Combinations - Effect of Antidepressants (including SSRIs) on LSD?

[mark111]

im on zoloft and was wondering if taking acid or shrooms on it could mess me up or kill me

[Curtains]

well not sure about acid but SSRI's greatlyweaken the effects of shrooms, from my experince

[wednesday]

most drugs at least for a little bit of time weaken the immune system so even if you aren't on anything its a good idea to be taking lots of vitamins...

Paul

[Micklemouse]

The consensus seems to be that SSRI's weaken the effects of hallucinogens. However this seems to vary considerably from person to person and SSRI to SSRI, with a lot depending on the medication's halflife(the length of time taken for the amount of chemical to break down to half of the original amount - the longer the halflife the greater the build up in the system, and the longer it takes to leave). Zoloft(generic Sertraline) has a relatively long half life and from what I can gather weakens the trip, wheras Paxil(gen Paroxetine) has a short halflife and reportedly strengthens the trip. I must stress again that this varies from person to person, so be careful.

A couple of other points to consider before you trip...

a) if you have been prescribed Sertraline I'd assume that you have been diagnosed with depression, PTSD or OCD, in which case is it really such a good idea to take a drug that may heighten anxiety, paranoia, awareness of negative thoughts, feelings and experiences and cause an increased lowering of mood in the days following?;

b) SSRI's, LSD and Shrooms all raise the levels of serotonin in the body to a sometimes dangerous and potentially fatal level. Please read up on Serotonin Syndrome - use the site Search Engine or a web search. Serotonin Syndrome is relatively rare but not unknown.

Both SSRI's and Hallucinogens are powerful drugs, so be very, very careful... Edited by: micklemouse

Reputation Comments on this post:

great helpful post!

[Bojangles]

I used to be on the highest dose of Zoloft (sertraline) four about 4 years. I was in high school at that time. I tried to roll on about 5 different occasions. I never felt anything, once even took 5 pills and everyone else was faced on one. I dude was reliable and his source was good...is just Zoloft I thought that did that. Well now I've been on Prozac (fluxentine) for about 2 years. I heard E was coming and I always want to actually experience the feeling you get from it. So I decided to stop taking my Prozac about two days before. It was 10am and I was in Ocean City, NJ on the beach and I took two e pills. Green dolphins. They were dopey yet speedy...kinda like taking lots of vicoden...I did enjoy myself.


I've always heard that SSRI's can decrease your trips/roll. Well so far...I have always tripped...but I have only rolled while on a short break from my Prozac.... Zoloft and Prozac are both SSRI's but I guess everything acts slightly different.


One other thing to add...I was at a party once and there was a girl who never rolled before and had the opportunity....I was just talking to her and asked if she took any medications. She said she was on Celexa (another SSRI). I warned her that SSRI's can make you not roll. She took two pills and felt nothing, everyone else was faced. I had to say it, but told you so to her!

[sadskills1987]

swim hasthought of the ssri question before,but nowswim isrx'ed an snri (selective norepinephrine reputake inhibitor) called effexor... i'll post results w/ what happens to him if he's willing to experiment

[Mike177]

yes, SSRI's defenetly can, and will, cancel the effects of MDMA.





[quote=Erowid.org]


As many of you are aware, over the past months I have been conducting a retrospective study here at the National Institute of Mental Health on the interactions of hallucinogens and antidepressants in humans. I'm finally at a place where I can reveal my results. These data have already been presented at the Serotonin Club meeting in Chicago this summer and are in the process of being written up for submission to pharmacology/psychiatry journals (I'll post the references later, assuming the manuscripts are accepted).


Thanks to all of you on the Net who responded to my requests for subjects!


The basic idea of the study arose because I have a lot of friends who have been on antidepressants and also have a long-standing interest in hallucinogens. They would call me up (as their personal pharmacologist) and want to know why they had unusual responses to LSD while they were taking antidepressants. It turned out that the experience one had on LSD could be highly variable, dependent on which antidepressant one was taking. Based on these initial reports, I asked to interview people with similar histories by placing announcements in the local D.C. alternative newspaper, on newsgroups on the Net, and by an article in the MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) newsletter. People also contacted me after hearing of the study by word of mouth or by being referred by a health professional.


Although many many people responded to my request, I was only able to use those reports where there was a "control" condition, ie: either the person had taken the same hallucinogen prior to antidepressant treatment or else had friends who had taken the same hallucinogen but were on on antidepressants. Everyone who participated was given a structured questionnaire that first asked about the person's antidepressant treatment, other drugs they regularly consumed, and past experience with hallucinogens. Then I asked about the experience the person had with a hallucinogen while taking an antidepressant. The main thing I was interested in was whether there was an increase, a decrease or no change in the person's response to the hallucinogen in terms of the time it took to get high, the physical effects, the hallucinatory effects, the psychological effects, the total time they were high, any aftereffects or alterations in sleep and then their overall impression of the trip.


In a nutshell, people who were taking serotonin-selective antidepressants or MAO inhibitors had a decrease or abolishment of their response to hallucinogens. This is in contrast to what happens when people were taking tricyclic antidepressants or lithium: they had a vast increase in their response to hallucinogens. Please note that everyone who responded had been taking antidepressants for at least 3-4 weeks, if not longer. This is the time necessary for therapeutic effects to begin, and this is thought to correlate with changes in neurotransmitter systems in the brain. We have no information about what happens when people have only taken antidepressants for a short time and then consume a hallucinogen.


Below is a more comprehensive summary of the data:


SEROTONIN-SELECTIVE ANTIDEPRESSANTS:


*Fluoxetine* (Prozac) -- even at doses of this antidepressant ranging from 2mg/day to 40 mg/day, there was an overall decrease in most effects from LSD (no matter how much acid people took), as well as a decrease in response to ketamine. There was no change in response to psilocybin. There does seem to be a decrease in the response to MDMA.


*Sertraline* (Zoloft) -- the effect with this antidepressant seems to be dose-dependent. At 50 mg/day, there was no effect on the response to LSD nor to psilocybin. However, at 100 mg/day, there was a decrease in response to both LSD and MDMA.


*Paroxetine* (Paxil) -- decrease in response to LSD.


*Trazodone* (Desyrel) -- decrease in response to LSD.


TRICYCLIC ANTIDEPRESSANTS:


*Imipramine* (Tofranil) -- increase in response to LSD.


*Desipramine* (Norpramine) -- increase in response to LSD.


*Clomipramine* (Anafranil) -- increase in response to LSD.


LITHIUM:


(*alone* or *in combination with a tricyclic antidepressant*) -- increase in response to LSD or psilocybin.


MONOAMINE OXIDASE INHIBITOR:


*Phenelzine* (Nardil) -- decrease in response to LSD
**TAKE NOTE OF THE RESPONSE TO MDMA: combining an MAO inhibitor plus MDMA has led to a hypertensive crisis and a near-fatal response in many people!!! This could be anticipated because MDMA is a substituted amphetamine, and stimulants should not be combined with an MAO inhibitor!!! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!


There were a few other psychotherapeutic drugs that people combined with a hallucinogen, but you'll have to wait for the journal articles for these odd responses.


How do we explain these data?? Well, this is a bit of a theoretical problem. One would want to say that the hallucinogenic response occurs because of 5-HT-2 stimulation and therefore there was down-regulation of 5-HT-2 sites following serotonin-selective antidepressants and MAO inhibitors, thus leading to elimination of the hallucinogenic response. The problem is that these antidepressants do not always alter the brain in this way. The other, bigger, problem is that tricyclic antidepressants are thought to act very similarly to SSRI's in their ability to down-regulate 5-HT-2 sites, and thus there is no accounting for the appearance that TCA's increase response to LSD. We are at the stage now where we are trying to formulate a theory based on the difference between classes of drugs in terms of their effects on 5-HT-1A sites and in terms of the way the different antidepressant change serotonin levels. Since LSD has effects not only at 5-HT-2 sites but also at 5-HT-1A sites, this may allow for why these drugs affect the hallucinogenic response differently.


So, thanks for all the support I received from everyone who helped out with this study. All of you who participated and then kept quiet about my results receive my gratitude. Special thanks to Lamont Granquist who not only was very helpful in recruiting subjects for me and for sending me references I might have otherwise missed but restrained himself for months from spreading the word about these interesting results.


If anyone out there knows of someone who could be a subject, they can contact me with the information below. I'm basically in the last phase of writing the manuscripts, but could still interview someone if they wanted to step forward, especially those who have used MDMA. Contact me at:


Kit Bonson, Ph.D.
kbonson@earthlink.net[/quote]








Here is a link with some usefull information on the matter.


Hope it helps,


Mike

[Caliform]

From what I know of SSRI on Mushies (psilocybin) and LSD effects is
that it can take all effects away at even 30 mg (daily). So, get off
'em.

[polloloco001]

i was on 50 mg of zoloft for a while. during this time ecstasy didnt
work on me whatsoever unless i quit taking zoloft for about a week
beforehand. the effects of mushrooms and lsd, however, wereif anything increased, and certainly not reduced, by the medication.

[Jatelka]

If you really need antidepressants and want to continue taking MDMA, LSD (+ marijuana: For SWIM) or 2-CI then go for one of the tricyclics: SWIM recommends Dothiepin (dosulepin): Certainly with LSD and 2-CI she got far more off a standard dose than she would have expected. MDMA wise things just seemed much smoother and trippier towards the end.


SWIM is happy to report that she has not required Dothiepin for 3 years (and is not missing the dry mouth and urinary retention one bit!)


Peace X

[jjeremy1977]

Watched House on Fox this week. Doctor House took a hit of acid for a migraine and then took antidepresents to counteract the effects of the lsd. He stated a sense of purity things coming full circle and karma. Is there some antidepresent which will counteract the thought pattern of lsd. Second would this be a parachute for a bad trip?

[motorhead]

Stop taking drug advice or any information from network television.

[jjeremy1977]

I figured as much but after 6 years and one really long bad trip would love to be hopeful of a safeguard. Trippin for life.

[motorhead]

safeguard from what? i dont get whaat your saying.Swim needs more info

[jjeremy1977]

A safe way to neturalize a bad mind set. In some of my experiences I begin to think negative and my mind continues to trip on it which drastically increases to a really bad trip and though I know It's just that it seems like it will never end . I once went into panic and I started thinking it would be possible for one to scare oneself to death my heart was pounding I had trouble breathing then I actually saw myself sitting across the room I heard alarms ringing then I saw then the other me said "take another hit, smoke another ciggerett I dare you' as one could imagine it continued to get worse I thought I was dying which followed by my own death then I was in purgatory with myself hearing every lie I had ever told and remebering why seeing myself at all different ages tearing through my mind afraid to stop for the fear of god. Although I have lots of crazy mind trips I love the adventure and psyhic flashes into the future sharing one concious mind with those around me and all the impossible facts made faact. just would like to be able to turn off when things go bad. I can't deny one learns the most from a bad trip but Don't like them neverless. Which is why it would me great if antidepresents could counteract the thought pattern to carefree visual experience.

[motorhead]

I say fuck all that and just dont do acid. Find something else that makes you think about LIFE for one thing. come on use common sense here man. smoke a joint, drink a beer, laugh with friends, hahhahahahahahah, get it>>>???It seems youve found something that doesnt make you happy. so find something that does.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good post

[sands of time]

Honestly, I like that show, but occasionally some of the facts are incorrect. On an episode from last season, House claimed that kids were abusing GHB because it was a legal high. Completely not true of course... I don't think that LSD and antidepressant thing made any sense. Are migraines really caused by a lack of serotonin, particularly the serotonin that binds with the 5HT2A receptor site? And why would an antidepressant stop this from occurring, since an antidepressant slows the reuptake of serotonin? If anything, it would work synergenically with the LSD. I'm no expert though.

[sands of time]

In the episode, House dropped acid, then took an antidepressant. The antidepressant stopped the trip in a matter of an hour. That would not work, correct?

[Micklemouse]

Originally Posted by sands of time

In the episode, House dropped acid, then took an antidepressant. The antidepressant stopped the trip in a matter of an hour. That would not work, correct?

Correct, although an ssri could decrease the effects. It would be intensified by a tricyclic, and if the antidepressant was a MAOI could lead to a hypertensive crisis and maybe even death if seriously unlucky.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info4.shtml

The science behind taking lsd for a migraine, although questionable does have some basis in reality, triptans (5ht1 agonists) and ergotomines having been used in migraine treatment and prophylaxis for some time, and studies starting up thanks to M.A.P.S. and Erowid on the use of tryptamines (esp low dose psilocybe) in again the prevention of cluster headaches.

http://www.maps.org/research/cluster/psilo-lsd/

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...24881.400.html

However, the fact remains that taking an antidepressant will not stop a trip in it's tracks.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good info as usual
	excellent info like always

[darawk]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

Correct, although an ssri could decrease the effects. It would be intensified by a tricyclic, and if the antidepressant was a MAOI could lead to a hypertensive crisis and maybe even death if seriously unlucky.

I don't think the MAOI + LSD combination would make that particularly more likely. It would definitely intensify the trip, but the greater risk of death / hypertensive crisis over a control would probably be very slight.

Anti-depressants might slightly block the effects of LSD - but more likely, he took an anti-psychotic. Anti-psychotics that block the 5HT-2A receptor WILL abort almost any psychedelic trip.

[chAos]

Originally Posted by darawk

I don't think the MAOI + LSD combination would make that particularly more likely. It would definitely intensify the trip, but the greater risk of death / hypertensive crisis over a control would probably be very slight.

Indeed, LSD+MAOI is a safe combinaition when the user is carefull about what he eats. (just like MAOI+mushrooms). What's dangerous about it is that a MAOI might be dangerous when combined with some research chemicals.

[kemistudent]

I am not sure if that would STOP an LSD trip but it might surpress the intensity of it..

Whenever I dose myself, intentionally, or accidently, I always have fast acting benzodiazapines around and in great quantities. Some people have little quirks that help keep them sane during a psychedelic experience. For instance, I like to drink lots of beer when swim doses on LSD. I can usually kick a case by myself. When it comes to 2CB, no beer is needed, but in both cases I like benzo's available in the case that I need one or five.

This is not recomended for most people as the loss of reasoning goes out the window when intoxicated to this extent and you may end up taking more benzo's than needed on a body intoxicated with alcohol and LSD.

Shit, your little "safeguard" could be a cabbage patch doll for all you know, try it and let us know! = P

[sands of time]

Micklemouse, you never cease to amaze me... Great info!

[JohnnySodoff]

So about the part about SSRI's and MAOI's and what not...

Someone was wondering if anyone knows what kind of medication Klonopin (clonazepam) is and if there was danger in taking it with LSD.

Someone takes Paxil and Klonopin. That wouldn't happen to fall into the sometimes fatal category I was just reading about would it?

[Nagognog2]

Paxil will lower the effect of LSD-25. Klonopin is a fancy benzodiazepine - related to diazepam - Valium. It wouldn't counter the effects like Paxil, but would calm it down.