Is cocaine addictive ? defining the nature of cocaine / crack addiction

[Nicaine]

Re: kratom, try a forum search. Already too much info there for SWIM to be arsed to type out a full reply.

[epote]

A friend of mine dreamed the following dream, the user epote merely quotes his friends opinions:

The following post does not condone the use of cocaine or any illegal psychoactive drug in any way, it is merely informative of ones opinions, some based on experience and observation others based on literature (and im actually not kidding, do not misinterpret this as a justification to let use of cocaine or any other drug get out of hand!)

Swim knows cocaine some ten months now. In that ten months he has spend close to 2000euro in obtaining actual cocaine, paraphernalia, books and chemicals supplies in order to purify it. The total cocaine amount bought is in the region of 20 grams in those ten moths (december till september), though actually used less than five grams out of those 20, the rest 15-16 grams where disposed, given away or lost during clean up procedures.

Swim believes himself to be a connoisseur at this point, using cocaine for the pleasures and maintaining a control over it. Swim being somewhat blessed with an above average intelligence (i.e. he is not moronic) has come to observe several patterns in himself and have subsequently verified them through actual studies. Swim has not used that much but is confident that while the quantities where few the signs where there (although not as pronounced) for an informed individual to notice (and subsequently not cross the lines)

Swim figures that cocaine use more often than not follows a pattern similar to a damped sinusoidal:



(well thats from current in a circuit but you get the point)

Most users go from infrequent use to (self reported) high use at which point the negatives of cocaine actually inhibit its very use, which leads to abstinence or lower volume of use. After some time several defense mechanisms establish in the users mind making cocaine desirable again (and give a perception of being able to maintain absolute control) at which point use is initiated (or increased again) to reach another peak etc.

While this is by no means accurate, most users after some time (be it a few or alot of years) either completely quit or develop a pattern of use that is in fact recreational with the occasional small binge type period.

In the study that is attached paradoxically none of the users reported money as an inhibitory cause.

Off 160 samples, in a follow up study 10 years later 64 where reachable. Out of those 64 only 19 reported cocaine use in the last four weeks...

Of all the cocaine users very few went into the "very high cocaine use" group (i.e. more than 2.5gr a week) and even then it was not sustained for very long.

Out of those that where abstinent most had lucrative jobs and a relatively stable relationship. Of all people only five said that they where not going t use cocaine ever again.

In swim opinion cocaine use among educated, reasonably motivated individuals cocaine use is self limiting. It tends to get out of hand where other variable exists.

the study:

TEN YEARS OF COCAINE
A follow-up study of 64 cocaine users in Amsterdam
Peter Cohen & Arjan Sas

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting study!

[imyourlittlebare]

I dont believe that. I believe it is a full time job to control ones self and sometimes especially the smarter people can full themselves into thinking they beat it. However, this is just disputing your other variable theory. My main theory of susceptability to cocaine addiction is if the individual has an undiagnosed problem such as add or adhd and is exposed to cocaine that gives them biological relief. I believe i read a statistic not long ago that said an alarming number of cocaine addicts could have been diagnosed add or adhd. But if you dont believe in the add or adhd disease model then this is meaningless. Again no way attacking you, I agree with you. Swim spent about a grand on cocaine over the course of 5 years.

[epote]

especially for add people, i believe that cocaine is kind of strange. I.e they can get hooked faster (due to the relieve) but the crash and/or withdrowal periods are less intence.

but yes i agree with you.

though do read the study its very interesting, and dont forget there are several types of ADD

[imyourlittlebare]

Originally Posted by epote

especially for add people, i believe that cocaine is kind of strange. I.e they can get hooked faster (due to the relieve) but the crash and/or withdrowal periods are less intence.

but yes i agree with you.

though do read the study its very interesting, and dont forget there are several types of ADD

I was just making a general statement. Ill be sure to look the stuff over. Thanks for the post!

cocaine is a very addictive drug, but not in the way you might think!



you will not get addicted on your first line, nore will u get addicted
on your third or fourth, but if you start to use cocaine lets say every
couple of weeks, sooner or later, it taps in to your dopomine ( natural
reward ) system!



so your brain soon gets use to the cocaine, and needs cocaine to
experince pleasure, so sooner or later, your just need the drug to feel
normall!

[Nicaine]

Partially true, IMO. In my opinion, cola "addiction" is probably 75% psychological and 25% brain-chemistry related. Not that psychological dependence is anything less... if anything, it's far more powerful and long lasting.

It takes about 1 to 3 weeks to recover from all brain chemistry issues. That aspect alone makes it easier to overcome this dimension of dependence.

Psychological dependency can last any length of time at all. From one day to forever.

As far as how long it takes to get addicted? To powder? Let me venture a rough estimate -- about one month of fairly heavy use. Once weekly use won't cause any addiction in most cases. Twice weekly use is beginning to ask for it though. More often than that is begging for a dependency of some sort.

All just IMHO.Edited by: Nicaine

[frosty]

The thing about coke addiction at least for me is that cocaine is
sneaky addictive. After the initial withdrawl I never have any symptoms
like you do with nicotine or something...except that it always shows
back up....it all started the third time I did it at the end of
November I've averaged 2-3 days a week since then with up to 6 day
binges...its ridiculous...at least it hasn't adversely affected my
life....well I don't have any money saved but all my bills are paid.

[lilsteve]

When my friends split an 8ball (their first coke ever), they spent the
entire night discussing how addictive it was, and when was the next
time they should be able to do it without getting hooked. Nobody seemed
to notice that right there was the psychological addiction. Rather than
taking advantage of their burst of energy, they sat around planning
when they could take it again.



It was all very hysterical/distressing for me at the time.

[motorhead]

Sometimes i like to think about the nature of drugs. I beleive that anyone can become addicted to any drug. The intense, yet visciously brief high of coke makes it a double edged sword many cannot resist. Cocaines nature is to turn youon yourself, make you selfish, and to plant the words "more, more, more...." into your brain.

[Softrat]

I have never done coke, but from what I have heard cocaine is not physically addictive at all. It is all psycholocial habitualtion. Habituation is a property of a person, not a drug.


The fact the cocaine effects the dopamine system means it is pleasureful, not addictive. Anything that is pleasent, not just drugs, may be effecting the dopamine system. If a person uses coke to excess cause they like it that is fundamentaly a different phenomenon than addiction.





Even if cocaine caused a reduction in dopamine with excessive use this would not be the same thing as a true addiction cause the person would still feel like crap even if they continued to use the coke. Also the stoping of the cocaine would not cause additional sysmtoms of pain or sickness, it would in fact casue the person to gradualy start feeling better.

[prospero]

Psychological addiction is always far more difficult to deal with than physical addiction - for any drug. It also seems to be a character trait so you shouldknow by now if you are at risk - are you an habitual smoker, do you drink a lot or find it difficult to say no when offered another, do you eat to excess etc etc. I am veryfortunate in thatI never get addicted to anything; a friend of mine on the other hand says she would never take any drugs (and never has) because she has enough trouble keeping her red wineconsumption under control, and knows thatother, even more addictive substances would just be the end of her. Edited by: prospero

[club222]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Cocaines nature is to turn youon yourself,
make you selfish, and to plant the words "more, more, more...." into
your brain.

and it can do that VERY WELL, if you let your gaurd down.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by club222

and it can do that VERY WELL, if you let your gaurd down.

... which nearly everyone does. SWIM doesn't know a single person who keeps some sort of "guard" up against selfishness, etc. while doing cola. IMO it's the nature of the beast, and SWIM has come to expect it as a routine sort of thing where cola is involved. People will pinch extra if they can, will stash some for themselves when sharing, will overcharge or under-amount you if at all possible, will tend to share as little as possible, etc. etc. it's perfectly normal (and always a pleasant surprise when it doesn't occur).

Just out of curiosity... say you were doing it with a friend and you had a vial containing a couple g's. Would you leave it sitting on the table in plain view while you went to the bathroom? Didn't think so.Edited by: Nicaine

[club222]

Originally Posted by Nicaine

... which nearly everyone does. SWIM doesn't know a
single person who keeps some sort of "guard" up against selfishness,
etc. while doing cola. IMO it's the nature of the beast, and SWIM has
come to expect it as a routine sort of thing where cola is involved.
People will pinch extra if they can, will stash some for themselves
when sharing, will overcharge or under-amount you if at all possible,
will tend to share as little as possible, etc. etc. it's perfectly
normal (and always a pleasant surprise when it doesn't occur).

SWIM knows exactly what you mean. There have been plenty of times when
in a night when he was sharing, he would offer people lines, but make
them very small. He would then ask them if they wanted more and a good
number of the people that he hung out with would say something like
"Nah, that's great!" just to try and not seem like a total moocher.
SWIM knew in the back of his mind that was going to happen so that's
why he offered very little. Hehe, but then a couple people did want
larger lines, but hell, he was flying high on coke and feeling great,
let everyone feel great!! There were times when SWIM would pick up some
cola for a friend who wasn't with him on the pickup, and just seeing
that little pouch in his hands, he had to open it up and taste a
little. Even if it wasn't going to be enough to get him high at all, he
still found himself doing it whenever possible.

[wingsofazrael]

swim has never had any withdrawal symptoms over his few years of usage. the longest run was 9 days and after swim was finished with it, he didnt want nothing to do with coke. he just wanted a bed. naturally a few months later it crept back in and so forth. but in so much as negative withdrawal symptoms, swim hasnt had any.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by wingsofazrael

swim has never had any withdrawal symptoms over his few years of usage.* the longest run was 9 days (...)

That's probably why, 9 days is not long enough to significantly disrupt brain chemistry. Anhedonia and depression are fairly common and well known withdrawal symptoms. SWIM's experiencing some sexual disturbance at the moment (as in, without cola sex is worthless) which is probably due in part to depletion of dopamine & norepinephrine.

Luckily, brain chemicals never take too long to get back to normal (absent depression). About a month max, usually.Edited by: Nicaine

[frosty]

Originally Posted by Nicaine

Just out of curiosity... say you were doing it with a friend
and you had a vial containing a couple g's. Would you leave it sitting
on the table in plain view while you went to the bathroom? Didn't think
so.

My good friends? I most definately would...I don't mind sharing as long
and I share a good amount its when I finally fall asleep and someone
trys to pull it out my pocket i get a bit pissed

[yebo]

Originally Posted by Nicaine

That's probably why, 9 days is not long enough to significantly disrupt brain chemistry. Anhedonia
and depression are fairly common and well known withdrawal symptoms.
SWIM's experiencing some sexual disturbance at the moment (as in,
without cola sex is worthless) which is probably due in part to
depletion of dopamine & norepinephrine.



Luckily, brain chemicals never take too long to get back to normal (absent depression). About a month max, usually.

What duration significantly disrupts the brain chemistry?



SWIM has yet to notice anything beyond the exhaustion from lack of
sleep and overworked muscles, maybe a bit of guilt/depression. He
always enjoys a nice good meal the day after though.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by yebo

What duration significantly disrupts the brain chemistry?

No clue... I could only guess about a month of using it at least 3 times/week. Takes time. Probably not the same for everyone. I'm positive it throws off levels of dopamine, serotonin and such tho, at least for most people.

I've heard some people who use regularly on weekends get depressed & some jonesing toward the middle of the week. Hearsay only.Edited by: Nicaine

[frosty]

Originally Posted by Nicaine

I've heard some people who use regularly on weekends get depressed
& some jonesing toward the middle of the week. Hearsay only.

Yes I get the mid week slumps all the time after a hard weekend

[thegod1]

Swim has used it about 20 times, sometimes regulary an sometimes not. Never been addicted.


However, Each time used, Swim found it hard not to buy more.


All i can advise is to not buy it each and every single time you think about it. Sound easy but its not.

[Creeping Death]

How addictive is cocaine really? I've heard that it's not very phisiclly damaging or phisiclly addictive at all. But i recently saw a documentary saying that it's one of the most addictive drugs ever.

And when monkeys tried it, they would choose coke over food untill they died from starvation. What should you belive?

[raven3davis]

SWIM has used coke many many times and feels no need to do any right now. SWIM will definitely do coke again but who knows when. It isnt really that addictive, only when your on it IMO, but everyone is different. SWIM knows people who have been hooked, and to them it probably is addictive as anything. It all depends on you as a person, your current situation, and your brain chemistry. Money has a lot to do with it too.

[thegod1]

Swim found cocaine to be addictive if used regulary. If he brought it once every few weeks, it would be easy to handle, but when he brought ita few times a week it got hard for him to stop buying more.Edited by: thegod1