Why Do I Get Sick on MDMA?

[paau]

.. swim is ALWAYS sick on E.
Well.. maybe not always, but most times. Like last time swim was sick 10 times! Whilst the time before that swim was sick once.
It always makes swim feel better but it's pretty embarassing as you can imagine.
Help?

[rxbandit]

could someone explain to me why people can't post informative thread titles so people interested and knowledgeable in the topic they wish can discuss can find the discussion and the people that are not interested can avoid said topic...

Sometimes the initial body rush of MDMA can be a bit overwhelming, swim also gets sick towards the begining but usually only after snorting pure mdma. Swim thinks the quick change in sensation can cause it but its possible some nasty reactions in the gut could be responsible.

[paau]

surely it's not too much effort to click the "back" button if you find yourself uniterested?

[rxbandit]

In my case it is not, but it is common courtesy to not use vague thread titles... it also seems to be a rule of sorts. If everyone started using titles equivalent to this one imagine how disorderly this forum would be.

If every thread was; A question?, I did it, can someone explain to me, curious?

I would not in fact be a member of this board because the appropriate people would not see the appropriate threads. finding the information one would be interested in would be impossible... catch my drift?

[paau]

well is there anyway I can change this?

[rxbandit]

its difficult when your a newbie. you do not get your little edit button until you achieve silver. If you locate the moderator of this forum you can personal message and request a thread name change or a delete. It is not guarenteed this will happen as they are very busy people. Heh just don't let it happen again and this minor slip will be insignificant.

[Nagognog2]

No. You have to bother a moderator who hasn't even had his first cup of coffee yet...

From the rules:

• Use descriptive Topic Subject. This will help others find what they want to read. Topics with bad Topic subjects may be deleted! - there's nothing more annoying than looking at all those stupid "A stupid question" subject lines. I mean, I'm damn lazy, but how hard is it to type "A stupid question about (insert something here)"? As a rule of thumb, most thread titles should include the full name of the drug discussed.

A rule many tend to forget will cause a mass of warnings soon...Rules are here:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/ann...t.php?f=43&a=1

[paau]

sorry

are there any other suggestions as to why i become nauseated whilst under the effects of MDMA?
does anyone know how i can avoid this??

[rxbandit]

The best way to avoid nausea when it comes to this class of substance is for swiy to take a third or so, wait 15 to 30 minutes then take the other third then repeat one more time. Swiy can split it up however he likes but dividing and spacing the dosage out slightly helps get rid of the nausea associated with a good number of drugs.

[coke]

Take it on an empty stomach

some people are allergic to mdma, not sure what the symptoms are however that might be something you should look into to make sure your not poisoning yourself when you take it.

[paau]

thanks for everyones help

[lulz]

You may have an unusually wired serotonin system.

This is from the wikipedia article on vomiting

The chemoreceptor trigger zone at the base of the fourth ventricle has numerous dopamine D2 receptors, serotonin 5-HT3 receptors, opioid receptors, Acetylcholine receptors, and receptors for substance P. Stimulation of different receptors are involved in different pathways leading to emesis, in the final common pathway substance P appears to be involved.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vomiting#Vomiting_center

MDMA doesn't work by using serotonin alone, it's mechanism of action is complex and involves at least glutamate and dopamine.

But what's relevent to you, is that one of the serotonin receptors it specifically acts on is the 5-HT3 receptor.

In this study, MDMA's suppressant action was reversed by the 5-HT3 receptor antagonists S-zacopride, granisetron and the 5-HT,,2 receptor antagonist metergoline. However, the antagonism produced by S-zacopride and granisetron was less consistent than metergoline. The data suggest that both 5-HT, and 5HT3 receptors may play a role in mediating MDMA's suppressant effect in the mPFc.

http://www.drugtext.org/library/rese...12/default.htm

Everybody's nervous system is wired differently. Perhaps you have a higher amount of 5-HT3 receptors than most people, and when you take MDMA the massive amounts of serotonin released activate enough of the 5-HT3 receptors to trigger vomiting.

If this is the case, you could try getting your hands on a 5-HT3 antagonist (a medication that blocks these receptors from being activated). Fortunately for you, these are prescribed by doctors and are not controlled substances. They are usually prescribed for things like fighting nausea in cancer patients during treatments, but I'd say this one is your best bet because it can be prescribed from irritable bowel syndrome:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ondansetron

You could probably get them prescribed quite easily if you described the symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome to a doctor and brought along some printed out research from the internet about one of these 5-HT3 antagonists. Tell him that you've tried the over the counter remedies, the herbal stuff and whatnot (research a few names first), and say they haven't worked. But tell him you found on wikipedia that there are drugs which work on serotonin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irritab...nin_.285-HT.29

And that you looked into it, and you'd like to try one out, because IBS is such a problem to your quality of life. Specifically print out the references on the wikipedia link I posted for Ondansetron, because it's been around 20 years and it's also available in generic forms now, which would save you from paying big bills to treat your condition.

Of course all this depends on how good a liar you are, and how much you research the stuff I posted. I'd say it should work, and a 5-HT3 antagonist seems the most logical solution to your problem of vomiting.

It's not uncommon for people to feel nausea on ecstasy (personally my crazy uncle Joe NEVER wants to touch pills again, only trusts MDMA crystal), and sometimes it can simply be fixed by taking a few antacids. On the other hand, some people like you seem to feel much worse. Like this guy on erowid, who had a similar experience to you, only his gastrointestinal system was pumping stuff out the other end.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=23068

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the information

[paau]

wow thank you, that was very helpful!

[paau]

would an antagonist affect SWIM's roll??

[rxbandit]

The antagonist would have to be specefic to that certain receptor and no other serotonin or dopamine subreceptors. Swim doubts there is an antagonist that is that specefic, if it were to effect other serotonin sub receptors the liklihood swiy wouldnt roll is fairly high.

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by rxbandit

The antagonist would have to be specefic to that certain receptor and no other serotonin or dopamine subreceptors. Swim doubts there is an antagonist that is that specefic, if it were to effect other serotonin sub receptors the liklihood swiy wouldnt roll is fairly high.

SWIF has rolled using ondansetron for other reasons, the primary effects of MDMA were left unaffected ie empathy, energy, although the feeling was slightly altered. This may have been due to environment as it's so difficult to determine but SWIF thinks the Ondansetron may have played a part.

On a side note Ondansetron is very effective with sickness, best anti-emetic SWIF has used ever.

[lulz]

Originally Posted by rxbandit

The antagonist would have to be specefic to that certain receptor and no other serotonin or dopamine subreceptors. Swim doubts there is an antagonist that is that specefic, if it were to effect other serotonin sub receptors the liklihood swiy wouldnt roll is fairly high.

The only effect it would have on a an MDMA experience is to block the vomiting mechanism:

Ondansetron is a specific antagonist of 5-HT3 serotonin receptors.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t=AbstractPlus

The biggest mechanism of MDMA's action is when it reaches the vesicle of a serotonin neuron, it causes the vesicle to release it's stored up contents, resulting in a massive stimulation of serotonin receptors. It also does other things too, as well as it's metabolites like MDA, but ondansetron specifically antagonises HT-3 receptors, and they are only responsible for triggering the vomiting reflex.

[rxbandit]

wasnt aware of such a drug. Is it available OTC? and would it hypothetically alleviate all the nausea associate with most pyschedelic tryptamines and phenethylamines?

[jetsetwilly]

swims problem is slightly different . swims girlfriend is fine when fully charged but her comedown is very nauseous and can last for 4/5 days sometimes with heavy vomiting on and off . this happens after consumption of any more than 3 pills / any amount of mdma crystal.

[Nose Dive]

My Bill's friend vomits sometimes when he rolls or snorts keamine, usually when he throws up from rolling he comes up and has an awesome time. Again my theory of bodily exertion coming into play.

[paau]

it's true, the best nights swim's ever had have been sickly

[sockchemy]

Whilst SWIM has never been sick from MDMA in many experiences, One of SWIM's friends ALWAYS gets sick on MDMA. Strange. SWIM's friend still enjoys MDMA quite a bit and feels the sick part is acceptable. As a matter of fact, SWIM has heard him categorize the getting sick part as pleasant sometimes!

[kakakaka]

Swim is also sick 9/10 on mdma. Strangley enough he never used to be and once day he just started feeling sick when the first pill started coming up. Swim thought it was just the pills getting worse or something new was being added that his body didnt accept. Then He relised that if he was outside walking about or rather than sitting in a house he didnt feel sick at all.

Could it be that sitting around and not doing anything is causing swim's serotonin to build up more than it would if he was say outside walking around and therefore when released its too much for his 5-HT3 receptors, triggering his body to spew ??

[Nose Dive]

Actually, you may have something there. My Bill remembers the first time he rolled was at the Reading Festival and at one point he was sitting around and he felt real ill. The only time he felt better was when he started walking around.

[paau]

i find jumping around with any sort of fluid in my stomach triggers it alot
and smoking