Would you say that Salvia Divinorum is stronger then acid?

[Rio Fantastic]

Would you say that some strong salvia extract is stronger then good acid? I have heard acid described as the most powerful mind-altering tool known to man, but I've been reading some reports about Salvia and it seems incredible. What do you think?

[Nature Boy]

What exactly is meant by strength? In terms of dosage, LSD wins, hands down. The actual experiences are completely different. Salvia divinorum is an atypical psychedelic that is not truly comparable to any other psychoactive SWIM knows of.

[jcdjinn]

Salvia doesn't give the true hallucinations or the feeling of realizing "hey I'm tripping, this rocks!" It sends you into a swirling dream state where you can't tell the difference between reality and whatever weird images are going through your mind. It's no where near as fun as mushrooms or acid in SWIM's opinion.

[DOHP]

Well heres the low down:

LSD-25 active at around 150ug
salvinorin A active at 400ug

So for potiency LSD-25 wins hands down out of almost every pychedelic drug apart from Eth-LAD.

However for effect they are very different. I would describe Salvia Divinorum as a downer (like a benzo or opiod) because it works on the opiod keppa region of the brain producing [very] wierd dream like effects and quite easily will rip away your ego along with every memory you hold.
LSD-25 is more of an upper, as roughly put it stops the brain monitoring itself, allowing thoughts, visions and memorys to become stronger. In effect putting your brain in overdrive.

[Nature Boy]

LSD can be active at lower than 150ug. The average blotter probably contains 75ug or less.

[DOHP]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

LSD can be active at lower than 150ug. The average blotter probably contains 75ug or less.

Thanks for the info. Damn that would be a weak blotter!
Eth-LAD is active at 40ug which is derived from LSD.

[Twiglet]

Erowid says salvinorin A is most powerful Psychedelic

The most powerful natural psychedelic known has recently been isolated from a rare Mexican sage, Salvia divinorum. The active compound, SALVINORIN A, has astonished users and researchers with its dramatic and intense psychoactive effects, which are quite distinct from those of other psychedelics. Early experiments with salvinorin A have shown diverse results, ranging from alarming intensity and terror, to experiences of exquisite feelings and insights, transformative and healing energies, and bizarre physical/geometric dimensions.
http://www.erowid.org/library/books/salvinorin.shtml

[Salvinorin A]

Originally Posted by twiglet

Erowid says salvinorin A is most powerful Psychedelic

The most powerful natural psychedelic known has recently been isolated from a rare Mexican sage, Salvia divinorum. The active compound, SALVINORIN A, has astonished users and researchers with its dramatic and intense psychoactive effects, which are quite distinct from those of other psychedelics. Early experiments with salvinorin A have shown diverse results, ranging from alarming intensity and terror, to experiences of exquisite feelings and insights, transformative and healing energies, and bizarre physical/geometric dimensions.
http://www.erowid.org/library/books/salvinorin.shtml

Nah, it says most powerfully NATURALLY occuring psychadelic. Not as potent as LSD-25 or Eth-LAD, but those don't occur in nature...do they?

[DOHP]

Originally Posted by Salvinorin A

Nah, it says most powerfully NATURALLY occuring psychadelic. Not as potent as LSD-25 or Eth-LAD, but those don't occur in nature...do they?

Well they do to a degree, LSD-25 can be found in ergot fungus, and in Morning Glory Seeds (and other LSA compounds) although LSD-25 is semi synthetic. Although when you think about the process that it takes to extract LSD-25, you could barley call it natural.

[Twiglet]

Originally Posted by Salvinorin A

Nah, it says most powerfully NATURALLY occuring

Sorry swim thought you needed chemilcals to get out the Salvinorin A.
Pure savinorin A, even though natural, is not available unless swiys play with plant ?.
Also swim thinks that the original question is which is stronger.
Swim does not think anyone can get strong affects, like believing swiy's hallucinations are real, on L.S.D.

[JDreaming]

Originally Posted by DOHP

Well they do to a degree, LSD-25 can be found in ergot fungus, and in Morning Glory Seeds (and other LSA compounds) although LSD-25 is semi synthetic. Although when you think about the process that it takes to extract LSD-25, you could barley call it natural.

This is not really true... Morning Glory seeds contain Lysergic Acid Amides and ergot fungus contain various natural ergotamines.... none of these things is the same as LSD-25. There is no way to extract LSD from Morning Glory seeds (despite what the Anarchist's Cookbook and a certain Temple of Screaming Idiocy will tell you). I'm quite certain actual LSD-25 did not exist anywhere on Earth until 1938.

I've posted before on LSD vs. Salvia threads about the difference in effect... this question has been asked a few times before. The substances simply aren't very easy or useful to compare with each other. Acid is one of the strongest true psychedelics, due to the low dosages and great length and depth of hallucinations... salvia is the most powerful (and probably only) atypical hallucinogen to act through the kappa opioid pathways. They're both extremely powerful and almost totally incomparable with each other.

[TMM]

Originally Posted by twiglet

Sorry swim thought you needed chemilcals to get out the Salvinorin A.
Pure savinorin A, even though natural, is not available unless swiys play with plant ?.

Yes, but Salvinorin A is still the only active compound in the plant. LSD-25 doesn't occur anywhere in nature, only analogues of it. If only it were possible to extract LSD...

Because it's so short and so intense, an equivalent dose of Salvia is likely to be a lot more "intense" than one of LSD. I don't mean literally equivalent doses, I mean what would be considered an average dose for each drug. However, since LSD is so long-lasting, even if it may not be strictly as intense as those 5 minutes of Salvia-space, a weaker trip lasting hours can have much more powerful long term effects. But, as people have already said, there isn't much in comparing the two. It'd be more pertinent to compare Salvia to something like DMT.

[ljfe]

Wouldn't DMT top both LSD and Salvia?

[TMM]

Originally Posted by ljfe

Wouldn't DMT top both LSD and Salvia?

Should do, by a pretty big margin, but it makes more sense to compare Salvia with DMT since they're both smoked and short-lived.

[JDreaming]

True... and yet since both acid and DMT are classic visual psychedelics acting primarily through the 5HT2A receptors, DMT probably still has a lot more in common, in terms of the nature of its effects, with LSD than it does with salvia.

[Twiglet]

Originally Posted by TMM

Salvia is likely to be a lot more "intense" than one of LSD. I don't mean literally equivalent doses, I mean what would be considered an average dose for each drug. However, since LSD is so long-lasting, even if it may not be strictly as intense as those 5 minutes of Salvia-space, a weaker trip lasting hours can have much more powerful long term effects. But, as people have already said, there isn't much in comparing the two. It'd be more pertinent to compare Salvia to something like DMT.

swim disagrees, this thread is for deciding which is stronger salvia or lsd.
so why compare with D.M.T?
and how come you insist on camparing eating LSD, to smoking salvia, which like you say is shortlived.
Salvia is traditionally chewed and lasts longer than 5 mins.
setting Salvia Divinorum alight is like burning your childrens fingers
Say the original owners of the plant

[TMM]

Originally Posted by twiglet

swim disagrees, this thread is for deciding which is stronger salvia or lsd.
so why compare with D.M.T?
and how come you insist on camparing eating LSD, to smoking salvia, which like you say is shortlived.
Salvia is traditionally chewed and lasts longer than 5 mins.
setting Salvia Divinorum alight is like burning your childrens fingers
Say the original owners of the plant

Just saying it might be more appropriate to compare smoked Salvia and smoked DMT, not saying that this thread should be derailed to do just that.

I don't believe Salvia is traditionally chewed, actually, I think it was mainly done by palm infusion, a technique that's not very economical and requires large amounts of the leaf. Anyway, few people chew it, and I doubt that's what the topic creator had in mind.

Also, I don't think the Mazatec shamans would like to be seen as the original 'owners' of Salvia divinorum.

[Twiglet]

Originally Posted by TMM

Also, I don't think the Mazatec shamans would like to be seen as the original 'owners' of Salvia divinorum.

Fair enough, they say they got Salvia Divinorum from the Aztecs, and they say they got it from the gods who told them they must tend to it.
Ok, and smoking it, is now the most common way.Swim used to regularly take LSD especially as a teenager, but never got quite so anxious, scared as with smoking salvia, as he finds it completely overwhelming.where as LSD creeps up on you.
Swim has done DMT a fair few times, but finds it more 'comfortable' than salvia. He thinks salvia is more unpredictable.

[SurferRosa]

Salvia is the most howlingly, terrifyingly beautiful drug SWIM has ever done. If LSD even approaches it... SWIM thinks he may implode through joy.