal phenomenon; apparent as a robust enhanced OPS LTP in dependent slices. So we propose morphine-naloxone withdrawn slices as a suitable in vitro withdrawal-like model. Such an in vitro preparation could provide a convenient practical experimental tool for examination of the probable molecular and cellular mechanisms involved in withdrawal states. (C) 2003 Elsevier Science B.V. All rights reserved.

[imyourlittlebare]

BRAIN RESEARCH 815 (2): 419-423 JAN 9 1999 Year: 1999 Abstract: In this study, the effects of chronic morphine administration (20-30 days) on long-term potentiation (LTP) were investigated at the Schaffer collateral-CA1 pyramidal cell synapses of the rat hippocampal slices. Orthodromic population spike (OPS) amplitude and delay (peak latency) were measured as indices of increase in synaptic efficacy. The amounts of LTP of OPS delay and LTP of OPS amplitude were higher in slices from dependent rats. Perfusion of slices from control and dependent rats with morphine containing ACSF and delivering tetanic stimulation, showed that short-term presence of morphine could not mimic the LTP enhancing effects of chronic morphine administration, however, attenuated the amount of LTP of OPS amplitude in slices of dependent rats. This study supports the hypothesis that the susceptibility of CAI synapses to plastic changes increases by chronic, not acute exposure to morphine and suggests that a withdrawal phenomenon might be an underlying mechanism for the observed augmented LTP of OPS amplitude in slices of dependent rats. (C) 1999 Elsevier Science B.V. All rights reserved.

[imyourlittlebare]

Current status of drug dependence/abuse studies: Cellular and molecular mechanisms of drugs of abuse and neurotoxicity. p.414-423 Year: 2004 Abstract: The long-lasting effects of exposure to drugs of abuse on the brain is a central theme in drug addiction research. This study was designed to evaluate whether enduring neurochemical adaptations within caudate putamen can be evoked by a single injection of a high dose of morphine. Rats were pretreated once with 10 mg/kg morphine. Seven days later the effect of another injection of 10 mg/kg morphine on total levels of dopamine (DA), 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPAC), and homovanilic acid (HVA) in caudate putamen was assessed in half the pretreated animals. An irreversible μ-opioid receptor antagonist, cloccinamox (C-CAM; 0.1 mg/kg), significantly antagonized the elevation of the HVA/DA ratio, but not the elevation of the DOPAC/DA ratio induced by morphine in the caudate putamen from drug-naive animals. Pretreatment with morphine blunted changes in the HVA/DA ratio induced by another morphine challenge, but it had no effect on the DOPAC/DA ratio within the caudate putamen. Therefore, a single dose of 10 mg/kg morphine hampered nigrostriatal DA release and extraneuronal metabolism, μ-opioid receptor mediated, on another 10 mg/kg morphine challenge.

[psyche]

^ Yes, but life causes changes in the brain, it is just a grain of knowledge without knowing the implications it has. I beleive heroin and opiates are shown to not cause deficits in intelligence or memory, so what exactly do these alterations in brain mean, are they good, neutral, bad? But meth is completely different, it is quite neurotoxic and has a host of other toxic effects to your cardiovascular system for example. You don't see many people alive and well who have used meth for decades, but with opiates it is very possible.

[imyourlittlebare]

i should elaborate more. meth isnt easy. meth isnt good. meth is very addicting. if you stop using meth, in my opinion, is more managable than opiates. meth addicts although they lose pleasure in sexual desires and such can reverse though terrible life effecting changes with time. LTP is different. changes in the nucleus accumbus, the pleasure center of the brain are much more permanent. that is the basis for methadone treatment. opiates destroy branching in that area making it quite impossible to experience pleasure and such and the depression is like nothing you could imagine. theres a saying, neurons that wire together, fire together. LTP creates a chain of neurons that are dependant on eachother. meth causes branching from the nucleus accumbus. this is why meth addicts dont have a "long lasting dopamine agonist" approach like methadone. the branching deteriorates and can return to normal. the lasting changes made by heroin and such does cause brain damage that in some eyes is irreversable whcih is why they need methadone. ill find a source tomorrow at another computer or you can look in a neuroscience book.

[ukgal22]

Pretty bad, my legs kill in the morning and if I dont get a B by 11 am I'm f*cked.
Withdrawal for me is really painful, its just a horrible feeling, but its so hard to get off because for a tenner the pain can go away.

I think smack is very addictive, but only after repeated use. If you do it two or three times, its not going to get you hooked. I dont think I started withdrawing until two months patchy use.

Crack must be far more addictive, you cant get enough of that at the time, but then again heroin is a more long term addiction, you get over wanting some white after a couple of hours, smack lasts for days.

So yes....very painful! Take it from a true and regular addict.